Possible 5th Gen Audio Setup

[Flava Flav]

Alright, so I plan to upgrade my audio here soon and am leaning pretty heavily towards an Alpine setup. To give you an idea of what I'm working with, 2011 SR5. Basic audio because I knew I was going to upgrade that stuff at some point.

What I want
So as for the setup I'm considering, I want to go with a pair of Type R components for the front then fill the back and rear hatch speakers with Type R coaxial products. Of course I know I'll need some sort of amp to power all of the components so if anyone could chime in with a suggestion on an amp that could power the system without too much stress, I'd appreciate it. Also, is there an HU out there anyone can recommend; I'm leaning towards either a Kenwood or Pioneer Premier product but am open to w/e as long as its legit.

Question
Do you guys presume that with just those components and an amp that I should be able to get a sufficient sound/bass quality with superior clarity? I have two Type R 12's (the one's with the HUGE magnet) I pulled from my last ride however, I really enjoy having that trunk space. Therefore, should I need another sub, I'm considering Alpine's new Type R sub with has a smaller magnet that I can conceal in a stealth box in the rear right storage pocket.

In closing, I would appreciate opinions on that setup and amp suggestions. Also, out of curiosity, might anyone know if its possible to operate that system using the stock HU and controls?

TIA guys :thanks:

 

[H2O_Doc]

I call the wind Maria

I'm not sure how much this will help, as my approach was generally similar, but with some significant differences in the details. I came most recently from an Xterra Off Road, which has a fantastic stock radio. Going back to Toyota, I knew the stock radio wouldn't be acceptable and I knew it would be true of a base model stereo or the premium stereo (I had JBL in a 4th gen 4Runner and in an 07 Tundra - both decidedly unimpressive stereos).

Rather than do everything all at once, I made upgrades in phases (but with something of a plan). I first went with a powered Rockford Fosgate subwoofer, which has more than enough bass and seems to perform very well overall. It does sit behind the passenger's seat, but it is easily removed when necessary, albeit not as nice and convenient as a factory integrated unit.

The sub made the abysmal quality of the stock speakers more apparent, so those went next. I listen to a variety of music and although I started my mods with a sub, I do value quality across the full audible spectrum. That and a desire not to spend a fortune led me to Infinity Kappas. I replaced the stock dash (3.5), front doors (6x9), passenger doors (6.5) and tail gate (6.5) speakers with like sized Infinities. I also bought a KappaFour amp to power them and it can go way louder than anyone would want (and do so clean).

The difference is HUGE, but that shouldn't be surprising really. I am very pleased with my stereo and would do it the same way again, I think the Alpines you suggest would probably produce more bass and are outstanding speakers to my ears, but there is no lack of mid to low frequencies in what I put together and I am happy with Infinity. What is impressive about the Kappas is the detail that you get in the higher frequencies. On a couple of occasions, I thought I was listening to an alternate recording of a given track because I was hearing things I hadn't heard before. I'm not saying the Alpines wont be as good, but the Kappas clearly perform well across a broad frequency range (note: some people say they get tired of the brightness of the Kappas).

I had numerous conversations with car audio folks and a number of them suggested two things I disagreed with (and I think rightly so after my install). Several folks said don't bother with the dash speakers; that turned out to be one of the best replacements - lots of nice detail coming out of those. The other suggestion I ignored was the idea of replacing the front door 6x9s with 6.5s - I really like the fuller sound of the 6x9s and with a little creativity they mounted fine using the stock speaker bracket.

I haven't done the head unit yet, as I am waiting for the second generation of the appradio. I am leaning toward the Pioneer AVH P8400BH AVH-P8400BH - <b>NEW!</b> - 2-DIN Multimedia DVD Receiver with 7" Widescreen Touch Panel Display, Advanced App Mode, Built-In Bluetooth®, and HD Radio™ Tuner | Pioneer Electronics USA. I like the advanced app mode, I like using my smart phone's nav capabilities displayed on the 7 in screen, and the radio has a lot of other nice features (compatible with iphone and some androids - not including C3PO).

Note: I am a biologist and know very little about car audio (or other useful things), everything above comes from my limited experience. I do find myself volunteering to run errands just to get some stereo time, something I didn't do before.

 

[BucknutBob]

Personally, I would recommend going with the main speakers first--if they hit well enough on bass notes, you may find you can live without the extra amp and subwoofer(and not worry about burning space for hauling). I had a set of those Alpines in my last rig, and I was quite pleased with the results. A suggestion on the mains--if you have space for 6x9's in the front door, I would go with a set of 6.5" components, with the tweeter mounted separately higher on the door. I've done those the last few times, and I've always been impressed with the increased detail heard from the tweets there--that way you can ignore the dash speakers altogether (again, cutting down on the number of items to buy). Simple coaxials are fine for the rear, as you want the details from the front. Tweeters mount very easily--cut the cover material over the backing board of the door panel slightly smaller than the tweeter base, jam the base in using the outer material to help wedge it in, and simply super glue to stick it to the board (they don't weigh anything, so you don't need much to hold them). Add a small hole before mounting, for the wiring to go behind the panel. Any name brand 4-channel amp around 50x4 RMS should power the mains fine--if you want more punch, and the speakers can handle it, maybe 75x4 (especially if you go without the sub--gets more punch out of the mains). Four quality speakers and a good amp will make a world of difference, and help keep down cost and complexity of the install. You can always add stuff later...but you may find you don't need to, either. As we've spoken before, you can also make do with the factory HU if it uses digital signal material (CD, MP3, etc.)--just get a line converter of some sort to attach the speaker leads to your amp. If you decide to add a sub, maybe a Bazooka tube-style one will work while keeping down the space needed (I think I might go that route this time, for that very reason). Best of luck!

