Passenger rear wheel out of alignment??

[richamc01]

I took my runner to Firestone to get an alignment since I have their lifetime alignment service (seriously considering switching to discount tire). I just got my vehicle back about 10 minutes ago.



They told me that they could not perform the alignment on the front because the rear passenger wheel's toe angle is -3.35 degrees out of alignment. They didn't offer me any solutions as to what would be the cause of this. They only said, "take it to a frame shop".



I do have a lift installed



Front:

Bilstein 5100 Height Adjustable Shocks (24-248730)

Toytec Front Lift Coil Springs (112-620)

Toytec Differential Drop (TAC-DR)



Rear:

Bilstein 5100 Long Travel Rear Shocks (9602E703)

Stock Land Cruiser 8 Wrap Rear Coils



I will note that I do not have a pan hard drop bracket or an adjustable pan hard bar installed. I am having eimkeith’s pan hard correction kit ( https://www.toyota-4runner.org/for-sale-suspension-wheels-tires/230779-fs-eimkeith-pck-panhard-correction-kits-3rd-gen-$89-4th-5th-gen-$93-50-a.html ) welded in place on the 12th of this month. I have another alignment scheduled for the 13th of this month.



Do you think the pan hard bar could be the cause of this? Upon visual inspection of the wheel, I can clearly see the wheel sitting in the wheel well at an angle. The front of the tire protrudes further out of the wheel well than the rear. I attempted to take a photo of this but I’m not sure how well you can tell.



Are there any other potential causes for this? I am headed outside to take the wheel off and check things out, but I wanted to get this posted up first.



I’ve attached a few pictures and the alignment sheet from Firestone here.



Please let me know what you think. I have family coming into town on the 16th of this month and I really need the runner to be drivable. I will post back with anything I find after getting the wheel off. TIA!

 

[Bad Luck]

I took my runner to Firestone to get an alignment since I have their lifetime alignment service (seriously considering switching to discount tire). I just got my vehicle back about 10 minutes ago.

They told me that they could not perform the alignment on the front because the rear passenger wheel's toe angle is -3.35 degrees out of alignment. They didn't offer me any solutions as to what would be the cause of this. They only said, "take it to a frame shop".

I do have a lift installed

Front:
Bilstein 5100 Height Adjustable Shocks (24-248730)
Toytec Front Lift Coil Springs (112-620)
Toytec Differential Drop (TAC-DR)

Rear:
Bilstein 5100 Long Travel Rear Shocks (9602E703)
Stock Land Cruiser 8 Wrap Rear Coils

I will note that I do not have a pan hard drop bracket or an adjustable pan hard bar installed. I am having eimkeith’s pan hard correction kit (https://www.toyota-4runner.org/for-sale-suspension-wheels-tires/230779-fs-eimkeith-pck-panhard-correction-kits-3rd-gen-$89-4th-5th-gen-$93-50-a.html)welded in place on the 12th of this month. I have another alignment scheduled for the 13th of this month.

Do you think the pan hard bar could be the cause of this? Upon visual inspection of the wheel, I can clearly see the wheel sitting in the wheel well at an angle. The front of the tire protrudes further out of the wheel well than the rear. I attempted to take a photo of this but I’m not sure how well you can tell.

Are there any other potential causes for this? I am headed outside to take the wheel off and check things out, but I wanted to get this posted up first.

I’ve attached a few pictures and the alignment sheet from Firestone here.

Please let me know what you think. I have family coming into town on the 16th of this month and I really need the runner to be drivable. I will post back with anything I find after getting the wheel off. TIA!

Wow! That's a lot of toe! Judging by the total difference in toe (4.08 degrees) you have a bent axle housing. If it were upper/lower control arms out of alignment the axle total toe difference would still be close (usually within a degree). If it were rear wheel bearings it would be more likely to show as camber and would make a roaring noise while driving. A bent axle shaft would be causing a crazy tire wobble that you would be able to see. My $$$ is on a bent axle housing.

 

[pokeyman]

Was the truck in an accident before?

 

[Coward]

Yea, something is way off. How long have you owned it? How long since you installed the lift components? It has to be driving wicked like that!

