Please help!!

R

romen1

New member
Hello everyone , I'm new to this site and forums in general if i have posted in the wrong section please don't mind.

I have a 1997 Toyota 4runner SR5 5 Speed MT i recently took it to a toyota dealership to have it serviced. I had the transmission fluid flushed and replaced. After driving it for about 500 Kms ( 310 miles ) my truck has started making a a whining sound and sometimes it pops out of first and second gear making a huge thump sound. I looked back to the paper work they gave to see if they had used the proper fluid. I found that they used Dexron3 ATF Part # 000092-10029 this is where i have my concerns since my truck is a 5 Speed Manual transmission i know that a lot of cars and trucks which are 5 speeds use ATF but after searching for hours i have found nothing saying if this is correct or not .

Help is greatly appreciated !!
 
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No way. I may be wrong but all the Toyota MT's I have worked on use gear oil. Usually 75-90 wt. Check your owners manual if unsure and get it back to the shop ASAP. There's links to owners manuals on the forum if you don't have one.

In fact: http://panavi.kz/4runner/185/toyota_4runner_owners_manual_1997.pdf

Page 220 has the transmission specs.

Tip: if you have a smart phone download the PDF of the manual so you have it at all times

HTH

UTEP
 
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That is serious stupid. Nice that you have it on paper. Go rip 'em a new one. Yeah, 75w-90 GL 4 is what goes in mine. I recommend RedLine MT-90 and never going to dealers.

That said, plenty of manual trans do use ATF. I'm surprised it would do any serious damage. Did it get suddenly colder when this happened? (I see you are in Canada.) Does it improve after driving a while? Maybe it is just too thick in the cold upon start-up for the tolerances and the right stuff will cure your problem...
 
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TheDurk said:
That is serious stupid. Nice that you have it on paper. Go rip 'em a new one. Yeah, 75w-90 GL 4 is what goes in mine. I recommend RedLine MT-90 and never going to dealers.

That said, plenty of manual trans do use ATF. I'm surprised it would do any serious damage. Did it get suddenly colder when this happened? (I see you are in Canada.) Does it improve after driving a while? Maybe it is just too thick in the cold upon start-up for the tolerances and the right stuff will cure your problem...
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no, ATF and gear oil are totally different, yes some newer manual gear boxes take ATF, but they are designed to take ATF. if a gear box was designed for gear oil then it needs gear oil, ATF will not work and you will burn up the gears and bearings fast. im not an engineer so i dont know what the differences are in the designs but it could be anything from tolerances to the style/type of cut put on the gears, to the material they use ect... but what i do know is one is not a substitute for the other. 70/5-90 is what is recommended for out gear boxes, transfer-cases and diffs, going to a 75-140 probably wouldnt hurt like this, but i still would not run it, its not hot enough here, for me, and i am not racing or putting huge loads on things so yeah stick with the 75-90 stuff. but i think he is too far gone to save the trans its made noise, its only gonna get worse, the dealer needs to replace it
 
the kid said:
no, ATF and gear oil are totally different, yes some newer manual gear boxes take ATF, but they are designed to take ATF. if a gear box was designed for gear oil then it needs gear oil, ATF will not work and you will burn up the gears and bearings fast. im not an engineer so i dont know what the differences are in the designs but it could be anything from tolerances to the style/type of cut put on the gears, to the material they use ect... but what i do know is one is not a substitute for the other. 70/5-90 is what is recommended for out gear boxes, transfer-cases and diffs, going to a 75-140 probably wouldnt hurt like this, but i still would not run it, its not hot enough here, for me, and i am not racing or putting huge loads on things so yeah stick with the 75-90 stuff. but i think he is too far gone to save the trans its made noise, its only gonna get worse, the dealer needs to replace it
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I certainly agree he should be using gear oil, but I'm having trouble with the concept of 'burning up gears' in 300 miles. What does that even mean? Sure, gear oil has superior anti-wear additives, but some accelerated wear over 300 miles is a long way from blowing up a gear box. The wrong friction modifiers could cause noise from the synchronizers without necessarily causing irreversible damage. I'm sorry, but I'll need a more technically persuasive argument before I will believe Dexron can kill a 5-speed in 300 miles. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I need to know more before I'll believe it. If the noise persists after a good flush, then I'd say the case is made, but that hasn't happened yet. The needle rollers may be the greater concern, but slushboxes also have needle rollers. Again, it's been in there for less than a day's highway driving.
 
