Off road bumper alternatives/ improve dep angle

[Syr4RinNC]

So one of the problems I tend to have with trail riding/ off roading is hitting and denting the underside of the corners of my rear bumpers. Surprisingly, I do ok with the front bumper.

Im shocked how much rear bumpers are. Im wondering if anyone has come across any alternatives to a full rear bumper/ cheaper alternative to protect their rear bumpers?

Certainly increasing my lift/ tire size will help the departure angle, but Im curious if anyone else has options for rear bumper protection

Thanks

 

[xtremewlr]

Build your own. Mine is still in process.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

Funny - actually the white trim trail is my post covid vacation trip plan after Utah comes off ny’s no travel list

Yea I have seen the off road bumpers can raise the trailer hitch location - haven’t seen to many other options for that

But it’s more I just keep scraping the under side of my rear bumper after rock climbing, mountain trails etc. I guess bigger tires and bigger lift is the solution unless I want to take a break from body filler and painting

 

[xtremewlr]

In my 4runner driving the white rim trail I found that the trailer hitch frequently dragged as I came off of bumps. So, I have been contemplating solutions for this problem. A lift of course comes to mind, but also, just stiffer springs might help. And I am thinking about the air bags that are inserted into the rear springs that can be inflated to add stiffness. If this would work it would be the cheapest solution. I also looked at rear bumpers and it seems that the only rear bumper that actually does much for departure angle is the 4x4 labs rear bumper. I lost interest in that bumper when I figured out that installing it requires cutting the frame. Cutting the frame would eliminate any hope of going back to another bumper.

Another thought about bumpers, it has been pointed out on several threads that these after market bumpers have not been crash tested, And it is likely that installing any of them will reduce the safety of the vehicle. It was this coupled with the amount of highway driving I do that has pretty much convinced me to forget about bumpers and winches.

I can guarantee you that any aftermarket, offroad bumper will out perform either of the factory bumpers in a crash test.

Front bumpers all retain the factory crumple zones and bolt to the factory crash bar location. Air bag sensors and everything else are retained.

Rear bolt on bumpers replace the non existent protection the plastic bumper gives. The factory bolt on hitch bolts to the frames crossmember, which IS THE BUMPER. Bolt on bumper don't change that.

So, IMO and with the above explanation, your theory of them not being crash tested is unfounded.

 

[gimlithepirate]

So one of the problems I tend to have with trail riding/ off roading is hitting and denting the underside of the corners of my rear bumpers. Surprisingly, I do ok with the front bumper.

Im shocked how much rear bumpers are. Im wondering if anyone has come across any alternatives to a full rear bumper/ cheaper alternative to protect their rear bumpers?

Certainly increasing my lift/ tire size will help the departure angle, but Im curious if anyone else has options for rear bumper protection

Thanks

Man, this is like my continuous struggle with the rear bumper. When I did Elephant Hill (southern half of Canyonlands where White Rim Trail is), I drug my hitch all over everything.

In my case, a big part of the culprit was a load + short and soft springs (eibach pro-truck lift). This I fixed pretty quick and easy, and it's helped a lot.

As far as bumpers, a big chunk of the cost is swing outs. They just are not cheap to make. If your handy, the Coastal Off-Road kit isn't bad, and it will raise the tow hitch which helps. I'm kind of partial to True North fabrications solution, which is "cheaper" at 1500$ :help: At least it doesn't weigh a ton getting you right back into the same problem.

Long story short, these rigs just are not optimized for departure angle. If they'd stretched the wheel base a few inches it would improve dramatically, but instead it's optimized for turning radius. The 4runner has one of the best turning radii of any modern 4 door SUV.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

I hate plastic, so my alternative was the quickest, cheapest and the least amount of weight. Probably not much help and the most boring.

 

[Inv4drZm]

The plastic bumpers provide some crumple zone that the steel or aluminum bumpers do not. Can you point to a single scientifically run crash test on any of these after market bumpers? Some member running to a cow and saying his bumper was not damaged is not the same as running the vehicle into a concrete barrier at 50 mph with dummies strapped into the seats and measuring the forces they encountered and judging extent of injury.

Note: Nothing I have said here indicates that these steel bumpers are not as safe or safer than factory, just that they have not been tested and shown to be as safe or safer. This of course means that you cannot make the guarantee you just made.

