Off roading suggestions to a Newb

[Morkeleb_theblack]

Greetings.
I have been doing some research, and going blind checking forums, websites and trying to talk to off road shop owners and employees. I seem to not be able to get straight answers.
Here is my setup:

'91 stock 4runner 5 speed v6 3.0 engine

I don't want it to be a traditional "crawler", but a capable off road vehichle. Here is what I'd like, provided money and time were not a factor:

3.4 engine swap
SAS (Will this require leaf springs from a 1st Gen 4runner in the front?)
Rock sliders
Skid plate and under armor
Custom front bumper with winch
Custom rear bumper
I will be towing, and having a fairly sustantial cargo load in rear.
33" mud tires
15" steel wheels (got them coming via mail)
2" body lift - I was told this was needed for the 3.4 engine swap, or to cut a hood scoop which I do not want in case I have to replace hood. Or the other option was to take out support rod under hood and firewall, which I don't want either.

Money and time being a consideration, I cannot safely drive the vehicle now because the tires are bad. They are stock 31's. I figure I can do some light off roading with the current IFS, get the 2" body lift to accomodate the 33" tires (I have the lift kit, just trying to find an installer. I don't have tools at home) Next I would want to get the front SAS, but not sure of cost. Most people I ask about it that can do it, want me to do the SAS, leaf springs (front and rear) all at once. I cannot afford that right now.

The above setup of 2" body lift, 33" tires, 15" steel wheels and everything else stock should get me driving on the street, and light off road trails. Any suggestions on what's next? Since I dont want a traditional "crawler" and want this as my off road/camping vehichle, I'll need to be able to tow and carry cargo in back, so take that into consideration. Also I do not want a monster leaf lift. I know if I go leaf springs it will be lifted anyway, but I want strength over height.

Any help will be appreciated, and forgive me if this has been addressed in various threads before, I'm just tired of researching.

 

[txclimber]

My opinion only, but it seems like you're getting in deeper than you really should. That's a lot of work and money to alter what you've got sitting in your driveway.

I know we get tied to our yota's, but you may be better off cutting bait and starting over.

Sell your truck as is and add 1/4 of what you're looking at spending on some of those mods and you can be much closer to start off with.

example, buy and '85 that already has a solid axle

or buy another truck/4runner that has a 3.4 then all you have to do is the axle.

Or...and I know this flies in the face of most people here, buy one that's already close to what you want: SAS, lift, etc. You're looking at taking on a lot of work here.

Don't want to be a downer here, just another take.

 

[Morkeleb_theblack]

Thanks for the candid reply.

Yes, I know its a lot of money. I got it for 2grand, knowing I'd have to put about another 10k into it.
I love the 2nd generation body style, with the factory rear mounted spare tire. It's hard to find one, believe me I've looked, for a 2nd GEN 4runner that has most of the setup I desire already, that has the right color etc. This will surely be a labor of love.

Expensive, yes. Only thing close I've come to is a 3.4 '93 4Runner, but that one was in Oregon, plus he was asking quite a bit with NO cat. coonverter, and the seats were pretty much to the foam and springs.

 

[BucknutBob]

That 3.4 '93 model would've been a good bet--installing a new hi-flow cat and some salvage yard seats is a paltry price to get what you want. Anyway, just how much actual wheeling have you done? If not much, then you really don't even know what you want yet. Get some used 31's to replace what you have, and go play...a LOT. Find some friends who run trails so you have people who can help when things get difficult, and learn what both you and the truck are capable of--you may be quite surprised at what you can do already. If you eventually decide you still want the SAS, then yes, you should do both the front and the rear at the same time, to give the truck better balance and to fully utilize the capabilities of the new front suspension (and not waste money putting in a stop-gap coil lift to match the front's height). I would recommend doing the suspension before the engine swap, because the IFS creates installation hassles that the solid axle will not. If you get a kit, you will have all the parts up front, instead of piecing together springs from this, steering from that, etc.. But first and foremost, get a feel for the truck BEFORE doing any major mods--you may find that the IFS with a moderate lift will do all that you desire, especially since you're not looking for a serious crawling rig. Best of luck to you, friend!

