Shredded? What a drama queen. Nobody was being shredded by an Audi. Boy, you must have some demented vision there old man.
Popular Mechanics Addresses Gas Pedal Issue
- Thread starter azcowboy
- Start date
Shredded? What a drama queen. Nobody was being shredded by an Audi. Boy, you must have some demented vision there old man.
sheik
New member
Your random Google links don't really sway me too much either. I agree, Audi had to do take the blame whether they were in the wrong or not.
According to your link its 700 COMPLAINTS not accidents.
All you've really done in this thread is show disrespect to other people alaskaman and make yourself look bad. JED disagreed with your "devils advocacy" and you came back at him with put downs and a couple of links. Way to go!
According to your link its 700 COMPLAINTS not accidents.
All you've really done in this thread is show disrespect to other people alaskaman and make yourself look bad. JED disagreed with your "devils advocacy" and you came back at him with put downs and a couple of links. Way to go!
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The whole Audi thing was very sad....it almost ruined the company and put them out of business completely.
I do believe Toyota's case is different because we still don't know the specific details yet. But either way, Toyota should learn from past history and understand that it doesn't take a REAL problem to start a media firestorm, and there will plenty of people who are quick to jump on the bandwagon before learning the facts. Does that mean Toyota definitely does not have any issues? Well, I'm not saying that....we may learn that there is a design flaw and it may be a proven fact. But at this point, all Toyota can do is take a page out of Audi's book and start building in safety controls to prevent the possibility of unintended acceleration. The brake pedal/throttle cut is the best thing they can do right now and I'm quite sure it will be in every Toyota vehicle very quickly.
I do believe Toyota's case is different because we still don't know the specific details yet. But either way, Toyota should learn from past history and understand that it doesn't take a REAL problem to start a media firestorm, and there will plenty of people who are quick to jump on the bandwagon before learning the facts. Does that mean Toyota definitely does not have any issues? Well, I'm not saying that....we may learn that there is a design flaw and it may be a proven fact. But at this point, all Toyota can do is take a page out of Audi's book and start building in safety controls to prevent the possibility of unintended acceleration. The brake pedal/throttle cut is the best thing they can do right now and I'm quite sure it will be in every Toyota vehicle very quickly.
azcowboy
New member
Very true. The sad thing is that when enough of those conspiracy theorists get together, they can do real damage to a good company and hurt them financially. That's what happens when we live in such a litigious society and have a media industry always on the lookout for the most sensational news story they can find.
charlier180
New member
Unfortunately, I have serious doubts that Toyota has learned from history. I say this simply because Toyota has made some of the very SAME MISTAKES in handling their situation that Audi did. (ie blaming customers for the problems BEFORE THEY HAD ALL THE FACTS). Toyota's lack of communication be it on purpose or due to the Japanese way of running a company has been the elephant in the room when it also comes to how Toyota has handled the situation. Some people see the elephant while others do not.
Some people say that the true measure of a company is how they handle situations like this. Well, to at least some people, it is crystal clear that Toyota has FAILED miserably in the way they have handled both the situation and themselves in general.
I also find discussions like this amusing in a sad sort of way. Some people are oh so quick to bring up the Audi situation when talking about Toyota's current situation. How people are jumping to conclusions and how the press is beating up on Toyota. Funny how the people that bring up the Audi case FAIL to EVER mention another automaker who faced a situation with their vehicles and safety issues. When that situation first came to light Ford supporters said that people were jumping to conclusions and that the press was not being fair. Interesting how it was PROVEN that the people and the press were RIGHT in that case.
Yes, I am talking about the infamous Ford Pinto Gas Tank case. You know, the case when a Ford Pinto when struck from behind had a tendency to burst into flames. It was only after an investigation that it was found that there was a problem and that Ford knew about it and calculated the cost of fixing the problem versus the payout in lawsuits for people being injured or killed. Some say the movie "Class Action" with Gene Hackman was inspired by the Ford Pinto Gas Tank situation.
Anyway my point is there have been situations in the past where an automaker has been both rightly and wrongly accused. To point to situations where they were wrongly accused and ignore the rightly accused makes those of us who lived during those times sit back and laugh at the people doing this.
Yet another article on this situation....Interesting how the claims data from a major insurance carrier "suggests a strong connection between the introduction of electronic throttle control, also known as drive by wire, and events where drivers of Toyotas couldn't control their cars."
Toyota: No electronic defects | detnews.com | The Detroit News
Also sad to note that "NHTSA said 52 deaths were connected to reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles since 2000."
Some people say that the true measure of a company is how they handle situations like this. Well, to at least some people, it is crystal clear that Toyota has FAILED miserably in the way they have handled both the situation and themselves in general.
I also find discussions like this amusing in a sad sort of way. Some people are oh so quick to bring up the Audi situation when talking about Toyota's current situation. How people are jumping to conclusions and how the press is beating up on Toyota. Funny how the people that bring up the Audi case FAIL to EVER mention another automaker who faced a situation with their vehicles and safety issues. When that situation first came to light Ford supporters said that people were jumping to conclusions and that the press was not being fair. Interesting how it was PROVEN that the people and the press were RIGHT in that case.
Yes, I am talking about the infamous Ford Pinto Gas Tank case. You know, the case when a Ford Pinto when struck from behind had a tendency to burst into flames. It was only after an investigation that it was found that there was a problem and that Ford knew about it and calculated the cost of fixing the problem versus the payout in lawsuits for people being injured or killed. Some say the movie "Class Action" with Gene Hackman was inspired by the Ford Pinto Gas Tank situation.
