Petition for Diesel?

[JungleJim]

Re: Diesels

The MAIN reason that diesels are less popular here is the price of fuel. In the USA, we tax diesel fuel at a much higher rate than gasoline. In Europe, diesel is taxed much less than gasoline. Also, with it being so expensive, the Europeans are much more concerned with miles per gallon than are we Yanks.

I agree. I remember when diesel was less expensive than gasoline. But some in the government wanted to discourage the use of diesel, thus the higher taxes.

How about a petition to congress to make the taxes on diesel equal with gasoline.

 

[RL Lemke]

Toyota diesel engine. I want one of these.

Straight 6 - 8 liter.

1.Variable Nozzle Turbocharger:
VNT turbochargers optimize airflow by changing the turbocharger

 

[RL Lemke]

Honda Diesel

TOKYO -- Honda Motor Co. is developing diesel engines for large light-duty vehicles in the United States.

Honda CEO Takeo Fukui says Honda's diesels, already used in Europe, do not meet U.S. and Japanese emissions rules "at a reasonable cost."

"But in the near future, it will be possible" to meet those regulations, Fukui told Automotive News in an interview here. He declined to specify how soon.

 

[RL Lemke]

California Diesel Tech

Clean diesel is an evolutionary systems-based process that combines advancement in diesel engines, cleaner burning diesel fuel and emissions control systems, all working and optimized together producing 80 percent fewer emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) than those systems produced just a decade ago.

As a result, communities and government agencies across the country- including the State of California- have embraced clean diesel technology as a solution to reducing emissions.

Near Zero Emissions on the Horizon

In addition to the advances already made in clean diesel technology, the diesel industry continues to work hard to eliminate the key pollutants associated with all diesel engines, demonstrating the diesel industry's commitment to being part of the solution in improving the nation's air quality. In 2007, engine makers will virtually eliminate emissions from new trucks and buses and in 2014, off-road equipment will have near-zero emissions.

 

[Northof49]

Re: Re: Diesels

I agree. I remember when diesel was less expensive than gasoline. But some in the government wanted to discourage the use of diesel, thus the higher taxes.

Because it is worse for emissions.....no big mystery.

Like my example of the Avalon's motor above; there is not a diesel engine on the planet that you could transplant into an Avalon and do all those things. Let alone do all those things and keep the cost reasonable.

Again, if Toyota thought there was a large enough market to make diesels profitable for them in North American, they would have been here years ago, as Toyota already makes excellent diesel engines.

 

[RL Lemke]

Diesel Electric use in California and elsewhere.

Eaton's Innovative Technology Produces Hybrid Electric Powertrain Eaton's hybrid electric powertrain effectively combines a diesel engine and electric motor to drive the vehicle. A computer determines the most efficient combination, depending on current operating conditions and driver demand. A four-cylinder engine replaces the six-cylinder version currently used in the FedEx Express W700 delivery vehicle. The engine size is reduced because of the added power provided by the electric motor. A particulate trap has been added to the truck to further reduce emissions.

Lithium-ion batteries capture and store energy during the "regenerative braking" phase of the vehicle's operation, providing a source of stored electric power for the motor during future acceleration. Therefore, all electrical charging of the battery is provided by the hybrid electric powertrain, and no external electrical infrastructure, such as a power cord or electrical outlet, is needed. This balance between conventional and electric technology is an innovative method to improve environmental performance and decrease fuel use while eliminating the need for high electrical-demand infrastructure costs. The hybrid electric truck's operating characteristics will remain virtually unchanged from that of a conventionally powered FedEx Express vehicle. Eaton's hybrid electric powertrain has been placed in the standard white FedEx Express W700 delivery truck, which utilizes a Freightliner chassis. The hybrid electric delivery vehicle will be differentiated from the standard FedEx Express delivery vehicle only by an OptiFleet brand decal on the sides and rear of the vehicle. The hybrid electric E700 has a gross vehicle weight of approximately 16,000 lbs. and a cargo capacity of approximately 670 cubic feet.

 

[RL Lemke]

The per gallon Federal Motor Fuel Excise Tax is 18.4 cents on gasoline, 13.6 cents on LPG, 24.4 cents on diesel fuel, 18.4 cents on gasohol, 19.4 cents on aviation gas, and 4.4 cents on jet fuel. These monies go to the Federal Highway Trust Fund.


Diesel trucks impact our roads more, thus a higher tax. Get ready though, as I reported above, the feds are eyeing a supplemental tax on high mileage cars as they figure they don't pay their fair share of the cost of roads.

