Post-Lift Regret? [a bunch of questions for those of you with built trucks]

[JayRolla]

I'd be lying if I told you it will daily drive as well with all that stuff as it does now. I've run SS 1.2 on two separate trucks, and have been disappointed with the on-road experience twice.

33's will most likely be load range E, which will be a big shock coming from a P rated tire (which are still PLENTY capable off road when aired down). Handling will be sloppier, braking will be slower, and the truck will be slower, despite the regearing.

SS 1.2 rides somewhat rough, and will feel much less car-like on a daily basis. This can become quite exhausting after awhile. Off road, it's decent, but there are still better options for both on- and off road driving.

My advice:

• 32" load range C or even P all-terrains (Duratracs or Toyo, etc)
• new 99 tall coils all the way around
• new 99 OEM shocks all the way around
• new LBJ's, LCA & UCA bushings, new tie rods (inner and outer), new steering rack bushings, new sway bar bushings
• ditch the plate bumper. I've been wheeling with reckless abandon for several years now, and I've never once hit my bumper. And, even if I did, I'd simply buy a used bumper off Craigslist for $100. Plate bumpers add tons of unneeded weight, offer very few pros, and cost a fortune.
• 4xinnovations sliders. These are fantastic, and I highly recommend them to all
• Flat belly pans. Be it Front Range Offroad, or another company. Anything that allows us to keep our CoG lower is a huge plus in my book. Check out the hardcore builds on Pirate4x4, the meta is lower is better now. Your angles suffer, but your lower CoG makes up for it in a huge way. You simply just slide your flatbelly over obstacles.

The above will make your truck very formidable offroad. It will do very little to change the current driveability, in fact you'll most likely be impressed by the difference that all new shocks and coils make.

Now, if you want to take it one step further, I'd recommend substituting the following:

• 2.5" struts and shocks from either Fox, Icon, King, etc. You'd set your front C/O's to approx 1.5" of lift, which would perfectly compliment the slightly less than 3" you'll get from the below coils.
• ToyTec 3" Superflex coils
• Air bumps (again, FOA, King, Icon, or Fox)
• Rear locker (elocker retrofit)

Now, your truck will be incredible, onroad and off. Super stable, incredibly fast through the rough stuff, and relatively gentle on factory components. Remember, those big 3" lifts and 33" tires eat LBJ's for breakfast.

I still don't see how the SS1.2 kit was bad for you on road. TRD coils on 2nd notch and LC rear springs rides like stock. Little stiffer just like any TRD stock setup. My grandma would even love the ride. Not one person running that kit has ever had the same opinion as you. Wonder why your the only one that fellas this way about the tundra/lc lifts.

 

[Falonious]

I pretty much copied what Speedy did here exactly Project SportRunner
with lift, supercharger and brake upgrade on a stock 75000mi SR5 manual and could not have been more pleased....it did everything better than before. Ride is much better.
I also have the ARB bumper....it's ok but I wish I'd have gone with the Shrockworks instead. I have SW rear and sliders and they are very nice stuff. Stronger than the ARB.

Now there is still more to be done and that may change my opinion some, like the new 275/85 ST Maxx,s and and all that's it's taken to get them to clear properly. I can't believe guys can run bigger tires without cutting the crap out of the truck. Mine is too nice to hack on. Should have just got the 255/85's I wanted....easy peasy......
I don't know yet as that's still in progress. It was about perfect with just the above mods though. Oh...we can get the new 6100 Bilstiens now.....so.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/225734-npa-bilstein-47-258624-6112-coilovers-96-02-toyota-4runner.html

 

[3bears]

Agreed. Don't wanna file an insurance claim each time a deer pokes its head out.

Also true on 99 coils. Not worth it if you actually use your vehicle.


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I have the 99's and DO use my vehicle, not like some of you as far as hard wheeling, but I bet I'm off road more than many

but when I installed them I did install airlift 1000 to handle weight

I'm not planning to add a bunch of armor, so the 99's are a nice compromise to big lifts. But they are a stock weight spring and if I was adding a lot of armor and a winch, I would go with something else.

But with my 99's, I can run my 265/75/KO'2s and only one time this past month did I hit a rough road big enough that my tire made contact with my inner fender on the front pass side

 

[absalom]

I still don't see how the SS1.2 kit was bad for you on road. TRD coils on 2nd notch and LC rear springs rides like stock. Little stiffer just like any TRD stock setup. My grandma would even love the ride. Not one person running that kit has ever had the same opinion as you. Wonder why your the only one that fellas this way about the tundra/lc lifts.

Yea, I have noticed that I'm the only one. I tell ya tho, ever since I rode in the Icon setup with 2.5" barrels, there was no going back. Those large of shocks have ruined me for anything else.

 

[PWD4R]

I have the 99's and DO use my vehicle, not like some of you as far as hard wheeling, but I bet I'm off road more than many



but when I installed them I did install airlift 1000 to handle weight



I'm not planning to add a bunch of armor, so the 99's are a nice compromise to big lifts. But they are a stock weight spring and if I was adding a lot of armor and a winch, I would go with something else.