Oh, and on installing that body lift, go buy a decent socket set and a couple other tools, grab a friend or two, and do it yourself--they're not that difficult.

 

[fourwd1]

I wouldn't jump into a SAS unless you know for sure you want to do serious crawling, and you don't.
A properly built IFS can do some amazing stuff in experienced hands. I've seen it time and time again.

 

[zopperman]

I'd definitely jump into a SAS. and do a 2UZ-FE V8 Swap. Maybe super charge it and run 38" Iroks.






In all seriousness. [MENTION=78031]BucknutBob[/MENTION] is totally right. Get some decent tires, play around before you decide you need a solid axle.

 

[KidVermicious]

That 3.4 '93 model would've been a good bet--installing a new hi-flow cat and some salvage yard seats is a paltry price to get what you want. Anyway, just how much actual wheeling have you done? If not much, then you really don't even know what you want yet. Get some used 31's to replace what you have, and go play...a LOT. Find some friends who run trails so you have people who can help when things get difficult, and learn what both you and the truck are capable of--you may be quite surprised at what you can do already. If you eventually decide you still want the SAS, then yes, you should do both the front and the rear at the same time, to give the truck better balance and to fully utilize the capabilities of the new front suspension (and not waste money putting in a stop-gap coil lift to match the front's height). I would recommend doing the suspension before the engine swap, because the IFS creates installation hassles that the solid axle will not. If you get a kit, you will have all the parts up front, instead of piecing together springs from this, steering from that, etc.. But first and foremost, get a feel for the truck BEFORE doing any major mods--you may find that the IFS with a moderate lift will do all that you desire, especially since you're not looking for a serious crawling rig. Best of luck to you, friend!

Oh, and on installing that body lift, go buy a decent socket set and a couple other tools, grab a friend or two, and do it yourself--they're not that difficult.

I wouldn't jump into a SAS unless you know for sure you want to do serious crawling, and you don't.
A properly built IFS can do some amazing stuff in experienced hands. I've seen it time and time again.

Couldn't say it better than either of these gentlemen. Get out from behind the computer and go get your truck dirty.

 

[YotaLac]

Keep it stock. Get your sliders and protection, some tires, and spend the rest of the money on beer and girls. Gettin stuck with a sweet little blonde aint always a bad thing!

 

[Morkeleb_theblack]

That 3.4 '93 model would've been a good bet--installing a new hi-flow cat and some salvage yard seats is a paltry price to get what you want. Anyway, just how much actual wheeling have you done? If not much, then you really don't even know what you want yet. Get some used 31's to replace what you have, and go play...a LOT. Find some friends who run trails so you have people who can help when things get difficult, and learn what both you and the truck are capable of--you may be quite surprised at what you can do already. If you eventually decide you still want the SAS, then yes, you should do both the front and the rear at the same time, to give the truck better balance and to fully utilize the capabilities of the new front suspension (and not waste money putting in a stop-gap coil lift to match the front's height). I would recommend doing the suspension before the engine swap, because the IFS creates installation hassles that the solid axle will not. If you get a kit, you will have all the parts up front, instead of piecing together springs from this, steering from that, etc.. But first and foremost, get a feel for the truck BEFORE doing any major mods--you may find that the IFS with a moderate lift will do all that you desire, especially since you're not looking for a serious crawling rig. Best of luck to you, friend!

Oh, and on installing that body lift, go buy a decent socket set and a couple other tools, grab a friend or two, and do it yourself--they're not that difficult.

You know, that is a good suggestion.
I've actually looked at some "groups" out here in my area, but looking at the minimal requirement list of gear needed to tag along with those guys is rather lengthy. I'll keep looking for trail buddies.
Thanks for the input, sound advice!

 

[LandCruiser]

Get a Land Cruiser of a Jeep if you want SAS and build off of that platform. It'll be much cheaper in the long run.

 

[Morkeleb_theblack]

Thanks for all of your input.
I've decided to put my delusions of grandeur on hold for the time being, and just make my stock solid.
I'll invest in some good off road 31" tires, make sure my suspension is good, tune the engine, and stock the vehichle with safety equipment such as tow strap, jack etc. and things I may need on the trail. Then try and connect with fellow off roaders in my area (never off road alone right).
I'll play with it for a while, save my money and slowly build from there, starting with sliders, skid plate and other armor.

