Oil in Intake and Intake Pipe.

[P40Wolf]

SO, I have done some reading in other threads, and I need to post my own issue so I can get direct answers.


I have a 97 4runner with the auto and 3.4. I had the 3.4 rebuilt in the middle of November. The shop required a break in period of 500 miles, in traffic, below 55mph, and not ragging on the truck as so to break in all the things. I did this, and due to work and stuff, I only finished the break-in and first oil change the weekend of the 12th.
Here is my issue. As of saturday the 18th, there was a single puff of white smoke on start up, early in the morning. No other smells, leaks, signs of burning oil, overheating. Nothing out of place.
The first 500 miles went fine. No oil consumption Oil change went fine. 5.5 quarts including filter. Between the oil change on the 13th and saturday the 18th, there was No oil consumption. Yesterday, in the morning, the oil was checked, and found to be fine. Not low at all. The truck was fine.

After driving 80 miles, the truck started bucking and lugging going up a pass. at Idle, no smoke at all, and only a small puff when you gave it gas. Turn it off however, and start it, and the truck blue a huge cloud of burning oil smoke. Oil was down 1/2 quart. Called a tow truck.

At the shop this morning, the mechanic replaced the PCV valve and the hose. He took the intake pipe off, and we found the resonator boxes and J shaped box on the bottom of the intake pipe. full of oil, easily a 1/4 or more of a quart (the other partial quart escaped via a loose valve cover gasket)

We flushed out the air box, intake pipe, and intake butterfly completely. With all the cleaned up parts installed, the truck started, ran fine, but accelerated poorly before burning out and cleaning the system. Truck again ran fine. Ran fine for another 130 miles at highway speeds before the problem again has started to manifest itself. Oil is again appearing in the intake and intake pipe. Not as severe in the intake. However, near two quarts have gone away, most likely pulled into the intake at high speed and burned.. I had to drive it another 50 miles or else i would have been sleeping in a rather sketchy bit of AZ back country. Truck exhibited all former issues: Low power, puffs of oil smoke on acceleration.

Seriously, Im post rebuild only 800-830 miles. I broke it in correctly, as the shop decreed, and did everything in my power to not void my warranty. In my conversations with the mechanic over the phone, he seems to think there is an issue or blocked line in the PCV/EGR system that is pressurizing things...

I am more than frustrated i am actually curious: What would happen if I blocked the PCV valve off completely. Its the only way for oil to get into the intake.

I am trying to get moved back to Montana. Low on funds, so i really dont have the means of taking it somewhere here in Kingman, or getting it taken back to the shop in Glendale.

I appreciate any and all suggestions...Thanks all.

 

[4runner_dreamer]

Did the mechanic replace the PCV with an OEM one? It's crucial that you use stock when it comes to the vacuum system on these trucks. I had a friend who had his head gaskets replaced and at the same time had a tune-up done (PCV replace with an aftermarket one). A week later he started leaking oil profusely. After diagnosing the truck he had the PCV replaced with an OEM one and hasn't leaked one drop since.. So... Maybe..?

 

[P40Wolf]

Did the mechanic replace the PCV with an OEM one? It's crucial that you use stock when it comes to the vacuum system on these trucks. I had a friend who had his head gaskets replaced and at the same time had a tune-up done (PCV replace with an aftermarket one). A week later he started leaking oil profusely. After diagnosing the truck he had the PCV replaced with an OEM one and hasn't leaked one drop since.. So... Maybe..?

No....the line was not an OEM line... i'll have to look at getting an OEM one then.. That cant be the problem can it? Prior to today, the line was Original, but naturally was a bit brittle.

 

[4runner_dreamer]

Like I said, it may be that simple, or may not. It would be nice though.

I would try getting a new OEM hose with a new OEM PCV.

 

[mmml4]

Seems to me to get that much oil passing through the pcv valve would be piston ring blow by. Have the engine builder do a compression test.

 

[Padre]

My suggestion is that you're under warranty on your new engine so let it be their problem. That's why you went to a shop.

Good luck man.

 

[tonytwopiece]

Seems to me to get that much oil passing through the pcv valve would be piston ring blow by. Have the engine builder do a compression test.

So much this.

Oil getting into the intake in large amounts is NOT good. The builder should do a compression/leak down test to verify the rings are properly seated and holding compression.

Before anything, I'd take it right back to the shop that build it and have a rather lengthy discussion about their liability. Coming from a forced induction background, any oil in the intake is bad news.

Good luck.

 

[JayRolla]

Valve seals could be leaking also. Oil will pool on the top of the piston and blow smoke at startup. Compression/leakdown test should be done like stated.