 

[ChipG]

5th Gen Audio

You might want to read my thread if you haven't already.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/100453-2011-audio-install.html

You should also realize the stock locations for the speakers aren't acceptable for a 2 way component set. You'll need to create a Tweeter location that is closer to the mid-woofer. Bouncing a tweeter off the windshield is a quick way to a headache and you will have time alignment issues.

You can use a digital signal processor to correct the T/A but, it's allot more expensive and you'll still have a harsh tweeter from the glass reflection.

Also, check my 5th Gen Sub thread in the audio forum

ChipG

 

[Flava Flav]

**Rather than do everything all at once, I made upgrades in phases
##Yea, I definitely plan to follow a similar plan in regards to upgrading in steps just I will plan to begin with the door speakers and use the sub as a last resort. That said, I'm on the fence about doing that now b/c I realized that I'd lose the two power sources in the rear hatch

**The difference is HUGE, but that shouldn't be surprising really.
##Considering you went with the Kappa's in the dash...is it safe to assume you went with Infinity coaxials in the front/rear/hatch? And yes, I'm thinking the Alpine's would produce more bass which I personally would find more appealing (Recent College Grad aka young and dumb) for the music I jam out to: Rock, R&B, Hip Hop and Jazz

Also, as Bob mentioned below your first post, he and I spoke about me wanting to keep the stock HU as anything aftermarket would result is the mass amount of unoccupied/exposed grey dash (I know I could mount stuff but not into CB radios/switches...clutter). While I did look specifically in to a few Nav receivers, I had not explored any of the App Radio products (thought they were a big waste of $$) but now that you recommended and I went to explore what you can do with them...my interest grew pretty heavily. The only bad this is, say your phone goes out...at that point you'd literally be stuck with a pointless screen until your could restore your phone somehow.

 

[Flava Flav]

Personally, I would recommend going with the main speakers first--if they hit well enough on bass notes, you may find you can live without the extra amp and subwoofer(and not worry about burning space for hauling). I had a set of those Alpines in my last rig, and I was quite pleased with the results. A suggestion on the mains--if you have space for 6x9's in the front door, I would go with a set of 6.5" components, with the tweeter mounted separately higher on the door. I've done those the last few times, and I've always been impressed with the increased detail heard from the tweets there--that way you can ignore the dash speakers altogether (again, cutting down on the number of items to buy). Simple coaxials are fine for the rear, as you want the details from the front. Tweeters mount very easily--cut the cover material over the backing board of the door panel slightly smaller than the tweeter base, jam the base in using the outer material to help wedge it in, and simply super glue to stick it to the board (they don't weigh anything, so you don't need much to hold them). Add a small hole before mounting, for the wiring to go behind the panel. Any name brand 4-channel amp around 50x4 RMS should power the mains fine--if you want more punch, and the speakers can handle it, maybe 75x4 (especially if you go without the sub--gets more punch out of the mains). Four quality speakers and a good amp will make a world of difference, and help keep down cost and complexity of the install. You can always add stuff later...but you may find you don't need to, either. As we've spoken before, you can also make do with the factory HU if it uses digital signal material (CD, MP3, etc.)--just get a line converter of some sort to attach the speaker leads to your amp. If you decide to add a sub, maybe a Bazooka tube-style one will work while keeping down the space needed (I think I might go that route this time, for that very reason). Best of luck!

Could you help me understand again why you suggest that I go with 6.5's in the front, your reasoning I mean. Like what would be the advantage of going with those over the 6x9 components the door is already slotted for. Or are you trying to say go with 6x9's in the front and 6.5's in the rear? Pretty sure thats not what you're saying but some clarity would be appreciated.

Nvrm, Im assuming you meant that if I simply went with 4speakers total to save on cost...I got it now.

 

[Flava Flav]

You might want to read my thread if you haven't already.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/100453-2011-audio-install.html

You should also realize the stock locations for the speakers aren't acceptable for a 2 way component set. You'll need to create a Tweeter location that is closer to the mid-woofer. Bouncing a tweeter off the windshield is a quick way to a headache and you will have time alignment issues.

You can use a digital signal processor to correct the T/A but, it's allot more expensive and you'll still have a harsh tweeter from the glass reflection.

