Oil change interval

[Bmnorm2]

But I wonder what changed internally. Some people run 5/30 without issues but that's also something I wouldn't do.

I am saying Toyota is hedging their bet and the recommend OCI is purely based on synthetic vs conventional and nothing to do with the engine internally.

If 5W-30 was only available in synthetic, they would recommend 10k change. However, since 5W-30 is also available in conventional (0W-20 isn't), Toyota is playing it safe and avoiding any potential litigation loop hole.

That's how Toyota's statement reads to me.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

I am saying Toyota is hedging their bet and the recommend OCI is purely based on synthetic vs conventional and nothing to do with the engine internally.

If 5W-30 was only available in synthetic, they would recommend 10k change. However, since 5W-30 is also available in conventional (0W-20 isn't), Toyota is playing it safe and avoiding any potential litigation loop hole.

That's how Toyota's statement reads to me.

Gotcha. Oils and engines are definitely better than the 70s 3K changes but still 10K seems a bit much for me.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Change the oil whenever you want but this is one of the many videos the Car Care Nut says about oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdNCnYHhEm8&t=338s&ab_channel=TheCarCareNut

 

[Quentin]

Change the oil whenever you want but this is one of the many videos the Car Care Nut says about oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdNCnYHhEm8&t=338s&ab_channel=TheCarCareNut

Car Care Nut gives vague recommendations that won’t hurt your vehicle, but they keep his service bay full and people sharing his monetized YouTube videos. He’s preying on fear. We buy Toyota because we want reliable. He preys on that instinct by sowing doubt that just to happens to financially benefit him in two ways. He doesn’t do root cause analysis. He doesn’t have access to data. He doesn’t do controlled experiments to understand the actual wear to the oil. He sees failed engines but he honestly doesn’t even know how they are driven.

I’m a manufacturing quality engineer that actually durability tests engines for a living. I know enough to know that I don’t know enough to make a recommendation on oil change intervals other than listen to what the manufacturer recommends. I’ve seen the abuse that engines can take but even what I’ve done isn’t near what testing the actual design and spec engineers do. My expertise is narrow and I’m cognizant of that.

From a purely pragmatic perspective, this is a 14 year old engine. If it were sensitive to oil changes, we would know by now.

 

[T4R_Canuck]

just my 2 cents on this, not that it matters.

Oil is cheap, engines are not, 90% of the day to day use of my 4Runner would fall under the "severe service" guidelines based on Toyotas own manual.

In summary, I change my oil every 6-7 thousand kilometers (less than 5k miles), or 6 months. I time it as best I can to get it done just before winter, so i'm not stuck changing oil in -35 C in my unheated garage.

I personally don't understand why people push their oil to it's absolute limit. I guess if you're paying someone $100 to do it for you, I can maybe see why you'd avoid doing it more often. In reality, $200-$300/year for oil changes is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the health of your engine. I personally spend roughly $55 on Mobil 1 and a Toyota filter for a full synthetic oil change every 6 months, but I guess we all have our own priorities.

 

[osugsxr]

opcorn:

I use to change it every gas fill up but now its every other.....:ranger:


6-7500 range on both 4runner and audi

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Car Care Nut gives vague recommendations that won’t hurt your vehicle, but they keep his service bay full and people sharing his monetized YouTube videos. He’s preying on fear. We buy Toyota because we want reliable. He preys on that instinct by sowing doubt that just to happens to financially benefit him in two ways. He doesn’t do root cause analysis. He doesn’t have access to data. He doesn’t do controlled experiments to understand the actual wear to the oil. He sees failed engines but he honestly doesn’t even know how they are driven.

I’m a manufacturing quality engineer that actually durability tests engines for a living. I know enough to know that I don’t know enough to make a recommendation on oil change intervals other than listen to what the manufacturer recommends. I’ve seen the abuse that engines can take but even what I’ve done isn’t near what testing the actual design and spec engineers do. My expertise is narrow and I’m cognizant of that.

From a purely pragmatic perspective, this is a 14 year old engine. If it were sensitive to oil changes, we would know by now.

Thank you for this post. With 323K on a 2014 SR5, OCI at 10K with 0w20 synthetic, I am the anecdotal data point that we’d know by now.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

just my 2 cents on this, not that it matters.