 

[richamc01]

Wow! That's a lot of toe! Judging by the total difference in toe (4.08 degrees) you have a bent axle housing. If it were upper/lower control arms out of alignment the axle total toe difference would still be close (usually within a degree). If it were rear wheel bearings it would be more likely to show as camber and would make a roaring noise while driving. A bent axle shaft would be causing a crazy tire wobble that you would be able to see. My $$$ is on a bent axle housing.

How can I determine if the axle housing is bent?

Was the truck in an accident before?

The truck was rear ended a few months back. This was not a major accident and only the driver side was damaged.

Yea, something is way off. How long have you owned it? How long since you installed the lift components? It has to be driving wicked like that!

I have owned the truck since 2013. I put the lift on in May of 2018. After the lift I got an alignment and everything was great. I get in it to drive one day (a few weeks ago) and I notice the rear end had significant body roll and in order to drive straight, I have to hold the wheel turned about 1/4 of a turn to the right. Not sure how the alignment got off, but this is why I needed an alignment to begin with.

I assumed the body roll was caused by the pan hard bar needing the correction kit installed so I wrote it off as that. Now that I have visually seen the crooked wheel, I know the body roll is being caused by this.









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[pokeyman]

I think you have a bent frame

 

[richamc01]

I think you have a bent frame

No, that’s definitely not it.


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[Hopeless Diamond]

Where was the vehicle parked? I bet somebody backed into the tire and bent the axle.

 

[richamc01]

Where was the vehicle parked? I bet somebody backed into the tire and bent the axle.

It was parked on the street and it was parked in the same spot for a long time. This is kind of what I’m thinking happened. How hard is it to bend an axle housing? I would think something substantial would have to be hit.


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[IBallEngineer]

It was parked on the street and it was parked in the same spot for a long time. This is kind of what I’m thinking happened. How hard is it to bend an axle housing? I would think something substantial would have to be hit.



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It isn't hard to bend a housing under certain conditions. I owned and operated a Body/Frame Shop for 14 years, and I saw plenty. One of the most common things is getting pushed in to a curb, damage on driver's side but the rear wheel/tire pushed against the curb will bend the axle. That said it isn't super hard to straighten it if you know how, kind of a lost art due to liability issues. I did them for a long time, not anymore. Unless it was mine and I had a good porta power and some chain and possibly some large i beam steel.

Probably easier for you to score a used axle though.

:cheers:

 

[BrianK14]

Wow. That tires not gonna last long. Agreed that’s its most likely a bent axle housing. I’ve got a rust free non-locker bate housing. And a pair of axles. PM me if you determine you need any of these parts

 

[richamc01]

Wow. That tires not gonna last long. Agreed that’s its most likely a bent axle housing. I’ve got a rust free non-locker bate housing. And a pair of axles. PM me if you determine you need any of these parts

I appreciate it, but I have an elocker and I don’t have the spare time to modify a non-elocker housing.


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[richamc01]

I haven't been able to get the wheel off just yet due to living in an apartment complex and having limited tools here (no garage), but at this point, I'm not sure getting the wheel off would show me anything anyway. I believe that the axle housing is bent as you guys have pointed out. I found a complete axle assembly with the factory e-locker locally for $800. To make sure the new rear end gearing matches the front, this price also includes the matching front differential. I also need to install new CV axles while I'm at it and the same person has these as well for $60.

I think I am going to snag this up while it is available. Now my questions about this...

1. What other components should I replace while doing this swap?
a. I am planning to install new bushings in the upper and lower control arms and new bushings on the pan hard bar.
b. My axle seals were leaking before this happened and I already have the parts to replace the seals and the wheel bearings on order.
c. I will be rebooting the CV axles that I buy from this guy and swapping these out.
d. When I installed the lift a year ago, I installed all new tie-rod ends, so I know these are good. I also installed new poly tie rod end bushings and sway bar bushings.
e. I have all of the parts needed to replace the rear brakes. When I attempted this repair is when I noticed my leaking rear axle seals. The rear brakes will be new.

