Please explain the different 4x4 systems in the 5th gens to a newb.

[condoor]

I'm considering getting a 4runner and I'm a bit confused as to which models have which transfer cases/4x4 systems. I live in Colorado in the foothills outside of Denver and would prefer something with a full time 4wd option, that also has 4H, and 4L - is there such a beast? FYI - I'm an experienced four wheeler and have owned and modified a half dozen jeeps. I do not plan on modifying the 4runner, but appreciate things like rear lockers. However - full time 4wd and safety on the highway is more important to me.

1) I like the trail edition quite a bit, but I'm I right in thinking that it just has 4H, 4L, and 2H?

2) My wife has a 2005 Highlander and there is no way to turn off the traction control. Our driveway is long (3/4 mile) and hilly, and when there is snow and you need to get on it, some times it feels like the traction control is actually working against you. Do the 4Runners have a way to turn this off?
(for example I have a button on my Subaru to turn VSC off, and then I can blast through the snow)

3) Is the 5th Gen V6 equivalent power to the 4th gen V8? I plan on pulling a trailer with RZR and dirt bike from Denver to Moab (across divide) twice a year. Total weight trailer and all will be < 2000#.

 

[LandCruiser]

Only the Limited has a full time 4WD.

The SR5 and TE have 2HI, 4HI, 4LO without a center diff and can't be run all the time/on dry surfaces inb 4HI since they don't have a center diff.

The V6 has been tuned to torque and hp figures close to the old V8.

 

[1engineer]

I'm considering getting a 4runner and I'm a bit confused as to which models have which transfer cases/4x4 systems. I live in Colorado in the foothills outside of Denver and would prefer something with a full time 4wd option, that also has 4H, and 4L - is there such a beast? FYI - I'm an experienced four wheeler and have owned and modified a half dozen jeeps. I do not plan on modifying the 4runner, but appreciate things like rear lockers. However - full time 4wd and safety on the highway is more important to me.

1) I like the trail edition quite a bit, but I'm I right in thinking that it just has 4H, 4L, and 2H?

2) My wife has a 2005 Highlander and there is no way to turn off the traction control. Our driveway is long (3/4 mile) and hilly, and when there is snow and you need to get on it, some times it feels like the traction control is actually working against you. Do the 4Runners have a way to turn this off?
(for example I have a button on my Subaru to turn VSC off, and then I can blast through the snow)

3) Is the 5th Gen V6 equivalent power to the 4th gen V8? I plan on pulling a trailer with RZR and dirt bike from Denver to Moab (across divide) twice a year. Total weight trailer and all will be < 2000#.

Read the link in my signature on 4WD operation. If you have any questions then do not hesitate to ask.

 

[DaPersianRug]

Read the link in my signature on 4WD operation. If you have any questions then do not hesitate to ask.

I hadn't noticed that link in your sig before. Excellent tutorial, thanks.

 

[Jeremy556]

1) Covered by Greg's signature link
2) Yes, you can turn off the traction control
3) Sort of, it needs a lot more revs to make power. It will have no problem whatsoever pulling 2000lbs across the front range.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

3) Is the 5th Gen V6 equivalent power to the 4th gen V8? I plan on pulling a trailer with RZR and dirt bike from Denver to Moab (across divide) twice a year. Total weight trailer and all will be < 2000#.

On paper, the V6's specs are close to the 4.7 V8, but if you drive both back to back, the difference is huge. My wife has a 2006 Gx470 (essentially a v8 4th Gen) that I drive a few times a week, and the v8's driving characteristics are so much better the my 5th Gen's v6. I think there are a couple reasons for that.

1. More Torque. At any speed, any RPM range, it just takes just a little blip of the throttle, and the V8 gets up and goes. If you really step on it, you will get thrown back in your seat, and hear a beautiful sound! With the v6, you have to floor it if you need to get it anywhere. The worst is when you are cruising at around 40mph in 5th. Less then 50% throttle application will get you slow weak feeling acceleration in 5th gear, and you have to give it 50% plus to get it to downshift and get decent acceleration.

2. Trans Shift Points. The GX470 and 4th Gen v8's transmissions aren't programmed for fuel savings, like the 5th Gens, they are programmed for drivebility. Downshifts are instant, come at the slight application of throttle, and when you want them. The gears are held for a reasonable amount of time. The 5th Gen always wants to put you in 5th gear, and never seems to shift when you want it to, unless you apply 50%+ throttle, and once you let up, it will go back 5th gear. Sadly, the 5th Gen's Sport Mode really only allows you to control the highest gear it will go in. It doesn't change the shift points to something more aggressive, like a true sport mode should. With the GX470, there is no sport mode, but it isn't necessary because you can easly get it into the gear you want with throttle control, unlike the 5th Gen, where you need to Man-Handle it to get it in the gear you want.