Oil is cheap, engines are not, 90% of the day to day use of my 4Runner would fall under the "severe service" guidelines based on Toyotas own manual.

In summary, I change my oil every 6-7 thousand kilometers (less than 5k miles), or 6 months. I time it as best I can to get it done just before winter, so i'm not stuck changing oil in -35 C in my unheated garage.

I personally don't understand why people push their oil to it's absolute limit. I guess if you're paying someone $100 to do it for you, I can maybe see why you'd avoid doing it more often. In reality, $200-$300/year for oil changes is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the health of your engine. I personally spend roughly $55 on Mobil 1 and a Toyota filter for a full synthetic oil change every 6 months, but I guess we all have our own priorities.

You can get your 6.5 quarts of Mobil 1 at Walmart for $35 or less. Quaker State is even cheaper and just as good, some studies say even better in some aspects. Toyota OEM filters off Amazon for $42 for 10 or $4.20 apiece, delivered. So really we’re talking an oil change for less than $39 and 20 minutes of my time. I’d spend more time just getting it to a dealer, let alone the wait and getting it back home. Then there is the issue of minimum wage lube techs stripping the bolts out on your skid plate by zipping them back in with a cordless impact. All that said, I still change at 10K intervals because the synthetic holds up and 95% of our miles are interstate highways.

 

[Pedro367]

Oil change threads are always the same. Just change your oil when Toyota says to or change it early. It's up to you if you want that "peace of mind." These engines aren't blowing up or getting a shorter life because you did a 10k interval. I'd imagine the 99.99% of other 4Runner drivers that aren't on an enthusiast forum are changing it closer to 10k without issue because it's what the dealer and Toyota says. Keep in mind...most car owners aren't car people. It's probably safer to believe a lot of these go over 10k intervals because Karen forgot or doesn't care. I personally run 7500 miles or so because that's a years worth of driving for me. I don't see the reason to do it earlier than that mileage wise, but I won't go over a year.

Now, if this were a KIA forum it may be a different story. Those suckers burn through motors like nobodies business. But, it's not.

 

[02SE]

You can get your 6.5 quarts of Mobil 1 at Walmart for $35 or less. Quaker State is even cheaper and just as good, some studies say even better in some aspects. Toyota OEM filters off Amazon for $42 for 10 or $4.20 apiece, delivered. So really we’re talking an oil change for less than $39 and 20 minutes of my time. I’d spend more time just getting it to a dealer, let alone the wait and getting it back home. Then there is the issue of minimum wage lube techs stripping the bolts out on your skid plate by zipping them back in with a cordless impact. All that said, I still change at 10K intervals because the synthetic holds up and 95% of our miles are interstate highways.

I'm sure his stated prices are in Canada.

 

[DougR]

Car Care Nut gives vague recommendations that won’t hurt your vehicle, but they keep his service bay full and people sharing his monetized YouTube videos. He’s preying on fear. We buy Toyota because we want reliable. He preys on that instinct by sowing doubt that just to happens to financially benefit him in two ways. He doesn’t do root cause analysis. He doesn’t have access to data. He doesn’t do controlled experiments to understand the actual wear to the oil. He sees failed engines but he honestly doesn’t even know how they are driven.

I’m a manufacturing quality engineer that actually durability tests engines for a living. I know enough to know that I don’t know enough to make a recommendation on oil change intervals other than listen to what the manufacturer recommends. I’ve seen the abuse that engines can take but even what I’ve done isn’t near what testing the actual design and spec engineers do. My expertise is narrow and I’m cognizant of that.

From a purely pragmatic perspective, this is a 14 year old engine. If it were sensitive to oil changes, we would know by now.

Have you performed the "Starbucks" durability test? Wife says, "I just have to have a Starbucks coffee right now." This durability test includes run cycles that are about 5-10 minutes long, consisting of a cold start, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, then idle to turning speed, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, slow-turn to join queue 3-5min idling, get drink, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, shut off engine.

Assume 20% of engine starts are trips to Starbucks, 40% are cold starts to Trader Joes (5 miles one-way) and 39.5% are somewhat longer trips (30-50 miles) city/freeway driving, and 0.5% are trips 140 miles one-way on interstate highways... how long does the oil last? Assume ambient temperature range is 40-120 F (Phoenix, AZ).