 

[P40Wolf]

Thanks Guys. The truck is at the engine shop that did the rebuild. I dropped it off via tow on the 22nd. Havent heard back, but it is the holidays. It will be warrantied or else there will be some fiery words had. I appreciate all the input.

 

[P40Wolf]

UPDATE. SO.....I'm not thrilled. I ended up writing up everything about the truck, starting on saturday the 16th... here is an excerpt from that document
"Jan 11th: Arrived at shop at 3:30pm to inquire in person after work, and to retrieve items from 4Runner for work. Introduced to the new mechanic, who I believe is named Brian, who is working on my vehicle, that he just now had a chance to look at. His diagnosis is that Number 3 fuel injector has been spraying full blast the entire time (a theory NOT explored the first time I brought the truck in for the same issue on Dec 21), that the oil has been thinned by fuel, and that carbon debris inside the engine has ruined the PCV valve, causing the engine to pull oil into the PCV system and, the intake. He also informs me that the spark plugs are not the correct plugs for the Toyota 3.4l engine, which requires Platinum, single diode sparkplugs. The plugs he found during his inspection are not correct, to which he says he will take care of it, and make sure that the plugs are replaced with the correct ones. Insisted that I wouldn’t be charged for that.
I was informed that Number 3 fuel injector will need replaced, at $173.00, and that the oil and filter will need changed due to fuel contamination. I attempted to speak to Tanya in the office to get a total price, only to find that she had left for the day. I left a request that she call me the next day with the total cost of the repair.
Jan 12th: Called shop to find out cost, then make decision on when I can afford to pay it. Made contact with Tanya who told me that the 4Runner was already repaired, and that her mechanic was out driving it. Bill was $220.00. I was told I could pick it up the next day.
Jan 13th: Pick up my 4Runner close to 4pm. Office was already closed. One of the mechanics, Johnny, called Tanya to confirm the bill and payment. One of the mechanics, Byron, said it was a Warranty repair, but the phone call confirmed the bill. I spoke to Tanya on Johnny’s cell phone, and was informed as to why she had to leave early, a confirmation on the bill, and was told that the shop had been starting and running the truck often, and that it had been taken out several times, driven quite a distance. If I recall correctly, she said something about 20-30 miles. She told me that she would email me an invoice with the repair breakdown. I paid Johnny the 220 dollars, which was witnessed by my coworker. Placing my hand on the hood of my truck confirmed it was still warm from being driven, but when I got in the 4runner, looking at the trip counter on the truck only revealed 2.6 miles on the clock. The clock at some point had been zeroed after I had dropped the 4Runner off at the shop in December. Unless the mechanic who was driving the truck zeroed the clock, my 4runner had only been driven a short distance.
Driving the truck from Glendale to my lodging in Tempe, the truck drove fine. The 4Runner was parked in the driveway, as a vehicle has been provided for the length of this project.
Jan 16th: I checked the oil in the morning, which was a quart low. The missing quart was replaced, and the truck was driven about 16 miles to test the repair. Truck seemed to be a bit low on power until reaching operating temperature, but still didn’t feel right. Upon returning from the test, the 4Runner was allowed to cool down. I removed the intake tube to inspect the throttle intake. Doing so spilled more oil out of the one of the intake resonators. Oil was drained into a bucket. Inspection of the air filter revealed more oil contamination. An engineer friend looking into the oil cap made note of the extremely heavy carbon buildup that is visible underneath the valve cover, suggesting a potentially serious carbon burn issue, or the possibility that the top end of this engine was not cleaned correctly during the rebuild., or addressed at all, stating the carbon build up like that would be a result of thousands of miles of driving. I was forced to clean out the intake tube of oil, the throttle, Mass Airflow Sensor, and air box. I called the shop at 2:06pm, leaving a message asking for a call back on Monday to discuss the issue."
"Jan 18th: Received call at 8:09 am from Greg at the engine builders, who again told me that they would take care of it, and that the vehicle running LEAN on a cylinder would cause issues. I needed to correct him three times that his mechanic told me the injector was running on full. He was unsure as to why the office had not sent me the invoice for the injector repair, and said that his mechanic probably zeroed the clock when I asked about it. I was told to bring the 4Runner back in so they can take care of it.
