Panhard Bar Drop Purchase or Fabricate?

[Yoter]

I will be installing a lift shortly and I am trying to get all the small items together to complete the lift.
I do not have any welding equipment and have very limited welding/fabrication knowledge. SO if I buy the Toytec Panhard bar drop I will have to pay someone to install it. Would it be better/cheaper to just have someone fab it up from scratch?
What should I expect to pay to have the Toytec one installed?

I know there is another thread about fabricators in the Bay Area, but thought I would check here as well. I am located in Berkeley and if anyone has a recommendation of someone who could do this for me I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[csp]

How much lift? Many have 3"+ without a panhard drop or adjustable panhard bar.

 

[Yoter]

How much lift? Many have 3"+ without a panhard drop or adjustable panhard bar.

I will be installing 890's so about 3" lift, I understand its not 100% necessary but I daily drive my 4runner and want to have the suspension geometry as close to stock as possible. [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION] did the drop when running 890's and with his engineering knowledge and experience, I trust that if he did it its probably a good idea to do the same

 

[psraff]

I have one I never used from Toytec. I bought the Adjustable Panhard Bar after I bought this.

If you want it, pay shipping and it's yours. You should get someone for $50 weld it on for you (unless they're dicks like some up here and want to charge you $100+ to do basic work).

I'll dig it out and have it ready if you want it. Haven't seen it for a few years but I'm pretty I know where it's at.

 

[Yoter]

I have one I never used from Toytec. I bought the Adjustable Panhard Bar after I bought this.

If you want it, pay shipping and it's yours. You should get someone for $50 weld it on for you (unless they're dicks like some up here and want to charge you $100+ to do basic work).

I'll dig it out and have it ready if you want it. Haven't seen it for a few years but I'm pretty I know where it's at.

Thank you so much for the generous offer!

 

[csp]

Mine served as DD for two years w/891s and I never noticed a difference without it, feeling wise or visually. You'd need a tape measure to see that the rear axle isn't centered.

 

[4-Ripcord]

Both the drop bracket and the extended bars have pros and cons. Each impact stability and roll differently.

When you lift the rear end, the panhard bar is no longer horizontal. This means that there will be more noticeable side-side movement of the axle when going over bumps. This can make the vehicle feel unstable. Also even when just parked it pulls the axle more to the right side of the vehicle because it is the hypotenuse of this triangle.

-With the Extended bar, the axle is returned to the center of the truck. The downside is that you will still notice the increased side-side movement when going over bumps. This option also leaves the roll center height relative to CG unchanged (compared to a lifted truck with stock panhard).

-With the drop bracket, the bar is returned to horizontal and re-centers the axle. With the bar horizontal again, the side-side movement over bumps is similar to how the truck was stock which is good for stability. The downside of the drop bracket is that it increases the relative distance between the CG and roll center. This means that the truck will feel like it wants to roll over more than it would with the extended bar.

Seeing as how most users will expect the truck to take lots of bumps but not necessarily a corner, I feel that the drop bracket is the best option.

 

[4-Ripcord]

Regarding the initial question of the thread..

I think that the toytec one is overpriced for what it is. IF you have the means to make one, that will be much cheaper. However most people do not so the premade bracket is best.

 

[BigRyan1986]

I have one I never used from Toytec. I bought the Adjustable Panhard Bar after I bought this.

If you want it, pay shipping and it's yours. You should get someone for $50 weld it on for you (unless they're dicks like some up here and want to charge you $100+ to do basic work).

I'll dig it out and have it ready if you want it. Haven't seen it for a few years but I'm pretty I know where it's at.

Did [MENTION=82289]Yoter[/MENTION] pick this up from you? If not i have 2 buddies (both with 3rdgens that have the driveline hitting the gas tank) that need one. So if you can find it get back to me and ill pick it up from you, Or if you can post some pics and measurements so we can make one that would be awesome.

 

[snivilous]

Did [MENTION=82289]Yoter[/MENTION] pick this up from you? If not i have 2 buddies (both with 3rdgens that have the driveline hitting the gas tank) that need one. So if you can find it get back to me and ill pick it up from you, Or if you can post some pics and measurements so we can make one that would be awesome.