 

[4oreigner]

He bought his wife a new GX460 and did the first oil change at 1,000 miles and he shows all the metal fragments in the filter. After seeing this I'm all-in on the first one at 1,000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1605&v=ttRIRwIaNd0&feature=youtu.be

And then there's this guy, former head of Nissan's GT-R engine division speaking on intervals. At the price of Costco's 0W-20 one could afford to follow his advice as well.

Change Engine Oil Every 2000 Miles! - YouTube

 

[T4R_Canuck]

You can get your 6.5 quarts of Mobil 1 at Walmart for $35 or less. Quaker State is even cheaper and just as good, some studies say even better in some aspects. Toyota OEM filters off Amazon for $42 for 10 or $4.20 apiece, delivered. So really we’re talking an oil change for less than $39 and 20 minutes of my time. I’d spend more time just getting it to a dealer, let alone the wait and getting it back home. Then there is the issue of minimum wage lube techs stripping the bolts out on your skid plate by zipping them back in with a cordless impact. All that said, I still change at 10K intervals because the synthetic holds up and 95% of our miles are interstate highways.

I agree with ya 100% but i'm going to assume we haven't done the Bald Eagles to Beavers $$ conversion for our pricing, as I'm a Canadian eh.

And yes, I cringe at the thought of some teenage kid taking an impact to my skid plate bolts, drain plug or even oil filter housing.

 

[REKscooter]

i am looking at a 2020 4 runner limited 2 wd it has only 28,000 miles. In viewing the car fax report all oil changes were at 5000 miles except 2 changes which were at 10,000 miles. Are these two changes at higher miles enough to stop me from purchaseing the 4 runner. I am not sure if he towed with it or not .

 

[5thToy]

^ lol

 

[Pedro367]

i am looking at a 2020 4 runner limited 2 wd it has only 28,000 miles. In viewing the car fax report all oil changes were at 5000 miles except 2 changes which were at 10,000 miles. Are these two changes at higher miles enough to stop me from purchaseing the 4 runner. I am not sure if he towed with it or not .

Thing's trash now. Don't bother.

 

[Quentin]

Have you performed the "Starbucks" durability test? Wife says, "I just have to have a Starbucks coffee right now." This durability test includes run cycles that are about 5-10 minutes long, consisting of a cold start, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, then idle to turning speed, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, slow-turn to join queue 3-5min idling, get drink, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, accel to 45, travel 0.25 miles, idle-turn, shut off engine.

Assume 20% of engine starts are trips to Starbucks, 40% are cold starts to Trader Joes (5 miles one-way) and 39.5% are somewhat longer trips (30-50 miles) city/freeway driving, and 0.5% are trips 140 miles one-way on interstate highways... how long does the oil last? Assume ambient temperature range is 40-120 F (Phoenix, AZ).

Hmmm... sounds like you should follow severe service recommendations. Also in the manual.

 

[Quentin]

He bought his wife a new GX460 and did the first oil change at 1,000 miles and he shows all the metal fragments in the filter. After seeing this I'm all-in on the first one at 1,000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1605&v=ttRIRwIaNd0&feature=youtu.be

And then there's this guy, former head of Nissan's GT-R engine division speaking on intervals. At the price of Costco's 0W-20 one could afford to follow his advice as well.

Change Engine Oil Every 2000 Miles! - YouTube

The filter literally caught everything he is telling you to be concerned about. Oil flows outside in. The filter is doing its job. Unless you have so many chips that the filter is plugged up, this is a non-issue.

This also might be the only time that someone has mentioned the 1GR-FE and the VR38DETT in the same breath.

 

[aggrobot]

From a psychology standpoint, sometimes people get defensive about the things in which they are harboring guilt. In the context of this conversation, it’s kinda hilarious to imagine a buncha 4runner bros dying on the 10K-interval hill are deep down, feeling super guilty about not changing their oil more frequently.

 

[DougR]

Hmmm... sounds like you should follow severe service recommendations. Also in the manual.

Yes, I'm certainly on a severe service schedule of 5,000 miles maximum OCI. Never was a doubt about that.

Does anyone perform oil and engine durability testing for the equivalent of 200,000 miles of severe service? I'm thinking a cold start on each cycle and the high number of short runs is cost prohibitive. I think more than a few engine designs that would fail a severe service test.