OP you got dealer by the balls, one threat to go public with this and they will shit their pants, like the kid said, enjoy your brand new transmission, see if they can toss a supercharger in there too lol
 
TheDurk said:
I certainly agree he should be using gear oil, but I'm having trouble with the concept of 'burning up gears' in 300 miles. What does that even mean? Sure, gear oil has superior anti-wear additives, but some accelerated wear over 300 miles is a long way from blowing up a gear box. The wrong friction modifiers could cause noise from the synchronizers without necessarily causing irreversible damage. I'm sorry, but I'll need a more technically persuasive argument before I will believe Dexron can kill a 5-speed in 300 miles. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I need to know more before I'll believe it. If the noise persists after a good flush, then I'd say the case is made, but that hasn't happened yet. The needle rollers may be the greater concern, but slushboxes also have needle rollers. Again, it's been in there for less than a day's highway driving.
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well 300 miles is a long ways, thats a long time for heat to build up, with heat comes de-tempering metals, expansion of metals, if the tolerances are not designed to run with that increased head, then yeah you have not only improperly lubricated bearings, but caused untold and certainly undo stress on them.

again AFT is not gear oil, it will not do the same thing, yeah its a petroleum based product... if you dont see the harm in it, take motor oil and put in your rear diff for your next tank of fuel or put canola coil in your power steering for the next tank of fuel, i mean its all oil after all right

ATF is more of a hydraulic fluid than lubricant, sure it has lubricating properties, but its is desigend for high heat and high PSI enviorments, not for manual gear boxes... -yes i know some newer vehicles use ATF in the manual gear box, i dont understand how they have made it work, but i know those have to be a special design made for that.
 
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the kid said:
again AFT is not gear oil, it will not do the same thing, yeah its a petroleum based product... if you dont see the harm in it, take motor oil and put in your rear diff for your next tank of fuel or put canola coil in your power steering for the next tank of fuel, i mean its all oil after all right
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Really?? I deserved that? I'm done here.
 
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Wow durk. Your quite touchy. I guess no one ever poke at you in life. Op. go back to the dealer. Make them swap out your fluid. And have them provide you a written lifetime warranty
 
TheDurk said:
Really?? I deserved that? I'm done here.
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dude calm down i wasnt trying to insult you, i know you are smarter than to try that... i was more just saying that to say it... it was not ment maliciously or in an insulting way at all, i just figured you knew better and were playing the devils advocate or something...
 
Swimmerboy2112 said:
Always use gear oil in the GL-4 variety. GL-5 eats brass syncros!!

In my Taco I run Redline MT90.
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In manual transmissions that are designed to use a GL-5 spec gear oil, the syncro's will be fine. Toyota specs GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil for the W56 and R150F transmission.

I used Mobil 1 GL-5 75w90, for the first 13 years in my R150F. Then I switched to Redline MT90, mainly because I could get it for a better price.

No issues with either gear oil.


To the OP, in some bitter cold climates, adding a bit of ATF to a manual transmission that specs a gear oil, is not unheard of to reduce the viscosity of the gear oil for easier shifting. Going to all ATF, results in too low of viscosity for the R150F. Which is why you have the noise and other issues.

I would go back and have them change out the ATF, for a good 75w90 gear oil. I doubt any damage was done, but make sure they are aware of their mistake, in case you have issues after the change.
 
02SE said:
In manual transmissions that are designed to use a GL-5 spec gear oil, the syncro's will be fine. Toyota specs GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil for the W56 and R150F transmission.

I used Mobil 1 GL-5 75w90, for the first 13 years in my R150F. Then I switched to Redline MT90, mainly because I could get it for a better price.

No issues with either gear oil.


To the OP, in some bitter cold climates, adding a bit of ATF to a manual transmission that specs a gear oil, is not unheard of to reduce the viscosity of the gear oil for easier shifting. Going to all ATF, results in too low of viscosity for the R150F. Which is why you have the noise and other issues.

I would go back and have them change out the ATF, for a good 75w90 gear oil. I doubt any damage was done, but make sure they are aware of their mistake, in case you have issues after the change.
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I've heard bad things about people using GL-5 in these transmissions so i'll stick to GL-4 to be safe.
 
bpowa said:
Wow durk. Your quite touchy. I guess no one ever poke at you in life. Op. go back to the dealer. Make them swap out your fluid. And have them provide you a written lifetime warranty
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I have over 2500 posts on this board over the last six years. Go read them all and you can maybe find two others where I have responded harshly to others and believe me, they deserved it. Hardly touchy by internet standards. But TheKid and I have put this to rest, end of story.

Still, I am very interested to hear how OP's rig drives after the fluid swap. I doubt any permanent damage was done, although I don't rule it out.
 
i was not trying to be flippant or rude or disrespectful to Durk, i know he is a valued and contributing member here, and i know he is very knowledgeable on many many topics, some of which i know nothing about, that being said, i stated what i did more in sarcasum and sometimes its hard to read tone and inflection -i know how i ment it, but that does not mean he did. and so i apologized for what i had said. thankfully no harm no foul.

to anyone else, no i am not serious about putting canola oil in your power steering -i said that tongue and cheek, more of a just cause its an oil doesnt mean it will work type of a thing. neither of us know why the ATF wont work... we have different views on how it could affect or how we think it has affected things, and that is fine, and i respect his view, and i could easily be wrong -it wouldnt be the first time.
:cheers:
 
I'm real curious as to how the dealer will handle this.

That is one weird mistake though….it's quite difficult to confuse an AT with an MT and of course you check and fill then totally different…

Glad Durk and the Kid kissed and made up :kiss:

UTEP
 
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