As for cars and light trucks (eg: 4Runner) the 6 cent additional fuel cost is made-up for many times with the increased mileage.

Maybe jet fuel (Diesel #1) is the way to go.

 

[Northof49]

Re: Diesel Electric use in California and elsewhere.

Auto makers are turning to hybrid engines to attain high mileage figures for in town use. Out on the highways though, diesels rule. Let's also look at long term cost. Diesels will last nearly forever. Run a hybrid for a few years then replace the battery pack. Some dealers here in Dallas have priced the battery packs at over $3,000. That's a lot of diesel or gas. Just how long does your cellphone battery keep it's original charge? Show me a battery that is worth a crap after three years of use.

Eaton's Innovative Technology Produces Hybrid Electric Powertrain Eaton's hybrid electric powertrain effectively combines a diesel engine and electric motor to drive the vehicle. A computer determines the most efficient combination, depending on current operating conditions and driver demand. A four-cylinder engine replaces the six-cylinder version currently used in the FedEx Express W700 delivery vehicle. The engine size is reduced because of the added power provided by the electric motor. A particulate trap has been added to the truck to further reduce emissions.

Lithium-ion batteries capture and store energy during the "regenerative braking" phase of the vehicle's operation, providing a source of stored electric power for the motor during future acceleration. Therefore, all electrical charging of the battery is provided by the hybrid electric powertrain, and no external electrical infrastructure, such as a power cord or electrical outlet, is needed. This balance between conventional and electric technology is an innovative method to improve environmental performance and decrease fuel use while eliminating the need for high electrical-demand infrastructure costs. The hybrid electric truck's operating characteristics will remain virtually unchanged from that of a conventionally powered FedEx Express vehicle. Eaton's hybrid electric powertrain has been placed in the standard white FedEx Express W700 delivery truck, which utilizes a Freightliner chassis. The hybrid electric delivery vehicle will be differentiated from the standard FedEx Express delivery vehicle only by an OptiFleet brand decal on the sides and rear of the vehicle. The hybrid electric E700 has a gross vehicle weight of approximately 16,000 lbs. and a cargo capacity of approximately 670 cubic feet.

:twak:

 

[Northof49]

Diesel trucks impact our roads more, thus a higher tax. Get ready though, as I reported above, the feds are eyeing a supplemental tax on high mileage cars as they figure they don't pay their fair share of the cost of roads.

Right now our government is actually GIVING us money for buying hybrid vehicles.....$2,000 from the feds on a Hybrid Highlander, for example.

 

[RL Lemke]

Right now our government is actually GIVING us money for buying hybrid vehicles.....$2,000 from the feds on a Hybrid Highlander, for example.

Yes, there are tax incentives here too. But, that dosen't stop the government here from wanting to stick it to drivers in the other end.

 

[RL Lemke]

4Runner diesel mileage in the UK

The UK version of the 4Runner that is.

Diesel Models - fuel consumption and Co2 emissions figures
Model
MPG - Urban
MPG - Extra Urban
MPG - Combined
CO2 emissions
(g/km)

Land Cruiser Colorada 3.0 D-4D 4-speed Auto. x2
22.1 = 18.42 US
31.4 = 26.17 US
27.2 = 22.67 US
279

 

[Northof49]

Re: 4Runner diesel mileage in the UK

The UK version of the 4Runner that is.

Diesel Models - fuel consumption and Co2 emissions figures
Model
MPG - Urban
MPG - Extra Urban
MPG - Combined
CO2 emissions
(g/km)

Land Cruiser Colorada 3.0 D-4D 4-speed Auto. x2
22.1
31.4
27.2
279

1stoff, if those are UK ratings, those are different "gallons" than US Gallons. So for direct comparison, a V6 4x4 4rth gen 4Runner rates at 21 city, 28 highway in UK gallons (which Canada also uses). My V8 Ltd consistantly gets 24-25mpg on the highway using UK ratings.

2nd, I would looooove to see the difference in acceleration numbers. Considering some people already complain their 4rth gen V6's and V8's could have more power, is anyone realistically willing give up a pile of passing power for 3 highway miles per gallon? And in turn give up the extremely smooth and quiet operation of the current gas motors?

 

[RL Lemke]

Since this is just thinking, as Toyota doesn't offer a diesel here anyway, here is what I would like to see offered. Either a V8 or V10 twin turbo diesel. The V10 in the Toureg was a stump puller that would snap your head against the headrest upon acceleration. While many said they averaged 23 mpg with the V10, most got a little less than that. Imagine having that V10s 550 foot pounds of torque.