Get a piece of channel iron with 1/4" wall that fits around where the bar bolts in, drill two holes 3" apart, cut to length. ???. Profit.

 

[psraff]

Did [MENTION=82289]Yoter[/MENTION] pick this up from you? If not i have 2 buddies (both with 3rdgens that have the driveline hitting the gas tank) that need one. So if you can find it get back to me and ill pick it up from you, Or if you can post some pics and measurements so we can make one that would be awesome.

I'll dig it out tonight (try to). Have to paint a door also and other stuff. I'll post pics and measurements either way whether he takes it or not. I have a bit of stuff, just can't sell and make a profit due to shipping from AK....

 

[BigRyan1986]

Get a piece of channel iron with 1/4" wall that fits around where the bar bolts in, drill two holes 3" apart, cut to length. ???. Profit.

Thanks ill pass that info on to them.

I'll dig it out tonight (try to). Have to paint a door also and other stuff. I'll post pics and measurements either way whether he takes it or not. I have a bit of stuff, just can't sell and make a profit due to shipping from AK....

Awesome thanks man. Too bad this thread wasn't up 2 weeks ago when i was in juneau. I could have saved on shipping lol.

 

[seank]

Both the drop bracket and the extended bars have pros and cons. Each impact stability and roll differently.

When you lift the rear end, the panhard bar is no longer horizontal. This means that there will be more noticeable side-side movement of the axle when going over bumps. This can make the vehicle feel unstable. Also even when just parked it pulls the axle more to the right side of the vehicle because it is the hypotenuse of this triangle.

-With the Extended bar, the axle is returned to the center of the truck. The downside is that you will still notice the increased side-side movement when going over bumps. This option also leaves the roll center height relative to CG unchanged (compared to a lifted truck with stock panhard).

-With the drop bracket, the bar is returned to horizontal and re-centers the axle. With the bar horizontal again, the side-side movement over bumps is similar to how the truck was stock which is good for stability. The downside of the drop bracket is that it increases the relative distance between the CG and roll center. This means that the truck will feel like it wants to roll over more than it would with the extended bar.

Seeing as how most users will expect the truck to take lots of bumps but not necessarily a corner, I feel that the drop bracket is the best option.

This was helpful. Thanks, [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION]! I personally still have no idea which route I want to go, but at least I better understand the pros and cons.

 

[psraff]

I should get mine mailed out to you today...

Also for the others....

 

[D Farms]

I prefer the lift bracket, the only real disadvantage is you have to be running bump stop extensions so the bar doesnt hit the frame. I feel like most people are though.

 

[BigRyan1986]

I should get mine mailed out to you today...

Also for the others....

Well that dont look too hard to make

 

[Yoter]

I prefer the lift bracket, the only real disadvantage is you have to be running bump stop extensions so the bar doesnt hit the frame. I feel like most people are though.

Does installing it as a lift bracket effect the angle the axle moves during suspension articulation?
I was reading through this old thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/111673-pan-hard-lift-bracket.html ,The OP here mentions something about the axle moving toward the passenger side (which I understand is normal) but I wasn't sure if he was saying this was effected by the PHB lift.

[MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION], Sorry for the million and one suspension questions, but is there a reason you chose to do a drop rather then a lift?

 

[D Farms]

the panhard lift centers the axle because the panhard will be parallel with the axle instead of at an angle. what he was saying is that the axle moves to the passenger side when you lift it.

the only real disadvantage is that if you make it too large it can hit the frame.

another thing that happens is when the axle compress it swings farther out toward the compressed side, which actually makes it more stable in turns and off camber, however it can cause issues with drive shaft clearance. these two issues are dependent upon the height of the bracket and can be solved with longer bump stops. the drop bracket does the opposite, the axle tucks farther into the body on the compressed side, which is less stable, but it also increases drive shaft clearance(for the gas tank skid) and there is no clearance issue with the bracket so no bump stops are needed for any height of bracket.

it is possible to do a hybrid drop and lift bracket, but its twice the ammount of work, but you could fine tune the panhard height.