At 3:17, at the suggestion of family who utilize his shop, I contacted Jake at Master Technician Inc. Toyota’s Only, in Missoula, Montana. I related to Jake the situation and issues with the truck, to which his response was there should have been warning lights on the dash, Check Engine lights, Misfire codes, and the vehicle would have been running very poorly if one injector was running lean or pouring fuel. I was also informed that, unless direct from Toyota dealership parts are used, the engine will not run properly. Jake also informed me that there is no rebuild “kit” for the 3.4 from Toyota, that all the parts would have to be purchased piecemeal. There is also no timing kit available, only piecemeal parts for the assembly. He said, based on what I have told him, that it sounds like there is an issue with rings. He said that there are 3 rings per cylinder, 2 for compression, one for oil. Jake suggested that a borescope be used to see the inside of the cylinders to inspect if there is ring damage. However, based on what I told him, he believes there is more than one ring issue, and in his experience, there is no way to correctly rebuild a 3.4 liter v-6 short of Toyota doing the job themselves. His own company policy is to not rebuild a 3.4, but to get a Toyota spec short block, or a low mileage unit.
Jan 19th: Called shop at 7:45pm, left message, and also sent an email to The Engine Builders requesting an invoice for the Jan 13th bill of $220, and also a copy of all the invoices, with part numbers, of all the parts that have been put in my truck since November 6th. Requested this information be sent to me by noon of Jan 20th.
Jan 20th: Received the invoice for the Jan 13th repair via email. Date on invoice shows it was created on January 20th, 2016, and that the balance due is $0.00. Repairs show no Oil change charges on ticket, and a charge for a PCV Valve and Hose at $26.38. PCV hose was replaced on Dec 21st, 2015 when the first PCV valve was changed. Still did not receive copies of vendor receipts showing the parts purchased for my vehicle. Called shop at 8.46am to again request copies of these parts.
At 10:01am, I spoke with Chris from Master Tech in Missoula, Montana, asking about their experience with low mileage JDM engines, and getting a 3rd opinion about the injector fault and the check engine lights, to which I was informed that the Flooding Injector would cause the engine to flood out on that cylinder, and NOT want to fire correctly at all. The vehicle, he said, would definitely run rough and poorly if an injector failed, either by dumping two much fuel or too little, and that I would definitely see an engine code and Check Engine light.
At 10:43, spoke to Greg from The Engine Builders, who was inquiring as to when I would be bringing my truck into the shop to be repaired. I asked about when I was going to be able to see the vender receipts, and was told that “We don’t do that. We don’t write out the lists of every single part that goes into an engine.” I pressed again, to which I was told that the shop purchases parts at AutoZone, that they don’t use low quality parts, and that we can put a borescope into the cylinders to see the new parts. The 7 minute conversation with Greg continued to the fuel injector running Lean issue again, to which I again corrected him that his mechanic told me the faulty injector had been pouring fuel. He explained to me how the truck would compensated in the other injectors to make up for the faulty one that was not spraying, even though I told him again that his mechanic told me that the faulty injector was flooding out. When I asked why the engine, as I have been told by two other Toyota Specific mechanics, didn’t throw any Check Engine Lights, I was informed that such an injector problem would only show up “Sometimes”. Greg did confirm that the truck would run roughly and poorly on a lean/failed or Flooding out injector. The conversation furthered to Greg asking if my wife had informed me, during the drop off of the truck on Nov 18th, 2015, that I needed to run a quart of acetone through the fuel system with the gas to clean the system and clear the injectors. I informed him that she did not. Greg then asked how many of these other mechanics and shop owners I have talked to since Monday give their personal cell numbers to their clients. He requested that I bring my truck in so they can repair it, and that they will make it right, and that they will take care of it. I told him I would have the truck towed to the shop on January 21st, as I was not willing to drive it out to Glendale uncase of engine issues that may cause more damage."


