Petition for Diesel?

D

Dr. John

New member
With the introduction of low sulpher diesel fuel in June of 2006, do you think there would be any value in starting a petition to Toyota to seriously consider offering a turbo-diesel option for the 2007 model year?

I believe that this would be the right time to do this and would give Toyota time to make whatever adjustments would be necessary to their production lines, if they were to do this.

I'm interested to know how many people would support such a petition and also whether you believe that Toyota would be responsive to it, or if we'd just be "spinning our wheels."

What do you think?
 
Register to hide this ad
If I recall right, Toyota uses Renault diesels a lot in Europe.

At present, the US is importing a lot of diesel fuel from Europe. That is what has held the diesel price so high.

Get ready for a flood of diesel offerings in the US. EPA is modifying its rules to be similar to those found in Europe. This will make it easier for carmakers to offer diesels here. In addition, there are a few new technologies, which will further reduce the particulate pollution, which has hampered their use in the US. The 2007 low sulfur diesel rules will also make the offering of the European high tech diesels capable of running here. Anyway, expect a lot of new diesel offerings here in the US over the next 3 years.

Hybrid is a stopgap measure on the way toward hydrogen. In reality, diesel is a much better way to bridge the gap. On average, gas would have to sell for over $8/ gallon for a hybrid to make economic sense. Diesels, on the other hand, sell for a small premium over gas (except for big fat trucks that is).
 
The Mercedes E320 diesel version gets 36 MPG and its performance is almost identical to the gasoline version. Does that not seem to indicate that it is perfectly possible to have excellent performance with great economy, plus the advantages of high torque for towing etc.? Nissan has just announced that their trucks and SUVs will be diesel powered next model year. Is Toyotay listening?
 
The VW V10 diesel is a fine offering too. We own a VW Jetta with a diesel engine. Runs like a champ. Can't wait for the low sulfur to come here, then much higher diesel performance will come too.
 
Dr. John said:
Nissan has just announced that their trucks and SUVs will be diesel powered next model year. Is Toyotay listening?
Click to expand...
Read this then try again:

http://www.autosite.com/content/research/index.cfm/action/showArticle/aid/139235

In what may go a long way toward cementing the future staying power of hybrid-powered vehicles, Nissan today unveiled a prototype of the 2007 Altima Hybrid, a hybrid vehicle based on the Altima mid-size sedan. The car is scheduled to be launched in 2006 for the US market.


Nissan is the fifth major automaker to either introduce a hybrid to the US market or announce plans to do so; the first automaker is generally credited as Honda - with the Insight two-seater hybrid, followed by Toyota with the first mass-produced hybrid, the Prius.The technology behind Prius has powered Toyota's hybrid plans and, in fact, will play a part in launching the Altima hybrid. According to Nissan, In September 2002, Nissan and Toyota signed a basic agreement stipulating that Nissan will produce 100,000 hybrid vehicles within a five-year period, and that Toyota will supply the hybrid system components (transaxle, inverter, battery, and control unit). Nissan will develop the engine and unit adaptation.


The Altima prototype model is the first completed by Nissan under the agreement. With the Altima hybrid, Nissan hopes to offer consumers a sedan with V6 power and fuel efficiency that betters many compact vehicles. And while most hybrid vehicles place a premium on fuel economy, Nissan's primary focus seems to be on acceleration and performance - with increased fuel savings and environmental efficiencies. Nissan hopes to begin production of the Altima hybrid in 2006, for the 2007 model year.

Nissan is also developing diesel engine technologies mainly for European market, and continuing the R&D of fuel cell vehicles for the future.
Click to expand...
 
Auto makers are turning to hybrid engines to attain high mileage figures for in town use. Out on the highways though, diesels rule. Let's also look at long term cost. Diesels will last nearly forever. Run a hybrid for a few years then replace the battery pack. Some dealers here in Dallas have priced the battery packs at over $3,000. That's a lot of diesel or gas. Just how long does your cellphone battery keep it's original charge? Show me a battery that is worth a crap after three years of use.

Have a look at the real world mileage for the Ford Escape Hybrid and Lexus 330 Hybrid. Nothing to write home about.

For every dollar it costs to produce a gas auto engine, it costs $1.10 for a diesel and $1.85 for a hybrid.

Yes, trim the weight of a vehicle to that of a Coke can and use a hybrid engine and use it in town only and you have a viable option. One that will reward an owner with fantastic mileage. Just don't get in the way of some fat pickup running a stoplight.

Drive hard, carry weight, off-road, cross-country, tow a trailer, etc... and hybrids fall far behind diesels.

I drove an electric car in the 1970's. So, I'm not new to this idea. Back when Honda had a little motorcycle engine in their cars.
 
Last edited:
Seriously, I hate to always be the nay-sayer in these threads, but I doubt a petition will accomplish anything revolutionary.