I think the 5th Gen's V6 has plenty of power, but it is the Fuel-Efficient shift points that make it feel slow, and annoying to drive at times. That being said, I have no experience towing with either, but I know there are plenty of people who do on this forum.

 

[WODWorldWide]

I live in Denver and have traveled in every snow we've had this year and I have never slipped unless I was accelerating in 2wd. I switch it to 4wd to get traction and then back to 2wd and the thing stays responsive even with the stock Dunflops.

The only time I feel really sluggish is getting up to Dillon area or heading back. You really have to get on it to get it up to speed going to Eisenhower Tunnel East. But other than that, I have been extremely happy with the 4R in Colorado. Way better than my 2wd Sr5 in the snow.

 

[N2GLOCK]

Interesting reading within the link. Does the 4WD SR5 have an "open" type rear diff or locking? I've always been curious as to what I have.

 

[Jeremy556]

Interesting reading within the link. Does the 4WD SR5 have an "open" type rear diff or locking? I've always been curious as to what I have.

Open

 

[eddiebx]

Interesting reading within the link. Does the 4WD SR5 have an "open" type rear diff or locking? I've always been curious as to what I have.

Should be an open diff in there straight from the factory...only the TE has the factory installed rear locker.

 

[TheLast13]

Should be an open diff in there straight from the factory...only the TE has the factory installed rear locker.

there was/is no LSD's?

 

[H&KRunner]

On paper, the V6's specs are close to the 4.7 V8, but if you drive both back to back, the difference is huge. My wife has a 2006 Gx470 (essentially a v8 4th Gen) that I drive a few times a week, and the v8's driving characteristics are so much better the my 5th Gen's v6. I think there are a couple reasons for that.

1. More Torque. At any speed, any RPM range, it just takes just a little blip of the throttle, and the V8 gets up and goes. If you really step on it, you will get thrown back in your seat, and hear a beautiful sound! With the v6, you have to floor it if you need to get it anywhere. The worst is when you are cruising at around 40mph in 5th. Less then 50% throttle application will get you slow weak feeling acceleration in 5th gear, and you have to give it 50% plus to get it to downshift and get decent acceleration.

2. Trans Shift Points. The GX470 and 4th Gen v8's transmissions aren't programmed for fuel savings, like the 5th Gens, they are programmed for drivebility. Downshifts are instant, come at the slight application of throttle, and when you want them. The gears are held for a reasonable amount of time. The 5th Gen always wants to put you in 5th gear, and never seems to shift when you want it to, unless you apply 50%+ throttle, and once you let up, it will go back 5th gear. Sadly, the 5th Gen's Sport Mode really only allows you to control the highest gear it will go in. It doesn't change the shift points to something more aggressive, like a true sport mode should. With the GX470, there is no sport mode, but it isn't necessary because you can easly get it into the gear you want with throttle control, unlike the 5th Gen, where you need to Man-Handle it to get it in the gear you want.

I think the 5th Gen's V6 has plenty of power, but it is the Fuel-Efficient shift points that make it feel slow, and annoying to drive at times. That being said, I have no experience towing with either, but I know there are plenty of people who do on this forum.

my truck feels like a completely different beast if i drive with it in S/4. shifts are clean and crisp, plenty enough power on demand, revs quickly. i often leave it in S/4 driving around town and under 50mph.

 

[eddiebx]

there was/is no LSD's?

The only thing I recall is on the 4x2 models there is this option which is called "auto LSD", but I think that's more like a faux LSD which mimics a real LSD by using the brakes...the differential inside should still be an open differential.

 

[Jeremy556]

there was/is no LSD's?

No mechanical LSD. TRAC and ATRAC can brake a spinning wheel to transfer torque to the wheel that is not spinning.

 

[TheLast13]

No mechanical LSD. TRAC and ATRAC can brake a spinning wheel to transfer torque to the wheel that is not spinning.

I had no idea there wasn't a LSD.

Thanks.

 

[Canazes9]

No mechanical LSD. TRAC and ATRAC can brake a spinning wheel to transfer torque to the wheel that is not spinning.

Expanding on that...

TRAC only works in 4hi and while it does allow a modest amount of slippage, any significant wheelspin will activate the ignition retarding feature to prevent wheelspin.

ATRAC operates in 4lo and functions as a strong Limited Slip diff. In practice it works better than any mechanical LSD I've ever used and it works on both front and rear axles. Wheel spin is NOT limited and you can spin the tires w/ abandon. VSC is also disabled in 4lo so you will not be troubled w/ ignition retarding hp.

ATRAC works full time in 4wd when activated EXCEPT when being used in conjunction with the rear locker on the TE. When used while the rear locker is locked, ATRAC has no effect on the rear axle (obviously) and only works at speeds of 4mph or slower on the front axle. Above 5mph the front becomes an open diff again WHEN THE REAR LOCKER IS LOCKED.