Long and the short of this...I am beyond angry. The owner of the shop seriously tried to pawn the issue off on my wife, and is generally being difficult. The truck is back there now, and they are going to inspect it and do compression checks.. They are going to fix it. Period. Or they can buy me a new truck.

BLAH. THis is why I need a garage, so if I break my junk, its my own damn fault.

 

[P40Wolf]

I shouldnt be writing a goddamn thesis paper on my truck and this shop.

 

[Rock_Rat]

UPDATE. SO.....I'm not thrilled. I ended up writing up everything about the truck, starting on saturday the 16th... here is an excerpt from that...THis is why I need a garage, so if I break my junk, its my own damn fault.

Long story but worth reading. This is exactly why so many of us on here, regardless of how much money we have, or time, or even experience choose to do all of our own work. It's a matter of knowing it's done right. Hope you get this figured out...

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

Could be useful in court if it was to come to that. glade they will be repairing your rig,

 

[pluton]

It sounds like that shop doesn't know what they are doing. I would, if in the same situation, and if possible, try to work toward a refund, or even a partial refund, rather than have the incompetents continue to work on it.
Once they goof the mechanics, and then their story doesn't make sense technically, there's no point dealing with them.

 

[zgensler31]

Man totally agree with rock rat.

But I would probably give them this chance, and if it is not running properly, be taking it to a TOYOTA dealer on their dime, and pursuing legal issues if he continued to be a pain.

Simply un acceptable, I know very little about motors, In comparison to a shop owner taking on rebuilds, and I know that that much oil in your intake has nothing to do with injectors, and is pretty much only coming from excessive blow by....

I hope all works our for you, but if it doesn't take him to court bro. You got your case right there in that post.

 

[P40Wolf]

Guess who now has a melted head gasket/cracked intake/overheating engine that only ever reads normal temp, never leaks or boiled over.

I wrote up this little diddy, if you all want to read a novel..
Aggressive Tread: Why I need a garage...

I am getting a lawyer.

 

[P40Wolf]

UPDATE: So, after being told that it was the PCV system, the number three fuel injector running heavy or lean, the engine being "overheated" Head gasket "Melted" and that "I can't find anything wrong with the motor", 38 days of getting my chain yanked.. The shop has finally agreed to give me my money back after finding the issue.


The No. 3 piston head is 1:1000s of an inch TOO ****ING SMALL.

The shop owner, a charlatan by the name of Greg Perry, of course blamed his mechanics, blamed me, etc, before telling me that my completely disassembled engine could be put together in 3 days, and that i would be 100% satisfied with it, and if something happened he's take care of it, regardless that i would be in Montana, 1200 miles away from the shop, all fighting the fact that he is a goddamn liar and cheat.

Well, I am getting my truck back, my money back, and already have a used engine at the toyota only shop back home in Missoula thats getting re-sealed, timed and set for plug and play ease of install.....

Days are looking up.

 

[diverscale]

UPDATE: So, after being told that it was the PCV system, the number three fuel injector running heavy or lean, the engine being "overheated" Head gasket "Melted" and that "I can't find anything wrong with the motor", 38 days of getting my chain yanked.. The shop has finally agreed to give me my money back after finding the issue.


The No. 3 piston head is 1:1000s of an inch TOO ****ING SMALL.

The shop owner, a charlatan by the name of Greg Perry, of course blamed his mechanics, blamed me, etc, before telling me that my completely disassembled engine could be put together in 3 days, and that i would be 100% satisfied with it, and if something happened he's take care of it, regardless that i would be in Montana, 1200 miles away from the shop, all fighting the fact that he is a goddamn liar and cheat.

Well, I am getting my truck back, my money back, and already have a used engine at the toyota only shop back home in Missoula thats getting re-sealed, timed and set for plug and play ease of install.....

Days are looking up.

oh . my . god.

Hope everything will be fine with this. The engine transplant seems like a much better idea here.

But I would not worry, these engines are good for a million KM, good chances that this used engine will serve you well. I would not think twice about buying a used engine if my original engine would be done for any reason. And an engine transplant is so much more simple than a rebuild.

 

[P40Wolf]

oh . my . god.

Hope everything will be fine with this. The engine transplant seems like a much better idea here.

But I would not worry, these engines are good for a million KM, good chances that this used engine will serve you well. I would not think twice about buying a used engine if my original engine would be done for any reason. And an engine transplant is so much more simple than a rebuild.

The shop here at home in Montana, Master Tech, Toyotas Only, does fantastic work. Should have brought the truck back home to montana before any of this ever happened....
anyway, they found me a 72K mile engine that was not a JDM import. apparently a local truck that had a tree fall on it... anyway, they did all the seals, timing, water pump, etc.
All i have to put on is the two upper intake bits, flywheel and then drop it in and hook it up. My friend who's a toyo guru says 6 hours, tops.

 

[AntonioCm1983]

I live close to that area of the shop that f'd up the motor I'm so sorry to hear how badly you were treated and how incompetent the shop was sad thing is most shops do that to the owner didn't want to think his own employees were that bad so owner a d employees blame the customer and it goes back and forth its not right had my fare share of sane issues with shops I really hope that its back up and running good since you went back to Montana that is exactly why we all rebuild our own motors

The shop here at home in Montana, Master Tech, Toyotas Only, does fantastic work. Should have brought the truck back home to montana before any of this ever happened....
anyway, they found me a 72K mile engine that was not a JDM import. apparently a local truck that had a tree fall on it... anyway, they did all the seals, timing, water pump, etc.
All i have to put on is the two upper intake bits, flywheel and then drop it in and hook it up. My friend who's a toyo guru says 6 hours, tops.