We all know the plastic bumper "covers" on front and rear don't do anything in a full wreck. Whether or not the steel replacements hurt crash test safety is up for debate (in my mind). What they can do is prevent some cosmetic damage in a wreck and prevent small collisions (deer/offroading) from hurting the vehicle's function and cosmetics.

Another option instead of increasing lift/springs you can increase tire size.

Adjustable length links on the rear axle can stretch the wheelbase an inch or so which would help with departure angle.

 

[gimlithepirate]

Well yes, Elephant Hill is a totally different (awesome) beast. I'm on 33s with (at the time) a 2.25/1 lift, and I really wished I'd had more armor xD

Wanna go back now that I'm setup better.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

I hate plastic, so my alternative was the quickest, cheapest and the least amount of weight. Probably not much help and the most boring.

Definitely have debated just pulling it off

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

The plastic bumpers provide some crumple zone that the steel or aluminum bumpers do not. Can you point to a single scientifically run crash test on any of these after market bumpers? Some member running to a cow and saying his bumper was not damaged is not the same as running the vehicle into a concrete barrier at 50 mph with dummies strapped into the seats and measuring the forces they encountered and judging extent of injury.

Note: Nothing I have said here indicates that these steel bumpers are not as safe or safer than factory, just that they have not been tested and shown to be as safe or safer. This of course means that you cannot make the guarantee you just made.

I'll take my Shrockworks any day after watching this impact at 40 mph. Plastic is not helping you much, if at all. The outer door skin looks like a piece of plastic.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Aht7Sc_J4OU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

i would be impressed if you could show me an equivalent test run with your shrockworks bumper.

lmao It does take away your crumple zone credibility for plastic bumpers. Your opinion is duly noted though.

 

[xtremewlr]

I would be impressed if you could show me an equivalent test run with your Shrockworks bumper.

ARB appears to be one of the only aftermarket manufacturers to actually crash test, in a lab environment, their bumpers. That is, according to this article.

Field Tested... A lot: The ARB Bumper - Expedition Portal

If you are so utterly concerned with the safety rating of aftermarket bumpers, why are you even posting in this thread? You obviously won't purchase or fabricate one for your vehicle. Are you trying to convince people that they aren't safe and they shouldn't do it? If that's the case, go preach that shit elsewhere please. I know I have no interest in hearing it nor do I care. People are free to make their own choices.

 

[xtremewlr]

In my 4runner driving the white rim trail I found that the trailer hitch frequently dragged as I came off of bumps. So, I have been contemplating solutions for this problem. A lift of course comes to mind, but also, just stiffer springs might help. And I am thinking about the air bags that are inserted into the rear springs that can be inflated to add stiffness. If this would work it would be the cheapest solution. I also looked at rear bumpers and it seems that the only rear bumper that actually does much for departure angle is the 4x4 labs rear bumper. I lost interest in that bumper when I figured out that installing it requires cutting the frame. Cutting the frame would eliminate any hope of going back to another bumper.

Another thought about bumpers, it has been pointed out on several threads that these after market bumpers have not been crash tested, And it is likely that installing any of them will reduce the safety of the vehicle. It was this coupled with the amount of highway driving I do that has pretty much convinced me to forget about bumpers and winches.

The plastic bumpers provide some crumple zone that the steel or aluminum bumpers do not. Can you point to a single scientifically run crash test on any of these after market bumpers? Some member running to a cow and saying his bumper was not damaged is not the same as running the vehicle into a concrete barrier at 50 mph with dummies strapped into the seats and measuring the forces they encountered and judging extent of injury.

Note: Nothing I have said here indicates that these steel bumpers are not as safe or safer than factory, just that they have not been tested and shown to be as safe or safer. This of course means that you cannot make the guarantee you just made.

You pretty much contradicted yourself with these 2 posts.

Plastic bumpers do NOTHING to aid with crumple zone effect. They are nothing but decorative covers that will break with the slightest impact and cost a shit ton to replace.

You are really preaching to the wrong crowd here. You do as you will with your vehicle. We don't need another Ralph Nader telling us shit isn't safe.

 

[xtremewlr]

If someone needs a winch they will obviously have to purchase new bumper to hold it. It it is imperative that they improve departure angle they will most likely need to purchase a new rear bumper.

What I want is for people to not make unsubstantiated claims of improved safety.

Do you have some objection to accuracy here?

