Po430

[CXS]

I got the dreaded PO430 a week ago and had it verified and diagnosed by three independent shops. They all agreed independently I need to replace the right front catalytic converter. I read through all the posts on here about it and have come to the sad conclusion that they are right. Yes, I read all the folks claiming success replacing O2 sensors but lack of follow-up on many/most of those indicate to me that their joy on fixing the problem was short lived and they eventually replaced the cat too.

Yes, the dealer charges around 2K to replace it which, like most dealer rates, is freaking outrageous. Pretty much like replacing a tire because of a nail puncture. Another observation is that while many think that any cat failure is caused by a problem elsewhere it's not supported by people I have talked to regarding what's needed to fix it. I'll be getting my new cat installed Friday when the shop cuts it out and welds in a new one. Total cost is about $450 which is much easier to deal with than $2K!

The shop that's doing mine is a performance exhaust shop that knows it's business and been around a long time. I've used them before and they do great work and commented that they are seeing up to '07's coming in with bad cats, so much for cats lasting a lifetime.

Link: http://www.aaperformancemuffler.com/

Yeah, long-winded but figured I'd share what I've learned from reading here (thanks!) and my other resources. I hope it helps someone chasing after a magic cure and getting the job done at a reasonable price.

 

[04rnr]

List the shop, may be others might want to use them when needed :thumb:

 

[CXS]

Doh! Should have thought of that myself. Added it to OP, thanks!

 

[oljedi11950]

I thought 0430 was rear right o2 ? Is the cat their replacing an aftermarket or oem ? Might still have problems, IDK why but they just don't have the same make-up as oem did mine on 03 tacoma didn't last long , hope it works out !! Went with salvaged 1 from TAP welded it in worked fine for 80k

 

[CXS]

I mght have the code wrong Mike, my memory's not the best. I didn't ask but I think he'd go aftermarket. He built a kick-ass exhaust for my FJ62 and when I suspected a problem he replaced the cat without hesitation. He's a standup guy, I'll post results on Friday.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I thought 0430 was rear right o2 ? Is the cat their replacing an aftermarket or oem ? Might still have problems, IDK why but they just don't have the same make-up as oem did mine on 03 tacoma didn't last long , hope it works out !! Went with salvaged 1 from TAP welded it in worked fine for 80k

Part of the problem is that Catalytic converter failures are finicky... For the most part, a failed catalytic converter is often a symptom of an overlying problem (they don't just go bad by themselves at least not before 150~200k usually.)

That sucks, usually AFR/O2 Sensors tend to be the most likely cause. But I would guess the shops you took them to scoped the O2's, gas analyzer, and/or did an intrusive test? The AFR's are a little tricker to test as there isn't a really reliable way to test that (that I am aware of) compared to O2's.

I wish you the best of luck!

 

[oljedi11950]

I'm thinking worse case it lasts for a long while before it goes again but order those 2 sensors on amazon lot cheaper , but run it by him if you trust him ? Front is like 135$ & rear is 72$ maybe less

 

[04rnr]

Doh! Should have thought of that myself. Added it to OP, thanks!

lol no worries, Ill check them out when needed :yo:

 

[04rnr]

Doh! Should have thought of that myself. Added it to OP, thanks!

lol no worries, Ill check them out when needed :yo:

 

[CXS]

Part of the problem is that Catalytic converter failures are finicky... For the most part, a failed catalytic converter is often a symptom of an overlying problem (they don't just go bad by themselves at least not before 150~200k usually.)

That sucks, usually AFR/O2 Sensors tend to be the most likely cause. But I would guess the shops you took them to scoped the O2's, gas analyzer, and/or did an intrusive test? The AFR's are a little tricker to test as there isn't a really reliable way to test that (that I am aware of) compared to O2's.

I wish you the best of luck!

Thanks BW, I respect your knowledge and opinion. I've owned mostly Toyotas since the early 70's and I'm biased towards them. I do have 150K miles on this one and guess I'm more accepting of an outright failure than you seem to be. Being finicky lends support for that idea IMHO.

The shop that will replace my cat has seen a decrease in the lifespan of Yota cats as I mentioned. Seeing '07's coming in to his shop isn't a good sign. A problem with forums is that many people come to find out about a problem then vanish never letting people know what the problem ultimately was leaving us to speculate.

Time will tell! If I have additional problems I'll post them. If I don't I'll try to post that up as well.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

The problem is that pinpointing HOW it failed i very difficult. Sometimes some cats can be "brought back" and other times the substrate is just done. Which is disconcerting, most Cats should be easily hitting 200k under normal conditions (i.e. no misfires, proper fuel mixture, ect ect.)

I wonder if the trend is due to the adoption of AFR sensors vs. O2 Sensors? Toyota and Honda started playing with them in the late 90's and this allowed them to really lean out their fuel mixtures. Pretty much every Toyota since about 2000-ish plus runs AFR's upfront (now most manufacturers if not all of them use them as well for the more accurate control of lean trims desired in more "eco" friendly operation.) Diagnosing failing AFRs is very unreliable, I haven't found a testing method (other than a DTC being set) that is definitive in qualifying them vs. being able to scope a O2 and condemn it.

Well if the shop wouldn't mind too much, could they get a before and after exhaust reading on a 4 or 5 gas analyzer if they have one? I'd be curious of the results, not second guessing the shop. More wanting to look at how the numbers change/improve with the repair.

 

[LobstaMobsta]

I would have tried the a/f and o2 sensors before ever replacing the cat! Very hard to test a/f sensors acurately and it could be either / or with that code. The sensors are only $100....much better gamble then jumping into a CAT. FYI.... Most dishonest shops will always tell you oh yeah it's the CAT because think of the markup on that piece! 30-50% on a $1000 part! Big bucks! And then they get to scrap your old one! Always try sensors first....

 

[LobstaMobsta]

FYI....my bosal cat would cost me 499$ and my resale would be at least $750 plus....

 

[CXS]

A delayed follow-up and my conclusion appears to have been wrong. BW, you're right again though I questioned your conclusions. I have what I'll call a $600 O2 sensor because even though they both tested good and I had my cat replaced the PO430 did return. As BW has said repeatedly, diagnosing this sh!t is best described as finiky. I replaced the second O2 sensor and the lights have stayed off for 2 days and lots of miles. Fingers crossed. The only observation I have is that apparently O2 sensors die a sporadic death, good for one test, iffy for another, dead for a third, etc.

Live and learn, I join those who advocate replacing O2 sensors regardless of diagnostics before replacing the catalytic converter. Yeah, I should have listeded to you too LM!

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yeah, O2 Sensors are weird as is, even before they start dying/becoming sporadic. Then you get into the AFR's that we run precat (which when compared to rear Regular O2 Sensors can cause codes also) and they're difficulty in verifying proper operation, makes cat problems a pain in the @$$ to diagnose. Glad it seems to have worked out for you.

 

[CXS]

Thanks, unfortunately "seems" is all I can say right now. With a bit of luck I'll be done but that remains to be seen. Weather's warming, snow's melting, time to get out and not be concerned with this!