Toyota has produced diesel variants of the 4Runner and their other SUVs overseas since the beginning. If they saw noteworthy benefit in making diesels readily accesible to the North American market, they could have easily imported said vehicles years ago. With Toyota focusing on being at the forefront of hybrid development, and pushing VERY hard for near-zero emission vehicles, now would seem an even more unlikely time to be introducing diesels to North Am than, say, 10 years ago.

That said, if you feel strongly that this is the right direction, why not? Nothing ventured nothing gained. Perhaps they will reply with their logic on the matter.
 
With diesel costing more then gas and the fact that some States don't allow diesels to be sold there, it is going to be a tough sell.

Koz
 
When I bought my 4Runner I received a customer satisfaction request from Toyota. It was then that I expressed my interest in a diesel. Then when I signed-up for the Toyota owners website, I again expressed my interest in a diesel.

Petition? Why not just send them an email?

There is an ongoing argument over hybrid v. diesel. The market and manufacturers will decide the matter for us.

However, there is a move by politicians to tax high mileage cars because they are not paying their fair share of the gasoline road tax.

One additional consideration will be the new diesel electric designs. Used for decades in trains, we will see this option used in tractors and trucks. Very efficient.
 
My parents have owned three diesels in the past. Volvo, VW, and an Oldsmobile 88. We would never own one again. The noise was terrible in stop & go traffic but better when maintaining a constant speed. And then there was a lack of pick-up. This was a long time ago. But when I was in England recently on business; I rode in several diesel cars that made no more noise than a petrol engine and they had great pick-up. If the US had these types of engines, then yes I believe more people would buy them. But I think the older US diesels have given people like me a scar. Personally I am enjoying the lovely benefits of my T4R
 
It is hard to compare the auto diesels of old with the current crop of offerings. But then, having to listen and smell the diesels offered in today's fat pickups, I'd dislike them too. It is just that I have seat time in the modern diesels, and one would be hard pressed to find their performance different from a gas engine. Except for their mileage anyway.

I have a Mercedes diesel with about 500,000 miles on it. Still going, though a bit slow now. Works great as a buddy car for visitors. Sits for months, then starts and runs great. We also bought a 2001 VW Jetta diesel for my son. 37 MPG in and around Dallas, and has over 135,000 miles on it now. It is this first hand experience with well made diesel engines that led me to send emails to Toyota requesting their sending diesels here.

Honda is working on some high performance diesels for the Euro market. Or so I have heard.
 
Diesels


There is a great potential for diesel-powered vehicles, but those smoke-belching engines soured most members of the public to them. Of course, the newer diesel engines bear little or no similarities with the dinosaurs of yesteryear.

The VW TDI and the late-model Mercedes engines are just two examples of how smooth, quiet and torquey an oil burner can be! For trucks, just drive a Ford (Navistar) PowerStroke, Dodge Cummins diesel truck or a Chevy/GMC with a Duramax (Isuzu) diesel engine. You'll be impressed at the power, economy and abundant torque from these manageable beasts.

The MAIN reason that diesels are less popular here is the price of fuel. In the USA, we tax diesel fuel at a much higher rate than gasoline. In Europe, diesel is taxed much less than gasoline. Also, with it being so expensive, the Europeans are much more concerned with miles per gallon than are we Yanks.

I can't say I want a diesel in my personal vehicle (as I am a professional truck driver by trade and put about 1000 miles a week on my company's International 4700), but I am not totally opposed to the idea if I found one that was quiet and smooth enough.

 
Re: Diesels

Jeff Kleb said:

The MAIN reason that diesels are less popular here is the price of fuel. In the USA, we tax diesel fuel at a much higher rate than gasoline. In Europe, diesel is taxed much less than gasoline. Also, with it being so expensive, the Europeans are much more concerned with miles per gallon than are we Yanks.
Click to expand...
Emissions are going to deciding factors as well. The newest crop of gasoline engines put cleaner air out their tailpipes than the average air in a metropolitan area.....cleaning the air while they drive.

Take the new 3.5L V6 in the Avalon; 270hp, tons of torque, smooth/quiet as any current motor, 39 (Canadian) mpg on the highway, AND a ULEV2 rating (basically 0 emissions).

Passenger car diesels still have a looooong way to come to compete with motors like that.....particularily if gas/diesel prices stay close in North America.
 
I just got back from France. We rented a brand new VW golf TDI. What a sweet car that was to drive. It got over 900Km on a tank. It had lots of torque and was peppy enough to keep up to the high end sports cars on the speedways. That was fun. I was even even quieter than 4runner.


Coming back to Canada I really wish Toyota brought out a diesel.
On side note I can't figure out why Toyota is so large. I saw maybe two or three toyotas....... tops. I was there over a month. Lots of MBs, BMWs, Audi,VW and Peugeots though.
 
Last edited:
Maybe toyota will put out a diesal, now that they own a portion of FUJI industries. Besides the Subies, they make diesal equipment right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

Total: 310 (members: 3, guests: 307)

Forum statistics

Threads
278,309
Messages
3,554,066
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Share this page

Trending content

Back
Top