Until the US switches over to the ultra low sulfur diesel, we won't see the high perofrmance diesel engines. Just the de-tuned ones that can take our fuel.

In the mean time, I am very pleased with my V8 4Runner. Quiet, smooth, and tugs my motorcycles over the mountains with ease.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Toyota Diesels


I should have thought of it before, but Toyota does actually make medium- and heavy-duty engines under the Hino nameplate. Hino trucks are in service in almost every city, but you just never notice them. They resemble the UD (Nissan), Fuso (Mitsubishi), Isuzu (GM) and Iveco (Fiat) style of truck.

They are not the most powerful beasts in the world, but are excellent trucks for urban deliveries.

As for more diesel fuel being used in the USA, there are emissions and tax-related reasons.


http://www.hino.com


P.S. #1 diesel fuel is not jet fuel, as someone mentioned earlier. Jet fuel is closer to kerosene in its nature and is often known as Jet-A. Smaller planes (Cessna, etc.) typically use aviation gasoline - leaded gasoline with very high octane ratings.

 

[Koz]

Get ready though, as I reported above, the feds are eyeing a supplemental tax on high mileage cars as they figure they don't pay their fair share of the cost of roads.

I doubt this will ever happen; it would be a career decision vote for any politician.

Koz

 

[greasefingers]

Get ready though, as I reported above, the feds are eyeing a supplemental tax on high mileage cars as they figure they don't pay their fair share of the cost of roads.

I read about that on CNN. I think it was the DOT who said there was not enough federal money to repair the HWYs, so they are asking for an additional 18 cents tax increase on gas. Now I know some of my Taxes that I pay every year on the my 1040 goes into that fund already.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

That is a huge myth that there is not "enough money" to build or repair highways in this great nation. We definitely pay enough in fuel, road use & excise taxes, but the problem is that the politicians spend it on other pet pork barrel projects.

State and federal taxes (per gallon of fuel) have more than doubled during the past two decades, but they simply waste the funds on other things and then cry the blues when it comes time to fix, maintain, resurface or repair existing roads - let alone trying to build new ones.

Anyone over 30 should realize that our "Highway Trust Fund" is controlled by many of the same chaps who handle the mythical "Social Security Trust Fund." A lockbox is not too handy when everyone in Washington has their own key!



P.S. Don't fall for the nonsense about trucks not paying "their fair share" for road damage, either! Diesel is taxed at a higher rate (per gallon) than gasoline, large trucks get less fuel mileage -- much less -- per gallon than do cars; and also are charged much, much more for registration & permit fees.

<< END OF RANT >>

 

[Uneek]

That is a huge myth that there is not "enough money" to build or repair highways in this great nation. We definitely pay enough in fuel, road use & excise taxes, but the problem is that the politicians spend it on other pet pork barrel projects.

State and federal taxes (per gallon of fuel) have more than doubled during the past two decades, but they simply waste the funds on other things and then cry the blues when it comes time to fix, maintain, resurface or repair existing roads - let alone trying to build new ones.

Anyone over 30 should realize that our "Highway Trust Fund" is controlled by many of the same chaps who handle the mythical "Social Security Trust Fund." A lockbox is not too handy when everyone in Washington has their own key!



P.S. Don't fall for the nonsense about trucks not paying "their fair share" for road damage, either! Diesel is taxed at a higher rate (per gallon) than gasoline, large trucks get less fuel mileage -- much less -- per gallon than do cars; and also are charged much, much more for registration & permit fees.

<< END OF RANT >>

I whole heartedly agree with you Jeff. Putting an additional tax on high mileage cars is total BS and nonsense. Since tax is charged by the gallon, those who drive more consume more gas, thus pay more. It's not like those who drive more magically get an extra 100 miles per tank. The government just needs to trim the fat and stop wasting tax dollars. Simple pothole repairs takes a crew of 6-8, two actually digging and shoveling, while the rest just stand their like statues.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

I whole heartedly agree with you Jeff. Putting an additional tax on high mileage cars is total BS and nonsense. Since tax is charged by the gallon, those who drive more consume more gas, thus pay more. It's not like those who drive more magically get an extra 100 miles per tank. The government just needs to trim the fat and stop wasting tax dollars. Simple pothole repairs takes a crew of 6-8, two actually digging and shoveling, while the rest just stand their like statues.


Yeah, but they need four guys to supervise the one working.
:bash:

 

[greasefingers]

I guess then I will not bring up one of the latest brain-farts