2. Should I have new gears installed in both differentials while they're out and accessible?

3. Should I go ahead and do upper and lower ball joints on the front?

4. Anything else you can think of?

5. Since I live in an apartment complex with no garage, is the truck safe to drive to a location where I can do the repairs, in its current condition?

 

[richamc01]

Bump


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[pauldub]

Whether or not it's safe to drive would depend upon how far and how fast you're going to drive it. You could drive 30 mph for a long ways, probably not far doing 80.

 

[St Runner]

I would do the repairs in 2 parts First do a spin test on your 4runner and then the new axle. Almost all the e-locked axles are 4.3. If they are both the same then concentrate on doing the rear first. Pull the axles out of the new rear end and bring them to someone who has done this before. Its critical you have someone press the new bearings and retainers to spec otherwise you will be chasing this for a while, just read up about this on this site. The brakes and control arm bushings can be done by yourself, not that hard. Change out the inner axle seal (use toyota parts if you want it to last), pop the axles in and install the whole axle. When you get the rear replaced if it has right gear ratio you can take your time with the front

 

[Bad Luck]

I haven't been able to get the wheel off just yet due to living in an apartment complex and having limited tools here (no garage), but at this point, I'm not sure getting the wheel off would show me anything anyway. I believe that the axle housing is bent as you guys have pointed out. I found a complete axle assembly with the factory e-locker locally for $800. To make sure the new rear end gearing matches the front, this price also includes the matching front differential. I also need to install new CV axles while I'm at it and the same person has these as well for $60.

I think I am going to snag this up while it is available. Now my questions about this...

1. What other components should I replace while doing this swap?
a. I am planning to install new bushings in the upper and lower control arms and new bushings on the pan hard bar.
b. My axle seals were leaking before this happened and I already have the parts to replace the seals and the wheel bearings on order.
c. I will be rebooting the CV axles that I buy from this guy and swapping these out.
d. When I installed the lift a year ago, I installed all new tie-rod ends, so I know these are good. I also installed new poly tie rod end bushings and sway bar bushings.
e. I have all of the parts needed to replace the rear brakes. When I attempted this repair is when I noticed my leaking rear axle seals. The rear brakes will be new.

2. Should I have new gears installed in both differentials while they're out and accessible?

3. Should I go ahead and do upper and lower ball joints on the front?

4. Anything else you can think of?

5. Since I live in an apartment complex with no garage, is the truck safe to drive to a location where I can do the repairs, in its current condition?

1) Since you already have a 4.30 front differential then why swap in another 4.30 front differential?

2)If you're going to re-gear then now would be the time to do it.

3)If they need replacing then replace them. Depends on how old and how hard you've wheeled if you need to replace the LBJ. It's a lot cheaper to do both LBJ's than it is to have them fail on you while driving.

4)Nope

5)Drive slow and avoid highway/freeway.

 

[richamc01]

1) Since you already have a 4.30 front differential then why swap in another 4.30 front differential?

2)If you're going to re-gear then now would be the time to do it.

3)If they need replacing then replace them. Depends on how old and how hard you've wheeled if you need to replace the LBJ. It's a lot cheaper to do both LBJ's than it is to have them fail on you while driving.

4)Nope

5)Drive slow and avoid highway/freeway.

The main reason I was planning to change out the front differential is that I was contemplating having both of them rebuilt before the swap.

I was more interested in people's opinion of having the differentials rebuilt completely, rather than just changing the gears.

Has anyone had good or bad experiences with rebuild kits? any recommendations on a brand or supplier?

I don't have any plans to run anything larger than 33's so I don't think changing the gear ratio is necessary. Opinions?

 

[3bears]

I don't see a need to change ratios if sticking with 33's or smaller
if I was dong upper and lower control arm bushings, I would do the ball joints too

 

[richamc01]

I don't see a need to change ratios if sticking with 33's or smaller

if I was dong upper and lower control arm bushings, I would do the ball joints too

This is what I was thinking as well. I'm trying not to think too much into this Swap, but I certainly do not want to have to rip it apart again.

I'm thinking I'll have only the rear differential rebuilt as the donor vehicle had 220K. I think the front differential will be fine as I'm sure it didn't get much use since the donor vehicle was driven by an older lady.


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