Now if you read the entire thread you will know that it started as a thread on departure angle, something that I have also had issues with and an interest in.

By all means, continue the conversation but drop the safety bullshit. I don't object to accuracy but I do object to someone like you, invading a thread with all these safety concerns that can't be proven either way.

Yes, I'm concerned with maintaining the safety of my vehicle. I daily drive it, on the freeway. I can and will say that I guarantee my home built aftermarket front bumper is safer that the factory, flimsy crash bar that it replaced. I haven't compromised the factory crumple zone on the frame what so ever. Nor have the air bag sensors been removed. The integrity of the passenger compartment has not been compromised. In fact, it has probably been made safer with the addition of the welded on rock sliders that I installed.

Prove me wrong or convince me otherwise. But create a new thread dedicated to that issue.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

My point is and always has been that your shrockworks bumper has not been tested and the stock bumper has been. If you watched the entire video you saw that the passenger compartment was intact.

All passenger cars sold in this country go through this sort of testing. None of the third party bumpers go through that testing. Therefore, no one knows how safe they are.

And let me make sure you understand that anecdotal evidence does not compare to the results of actual scientific testing.

In your eyes, you are always going to have a safer bumper because it's been tested by the manufacturer by law. And you know that 95% of aftermarket bumper manufacturers cannot make legal claims until they submit it to those safety tests, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Unattainable for most grass roots businesses. This would basically put them out of business. So if you want me to say my bumper is not safer due to lack of testing? So be it.
But, what makes you think my passenger compartment would not be more so intact? Do you have anecdotal evidence to the contrary? I will not make that claim, this was just an opinion, and also my opinion that my air bags will still deploy. I do understand and didn't submit any anecdotal evidence.
You will not change my mind about it being safer than a piece of plastic covering some aluminum bar. I will say again, your opinion is duly noted.

 

[Kwikvette]

 

[bmgreene]

If you're not planning to tow anything, one quick fix to the hitch dragging would be to remove it. I haven't got under the back end of my "new" T4r (just bought a 2008 Limited V8 yesterday that I'll be building into a tank), but I know the hitch reciever on the 2nd gen Tacoma was installed independently from the bumper, a few shared bolt locations, but not hard to pull without moving the bumper; I see no reason to assume they'd have done it differently on the 4Runner.

If you are towing (camper trailer, say) it might be possible to do the remove/reinstall at a campsite but it'd be a lot of trouble to do it.

 

[ktom3001]

I'll take my Shrockworks any day after watching this impact at 40 mph. Plastic is not helping you much, if at all. The outer door skin looks like a piece of plastic.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Aht7Sc_J4OU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Jesus what score did it get? That thing is completely done.
I could see how aftermarket might help you deflect away instead of absorbing so much impact. Whether that's desirable is probably different for every situation.

 

[Old Tanker]

Jesus what score did it get? That thing is completely done.
I could see how aftermarket might help you deflect away instead of absorbing so much impact. Whether that's desirable is probably different for every situation.

That's a win - the car sacrificed itself to save the crew. If the skin hadn't yielded, the G-force of the collision would have been deadly. You need a crumble zone to live. The advantage of the armor is weight - you'll push forward into the other vehicle, turning it into your crumble zone.

 

[ktom3001]

That's a win - the car sacrificed itself to save the crew. If the skin hadn't yielded, the G-force of the collision would have been deadly. You need a crumble zone to live. The advantage of the armor is weight - you'll push forward into the other vehicle, turning it into your crumble zone.

Yeah I worry about that, the other car will have to absorb that energy.
I had a bad day 20 years ago (distracted) and rear ended a honda accord on the freeway. She was probably doing 20 and I was near 40 in my Nissan Frontier pickup when I didn't realize interchange traffic was slowing.
Even with the stock plastic bumper on my truck there was a clear mismatch in height and her entire trunk was literally gone up to the rear glass which shattered and ended up mostly in the bed of my truck.
I was jolted but my airbag didn't even go off because I never hit anything solid. Thankfully everyone was ok but these small cars clearly don't stand a chance against a 4800 lb truck. Add a lift and steel bumpers with sharp angles optimized at off-roading. Another 400-500+ lbs in armor and gear. Not to mention all that weight adds to stopping distance dramatically.
I'm not hating or bashing but it's just something to think about especially if you daily the vehicle.