That way I don't sink thousands into this on things I may not want eventually. Get some experience under my belt and get the Runner dirty!

 

[BucknutBob]

Yeah, there are lots of hard-core groups out there, but there are just as many "family-oriented" or casual wheelers that don't need to run the hardest trails to have fun. Where I used to live, I hooked up with a group of fellow 4Runners every now and then, and we just had relaxing runs on average trails, with the occasional hard-core experiment to see if we could make it. We brought wives, kids, dogs--we stopped for breaks occasionally. Basically, we learned about our rigs, and we had relaxing, fun afternoons. The minimal equipment for the right group should be 4x4 and decent tires--those requiring lockers and winches are doing trails you don't need yet.

 

[Canazes9]

Yeah, there are lots of hard-core groups out there, but there are just as many "family-oriented" or casual wheelers that don't need to run the hardest trails to have fun. Where I used to live, I hooked up with a group of fellow 4Runners every now and then, and we just had relaxing runs on average trails, with the occasional hard-core experiment to see if we could make it. We brought wives, kids, dogs--we stopped for breaks occasionally. Basically, we learned about our rigs, and we had relaxing, fun afternoons. The minimal equipment for the right group should be 4x4 and decent tires--those requiring lockers and winches are doing trails you don't need yet.

Lots of wisdom from [MENTION=78031]BucknutBob[/MENTION] in this thread. This is supposed to be fun! Spending $20K in modifications so I can break $2-4K in parts every couple a runs isn't fun to me!

David

 

[Intruder]

Lots of excellent advice in this thread. I think what it boils down to is if you put better tires on your truck as is then you have a capable truck. If you do all the other stuff to it, then you have a crawler. Wheel it stock first and you'll start to figure out which direction you want to go with it as you learn how to drive off road. You'll also quickly figure out what you want to upgrade first and what can wait for later after you've driven a bunch of trails.

 

[cdthiker]

I think that you would be truely surprised what are trucks will do with a solid set of tires and not being afarid of a little bit of desert pin striping.....

I have had my bone stock yota some places that it never should have been with nothing more then a really good set of AT's.... then again I have put in THOUSANDS of miles off trail in deep deep snow, mud sand rock etc.
you live in cali, ingore all the hard core wanna be's rolling around in jacked up mall crawlers. get on google maps and find the nearest federal land and go explore. Learn how your truck responds to slides, and just how far you can take it in 4x4 and 4x2. Truely understand the limitations of not having a locker.... find some one with a few two straps and go get your self stuck on pupose. you will never know how to avoid a high center intill you have spent an hour digging your self out. This is the best sort of hands on learning. Sure a lot of those people in those groups have a lot of money and nothign better to do then swap out parts on their rigs.... and for every jacked up land cruiser/ jeep/tacoma I have seen.... I have seen a total beater in the middle of nowhere doing just fine


The best MOD you can do, is driver MOD
good luck and take lots of pictures

 

[Morkeleb_theblack]

Thanks all for the advice.
I will keep it pretty much stock. I've got a new set of heavy duty springs in the back now to take care of the notorious "rear end sag", and because I load a lot of gear in the back.
Next are going to be my shocks, because they are toast. Then 32" BFG KM2's. Engine is good, I'll change out air filter, plugs and cables myself.
This set up should last me a while as I get familiar with off-roading and such. Anyone out in my area that wouldn't mind showing a new guy the ropes?

Yeah, having a CB, fire extinguisher, extra fuel, oil, winch and Hi-lift jack as bare minimum for "easy" trails...no thank you.

You've all been great, thanks!

 

[USMCRUNNER]

Great advice on this thread and sounds like you have a solid plan brother. Wheeling stock is a blast and you will learn a lot as you go. I think a lot of people get caught up thinking they need all this crazy stuff to do trails and you don't. You really can go a ton of places in a stock rig and a decent set of tires. You also live in a great state for wheeling. Tons of places to explore. Biggest thing to remember is have fun and tread lightly.