But with my 99's, I can run my 265/75/KO'2s and only one time this past month did I hit a rough road big enough that my tire made contact with my inner fender on the front pass side

99s are fine for height I just meant they still have issues of sagging.


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[Rock_Rat]

My front plate bumper paid for itself on August 13th 2016. I'll guarantee you that I would have had to get a new front end if it wasn't there. My trip would have been over.



Unfortunately, my Camry wasn't so lucky when a deer ran out in front of my wife. The county removed the "Deer Crossing" sign so now the deer won't cross there anymore.:thumb3:




Bottom line is everyone on here modifies their rigs for various reasons and they tailor their mods to meet their own environment and purpose for their build. If you plan on going off road then you should expect to make some sacrifices in your DD road experience.

I try to ask the following question every time I try and justify a mod to my rig "Do I really need this for the type of off-roading I'm doing?" "Is it functional and worth the investment?"

You should tailor your mods to your type of driving, both now and in the future.

There's a lot of good info in this thread.

 

[JayRolla]

Yea, I have noticed that I'm the only one. I tell ya tho, ever since I rode in the Icon setup with 2.5" barrels, there was no going back. Those large of shocks have ruined me for anything else.

It's like saying I rode in a 2017 TRD Pro and no reason to go back to another 4runner because it impressed me. There is. Bang for the buck. 1.2 kit is still great. Best of both worlds imo.

 

[Sean K.]

All I know is that the more I push it towards the off-road side, the less road friendly it becomes...

There is a balance to be had, because there is no free lunch, and for every pro, there is a con.

Its up to you to find the balance if this in a multi-purpose multi-use truck.

As much as we would all like to have it all, we cant have it all. If you specialize, then you compromise.

My solution: Buy more than one truck.

Generally speaking: The better a vehicle is off road, the worse it is on road. It's usually an inversely proportional relationship.

The real trick is finding that compromise between capability and livable on road handling characteristics.

Personally, I don't think a 33" tire and small lift is going to be something so drastic as to cause massive changes in handling or road characteristics.....but I'm also used to much larger tires on the road where there's a HUGE tradeoff, so I'm a little jaded.




.

 

[Sean K.]

My front plate bumper paid for itself on August 13th 2016. I'll guarantee you that I would have had to get a new front end if it wasn't there. My trip would have been over.

Did the bike actually hit your bumper? From the video, it looked more like he ditched it and the bike slid under your vehicle.

Got an pics of the bumper afterwards? Just curious if it just scratched it up.




.

 

[Technoplasm]

This is how it all started. I wanted to run the cookie cutter build... but I wanted a bumper and winch. and to get a bumper and winch, I needed front suspension. If I'm gonna do front suspension, I might as well lift the truck. If I'm gonna lift the truck, I'm gonna need meaty tires. If I need giant tires, I'm gonna need to regear. If I'm already lifted and geared, It wouldn't hurt to throw some armor on there.

Suddenly, I've bolted on 6500 dollars worth of stuff, and I paid 6500 for the truck.

I'm ok with having some drawbacks on road, I'm not expecting it to drive like it does now. I'm mainly just wondering if its absolute hell or not and if the truck will still make it to my 300k goal. Right now, my runner is basically like a camry on the road with stiffer suspension and a lot of body roll. I realize that it's gonna be a "truck" if I do all of this stuff to it

It is a multi-use truck and I do count on it to hold heavy cargo in the back every now and then, so any alternative to the 99 coils would be great.

 

[JayRolla]

This is how it all started. I wanted to run the cookie cutter build... but I wanted a bumper and winch. and to get a bumper and winch, I needed front suspension. If I'm gonna do front suspension, I might as well lift the truck. If I'm gonna lift the truck, I'm gonna need meaty tires. If I need giant tires, I'm gonna need to regear. If I'm already lifted and geared, It wouldn't hurt to throw some armor on there.

Suddenly, I've bolted on 6500 dollars worth of stuff, and I paid 6500 for the truck.

I'm ok with having some drawbacks on road, I'm not expecting it to drive like it does now. I'm mainly just wondering if its absolute hell or not and if the truck will still make it to my 300k goal. Right now, my runner is basically like a camry on the road with stiffer suspension and a lot of body roll. I realize that it's gonna be a "truck" if I do all of this stuff to it

It is a multi-use truck and I do count on it to hold heavy cargo in the back every now and then, so any alternative to the 99 coils would be great.

I daily mine on 4:10s, 33s and 4.5" front/5.5" rear lift. That's including body lift. It's not hell at all. It's fine in the city. Have to downshift a bit more going up a mountain pass but not that bad. I get 14-17mpg city and 17-19mpg highway. I would never want it back like stock. I say go for it.

 

[Cree]

This is how it all started. I wanted to run the cookie cutter build... but I wanted a bumper and winch. and to get a bumper and winch, I needed front suspension. If I'm gonna do front suspension, I might as well lift the truck. If I'm gonna lift the truck, I'm gonna need meaty tires. If I need giant tires, I'm gonna need to regear. If I'm already lifted and geared, It wouldn't hurt to throw some armor on there.