Anyway my point is there have been situations in the past where an automaker has been both rightly and wrongly accused. To point to situations where they were wrongly accused and ignore the rightly accused makes those of us who lived during those times sit back and laugh at the people doing this.
Yet another article on this situation....Interesting how the claims data from a major insurance carrier "suggests a strong connection between the introduction of electronic throttle control, also known as drive by wire, and events where drivers of Toyotas couldn't control their cars."
Toyota: No electronic defects | detnews.com | The Detroit News
Also sad to note that "NHTSA said 52 deaths were connected to reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles since 2000."
I've mentioned the Ford Pinto case on this forum several times already. No doubt about it that Ford was guilty of letting people die after they knew about the Pinto design flaw. So yes, not every automaker is innocent all the time. I don't see anyone even suggesting that. But in Audi's case, it just illustrates that a company can be nearly destroyed when they are not at fault.
Toyota? Who knows at this point? Time will tell if they are truly at fault or not. But I agree that they handled the situation relatively poorly so far.
If you really want to read up on how a company should handle a crisis, just research the Tylenol scandal. Sure, it's not automotive in nature, but it is a good lesson for any big corporation and should serve as a guide for them.
azcowboy
New member
I agree. No one here is saying Toyota is without fault and yes, they handled this whole situation poorly at best.
The bottom line with my original post was that all of the talk about an "electronics problem" with the gas pedal system, according to PM, is bogus in their opinion. Heck, I learned a lot about this system in that short article (I am not in any way a mechanic).
I don't believe that PM is a shill for anyone. They have a reputation of being very thorough and their integrity has never, to my knowledge, been questioned.
azcowboy
New member
I don't believe anyone on this forum believes that Toyota is without fault. that being said, when some people come out with what many can actually read as "over the top" statements, they should not be left without comment.
Jed doesn't need me defending him, but I do not see in any of his replies where he was "backhanded". If people on this forum have facts they wish to share, then by all means share them. but don't make up "facts" to prove a point.
bradj
New member
People keep saying that Toyota is handling this poorly. How exactly do you figure? They get a couple of complaints and they check them out. But with millions of cars and a handful of complaints about an issue in the beggining its hard to not contribute that to a random glitch or human error.
Then as the media train starts to throw stones at Toyota they are forced to scramble and they start throwing out possible fixes to the problem without being able to fully understand if A) There is really a mass problem or B) if the fix they are trying to implement will actually fix the issue.
Most of the people that are making these accusations on Toyota have no real concept of engineering or failure anaylsis and the painstaking approach that you have to take to fully understand what could be causing issues.
I keep hearing new stories now of people that are having issues after they have had the supposed fixes and the story always ends in ran into a ditch or backed into a car. These sound like dumb people looking to blame there lack of driving on a easy target.
I'm not saying Toyota may not have issues with the accelerator but the percentage of accidents happening vice number of cars affected don't add up to me.
Then as the media train starts to throw stones at Toyota they are forced to scramble and they start throwing out possible fixes to the problem without being able to fully understand if A) There is really a mass problem or B) if the fix they are trying to implement will actually fix the issue.
Most of the people that are making these accusations on Toyota have no real concept of engineering or failure anaylsis and the painstaking approach that you have to take to fully understand what could be causing issues.
I keep hearing new stories now of people that are having issues after they have had the supposed fixes and the story always ends in ran into a ditch or backed into a car. These sound like dumb people looking to blame there lack of driving on a easy target.
I'm not saying Toyota may not have issues with the accelerator but the percentage of accidents happening vice number of cars affected don't add up to me.
azcowboy
New member
bradj,
It's the way Toyota initially responded when the recall was announced and the media took the bit in the mouth and tried to run them in the ground. It was a poor initial response. Then to sit in front of those idiots in Congress and apologize....
Maybe you should read this thread again. It started out just fine until someone started insulting me. Alaskaman called me delusional and then called me a tool...and even "boy" at one point. LOL....So then I put a few jabs of my own in there....no big deal, that's life on an anonymous message forum.
So feel free to voice your opinion all you want and I'll do the same, okay?
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I agree with most of what you just said, but I do think Toyota has handled this crisis poorly so far. In my opinion, the company should not have immediately responded in such a defensive manner. They should have shown EVERYBODY that they were completely committed to finding the cause of the problem (or multiple problems) instead of being on the defensive. For what it's worth, that's the message they are trying to get out now. The first time I saw that type of communication from Toyota was during the Superbowl commercials. Now I see the same type of ads all the time on TV. Well, they didn't help themselves with the way they reacted in the early stages of this crisis and I think that bit them in the ass a little bit and they ended up digging an even bigger hole for themselves.
I was driving a 2007 Tacoma last week and as I came to a stop at a red light (with a stopped car in front of me) the engine suddenly began revving. Instinct kicked in and I pushed even harder on the brake pedal. I feared the Tacoma was accelerating on it's own and I'd ram the car in front of me. With my foot on the brake, I was able to throw the truck in Park and safely lift my foot off the brake. At first I thought the truck was doing exactly what the media has hyped as a product defect. Only upon reflection did I realize that the sole of my boot must have caught the edge of the gas pedal midway through pressing down the brake pedal, thus creating the illusion that I was only on the brake pedal and the acceleration was unwarranted.
This incident was completely my fault but unfortunately, I can see how others would easily interpret it as a product defect.
This incident was completely my fault but unfortunately, I can see how others would easily interpret it as a product defect.