Hope that helps.

David

 

[eddiebx]

On paper, the V6's specs are close to the 4.7 V8, but if you drive both back to back, the difference is huge. My wife has a 2006 Gx470 (essentially a v8 4th Gen) that I drive a few times a week, and the v8's driving characteristics are so much better the my 5th Gen's v6. I think there are a couple reasons for that.

I have no factual basis for this but, I think the main reason our trucks "feel" slow is because of they way they programmed our gas pedal to throttle angle ratio to be really low and non-linear; ie. press the pedal 25% = 10% throttle angle, pedal 50% = 20% throttle angle...pedal 75% = 50% throttle angle. To me the gas pedal most certainly does not feel linear at all, and the reason you need to floor it to go anywhere is because that's the only way to get the ECM too actually want to open up the throttle plate wide open. So basically it feels like we're mashing the pedal all the time, but in reality the actual throttle angle is barely open, lol.

So while I'm sure the V8s are bound to be a little snappier, I think it's not the main reason why you feel such a huge difference. Like you said, on paper the numbers are pretty close, so final gearing differences aside, it's probably pretty close in speed on paper too

The mind is a very easy thing to trick when it comes to perception of speed, do you remember back in the days when we had physical throttle cables, and if you tightened up the slack, it feels more responsive? It absolutely does not change anything in the engine's actual power output, yet the feeling is there for sure. Placebo effect?

 

[Canazes9]

I had no idea there wasn't a LSD.

Thanks.

Don't let the terminology confuse you - the 4wd 4runner's have LSD's, they are just not mechanical. In use, there is no practical difference between having the braking forces applied to the axle with brake pads vs methods that use mechanical components within the differential.

There are some advantages/disadvantages to each system. Brake pads are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than diff clutch packs. The ELSD works to transfer power properly from the wheel that slips to the wheel with grip, even when a tire is completely off the ground and making no contact - some of the Eaton mechanical LSD's won't work in those situations.

When ATRAC is employed in 4lo the LSD for both front and rear axles is better/stronger than any LSD I've ever used. ATRAC isn't equal to a locker, but it works really well! The ELSD's are also selectable, meaning you can turn them on and off at will.

Finally, the ELSD's can be adapted to most any diff w/ proper brake controller and ABS - this means you can have the wide range do LSD functions AND a locker if you wish. You can buy the TE w/ the electrical activated rear locker or purchase an SR5 or Limited and have the ARB air locker added to front and/or rear axles (front ARB can be added to TE as well).

In my experience, front lockers are of limited use - the combination of rear locker (Like on the TE) and ATRAC makes for a VERY capable trail rig.

David

 

[Canazes9]

I have no factual basis for this but, I think the main reason our trucks "feel" slow is because of they way they programmed our gas pedal to throttle angle ratio to be really low and non-linear; ie. press the pedal 25% = 10% throttle angle, pedal 50% = 20% throttle angle...pedal 75% = 50% throttle angle. To me the gas pedal most certainly does not feel linear at all, and the reason you need to floor it to go anywhere is because that's the only way to get the ECM too actually want to open up the throttle plate wide open. So basically it feels like we're mashing the pedal all the time, but in reality the actual throttle angle is barely open, lol.

So while I'm sure the V8s are bound to be a little snappier, I think it's not the main reason why you feel such a huge difference. Like you said, on paper the numbers are pretty close, so final gearing differences aside, it's probably pretty close in speed on paper too

The mind is a very easy thing to trick when it comes to perception of speed, do you remember back in the days when we had physical throttle cables, and if you tightened up the slack, it feels more responsive? It absolutely does not change anything in the engine's actual power output, yet the feeling is there for sure. Placebo effect?

I think the 4Runner gas pedal is linear (or close to it) - 50% pedal = 50% throttle. The vast majority of vehicles sold in this country have non linear throttle response - 50% pedal = 90% throttle. You will hear people say "I give it just a little gas and it FLYS! I've still got half the pedal left! In reality, they don't - they are essentially at full throttle.

The effect is the same as what you were saying - you have to press the pedal more in the 4runner to get the same effect, but the non linear response is the over aggressive throttle response of most other vehicles. Traditionally, the higher end European cars used to be set-up with linear throttles like the 4Runner and it wasn't uncommon to hear someone complain that his European sports car that he payed so much money for was slower than his XXX... I haven't driven a new BMW, Porsche or Mercedes in 15 years, so I don't know if that's still the same or has changed.


David

 

[N2GLOCK]

So I guess it's safe to say that the 4WD SR5 pretty much blows for any kind of serious off-roading. I was alway curious to know what the deal was w/ the rear diff but always scared to find out and that's why I never really researched it. I really wanted a trail but couldn't afford it at the time. Oh well...