Suddenly, I've bolted on 6500 dollars worth of stuff, and I paid 6500 for the truck.

I'm ok with having some drawbacks on road, I'm not expecting it to drive like it does now. I'm mainly just wondering if its absolute hell or not and if the truck will still make it to my 300k goal. Right now, my runner is basically like a camry on the road with stiffer suspension and a lot of body roll. I realize that it's gonna be a "truck" if I do all of this stuff to it

It is a multi-use truck and I do count on it to hold heavy cargo in the back every now and then, so any alternative to the 99 coils would be great.

891's with a proper rear shock, or if you do a lot of hauling, maybe look at bags for the assist. I love how mine rides, but it was on shot stock pieces when I bought it, so anything is an improvement.

 

[Rock_Rat]

Did the bike actually hit your bumper? From the video, it looked more like he ditched it and the bike slid under your vehicle.

Got an pics of the bumper afterwards? Just curious if it just scratched it up.

Sean, the post is here in my build thread. A few things to consider:

• Quick reactions by me to swing far right as soon as I could
• The rig is lifted - Toytec 3" plus 1" BL
• The fact that he laid it down when he did.
• The bike hit my tire just about dead center and also hit the corner of my bumper. I was running the Nitto Grappler Trails which were more beefier than my Toyo AT's.

I'm not sure if my skids came into play or not. All of these factors played a critical role in the minimal damage. I still have the left front qtr panel to deal with this winter. Bumper needs to come off and I need to find out where "it's" bent. Not sure if the bumper is bent at all.

Here's the post with the pics: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...mica-next-adventure-build-13.html#post2441603

EDIT: I'm not sure if the guys Instagram video shows the impact any better. The link is in one of the comments section under the You Tube video.

 

[Bandit Runner]

I daily drive my beast. It has the SS1.2 lift, 35" tires, 5.29 gears, and tons of armor.

It rides good, and I love it, but power and MPG are definitely lacking. I plan on supercharging it soon to get some of the power back.

 

[Rock_Rat]

I plan on supercharging it soon to get some of the power back.

...and decrease the size of your wallet. Hehe.

 

[Bumbo]

Generally speaking: The better a vehicle is off road, the worse it is on road. It's usually an inversely proportional relationship.

The real trick is finding that compromise between capability and livable on road handling characteristics.

Personally, I don't think a 33" tire and small lift is going to be something so drastic as to cause massive changes in handling or road characteristics.....but I'm also used to much larger tires on the road where there's a HUGE tradeoff, so I'm a little jaded.

.

Again, its all about balance, and for every pro there is a con.

Even if 33's are still very road manageable and all that good stuff, the con, even if its a small one, might be as simple as a small reduction in gas mileage, it could be noise... it could be whatever. Point being there is always a sacrifice.

 

[serpentinium]

I daily drive a SS 1.2, and I have absolutely no complaints about the on-road handling. Definitely not too stiff or jarring, and I don't feel any loss of control or maneuverability from the lift (although my worn-out old stock suspension might not have been much of a comparison). I don't regret my suspension choice for a minute.
I don't have 33's, but I do have relatively heavy tires, and turning on my ect button solved the minor loss of power I experienced after going up from stock tires (several years pre-lift).

 

[Technoplasm]

damn... you guys are making me want to go all out on this truck...

maybe i should just do it

I can start with lift and tires, all i can afford right now. Then I'll go from there. probably gears after that, but the 33's should be fine with 4.30s until i can regear.

 

[T4R2014]

Here's the real scoop, just from dailying a 4Runner in the metro NYC area. Every inch taller it gets, the worse it's going to be to daily drive. That stock tire size might be tiny, but they drive damn well on the road with that tire and gear combo. Stick some heavy LT rated tires and a lift on there and don't expect to show up the ricers ever again.

Now that I see you have a rear e-locker, I would bump the tire size up to a 31 inch. Looks like you already wheel with some pretty mild tires. Do you feel like you hit their limits already, or would a more aggressive tread be helpful? That locker will make a huge difference even without aggressive tires. Ask all my Jeep friends with their huge lifts, aggressive tire, and open diffs how they know. :nerd:

Naturally, all that aftermarket stuff sounds cool, but it will add extra weight and wear. No telling how much extra wear it will add, though. 300k is possible with that stuff, but of course it's going to be working harder. It sounds like you have a clean 4Runner, and IMO thats the type of stuff that makes you wheel harder and turn the vehicle into a rattly old project.

Just my out-of-the-ordinary-in-this-forum 2 cents. I've tried all that stuff, but when you daily it, keeping it OEM (or maybe altering to another spec that is still OEM) is what you want.

I encourage you to do what you like, but you've been warned.

 

[trailbikerider]

damn... you guys are making me want to go all out on this truck...

maybe i should just do it

I can start with lift and tires, all i can afford right now. Then I'll go from there. probably gears after that, but the 33's should be fine with 4.30s until i can regear.