Also, check my 5th Gen Sub thread in the audio forum

ChipG

Ahh yes, I saw this thread a few days ago about the stealth box you made. Very nice work there sir...hats off to you. I see that you've completed the door mounted tweets like Bob suggested I do. Whats your opinion of that if you don't mind me asking (Sound/functionality). Does it interfere with someone trying to grab the door handle or perhaps one trying to lay their arm on that rest? Tweets in the back door, with that sub it makes sense but I am curious, did you got with components in the rear pasgr doors or did you simply mount a pair of tweets in the door? While I would LOVE nothing more than to model what you've done, I am by *NO* means an audio tech/savvy (actually planned to use a local shop and have them or me take pics of the build). So if I were to complete this project, I would need supervision like a two yr old. I'll actually be traveling up your way as I'm in the middle of a move to MA. I plan to stop by Lightwerkz to see what can be done about a Projectors and HIDs as well. Plus I have family there...so two birds, one stone.

 

[BucknutBob]

Could you help me understand again why you suggest that I go with 6.5's in the front, your reasoning I mean. Like what would be the advantage of going with those over the 6x9 components the door is already slotted for. Or are you trying to say go with 6x9's in the front and 6.5's in the rear? Pretty sure thats not what you're saying but some clarity would be appreciated.

Nvrm, Im assuming you meant that if I simply went with 4speakers total to save on cost...I got it now.

I only mentioned the change in size because component speakers usually stick with round sizes for the woofer--if you found 6x9's in a component set, then that should be fine. And yes, I was suggesting 4 speakers, counting the components as one for each set--this way you don't have to get all those small, odd-shaped speakers to fill all the factory holes.

As for installation help and further advice, I learned a ton from this book: "High Performance Car Stereo" by Joe Pettitt, affiliated with Cartech. I found it at a car parts store, but you can probably order a copy from other places. I can help fill you in with some of the installation info I learned from it, if you choose to pass on the book. It's full of great stuff for future reference, too, like for really high-end systems down the road.

 

[H2O_Doc]

**Rather than do everything all at once, I made upgrades in phases
##Yea, I definitely plan to follow a similar plan in regards to upgrading in steps just I will plan to begin with the door speakers and use the sub as a last resort. That said, I'm on the fence about doing that now b/c I realized that I'd lose the two power sources in the rear hatch

**The difference is HUGE, but that shouldn't be surprising really.
##Considering you went with the Kappa's in the dash...is it safe to assume you went with Infinity coaxials in the front/rear/hatch? And yes, I'm thinking the Alpine's would produce more bass which I personally would find more appealing (Recent College Grad aka young and dumb) for the music I jam out to: Rock, R&B, Hip Hop and Jazz

Also, as Bob mentioned below your first post, he and I spoke about me wanting to keep the stock HU as anything aftermarket would result is the mass amount of unoccupied/exposed grey dash (I know I could mount stuff but not into CB radios/switches...clutter). While I did look specifically in to a few Nav receivers, I had not explored any of the App Radio products (thought they were a big waste of $$) but now that you recommended and I went to explore what you can do with them...my interest grew pretty heavily. The only bad this is, say your phone goes out...at that point you'd literally be stuck with a pointless screen until your could restore your phone somehow.

Yes, I went with the Infinity coaxial speakers. I struggled with the decision as I didn't want to do it all over again. I think if I were on the fence about whether or not to get a sub, I'd go with the Alpines you spoke of - really nice speaker for the price (to my unrefined ear). If I knew I was going to get a sub, I'd do as I did and go with the Kappas. They actually do great with Jazz, also with bass heavy classical. I listen to XM's Backspin (hip hop for the geriatric crowd) and without the sub, it lacks punch. I think had I gone Alpine, I wouldn't have regretted it a bit.

You make a perfectly valid point about the appradio's dependence on you having your phone to use navigation. We are a family with 2 iphone, and ipod touch, and an ipad, so no worries for me. If you just have the one device, then yes, you risk being without nav if you lose your phone. I have grown tired enough of nav units being out of date too quickly that I just don't want another integrated unit. Also, I like consolidating as much into one unit as I can and the being able to use Waze and Motion-X in any vehicle is nice. Waze has the added plus of letting users report where police are on you route; nice for me in a state where I cannot legally use a radar detector. Waze isn't as good, but it is helpful. You can get a lot of function for $500-$650 if you look for a discount online.

I talked to crutchfield about the getting an appradio (the model that includes the DVD unit) and they said their price was going to be $649, but they included the replacement dash bezel thing (whatever it is called). The only other thing would be the steering wheel control unit. I don't know if all new HUs are this way, but the pioneers give you a lot of flexibility in programming steering wheel functions. Another thing that might be interesting is to do something with the camera input. Perhaps use it as a crawling cam or maybe a mall milf skirt cam, who knows.

I'd be interested in hearing how your install goes.

 

[BucknutBob]

Perhaps use it as a crawling cam or maybe a mall milf skirt cam, who knows.

"mall milf skirt cam"?? Kids these days! LOL