Post-Lift Regret? [a bunch of questions for those of you with built trucks]

[Technoplasm]

Now that I see you have a rear e-locker, I would bump the tire size up to a 31 inch. Looks like you already wheel with some pretty mild tires. Do you feel like you hit their limits already, or would a more aggressive tread be helpful? That locker will make a huge difference even without aggressive tires. Ask all my Jeep friends with their huge lifts, aggressive tire, and open diffs how they know. :nerd:

It sounds like you have a clean 4Runner, and IMO thats the type of stuff that makes you wheel harder and turn the vehicle into a rattly old project.

I definitely need more aggressive tires, but I can probably outwheel all of my friends open diff XJ's with these mild tires and the locker installed, especially since I do a lot of hill climbs. I don't know if I want to go full mud terrain, but definitely something with more bite than these. Youd be surprised at the shit I've done with these tires and this height though

The 4Runner is clean, but its not a perfect specimen. For example, its been totaled (repaired to 100% functionality, pretty good work done to it but you can tell if you really look) and it has trail pinstripes. The clearcoat on my front fender is a bit messed up from an accident the P/O presumably had. It cleans up nice and the interior is damn near perfect, but I'm not afraid to use it for what it's designed for. I use it off-road but I do take care of it during the week when it's not wheeling. I keep it really clean and neat, and I give it a nice wash and wax every now and then. so basically i beat it AND i baby it.

I love it and I'd be willing to make sacrifices for off-road capability

 

[White Stripe]

I recommend a different approach that I think would suit your needs: Do a 2 inch body lift, then add 2 inch coil spacers in the rear and 2" Rev tek spacers up front. Or front adjustable bilsteins with stock coils up front. The stock coils will be a little firmer riding with the spacers. 2" lift will help promote CV axle longevity and keep center of gravity low. 2"body lift will help keep cog low too bcuz your not lifting the whole chassis, will raise the body higher away from obstacles offroad, and will allow for bigger tires. This combo will give great road manners and be extremely capable offroad, and a good side benefit it will be fairly inexpensive to do all this.

 

[ADK Explorer]

Have you considered hidden winch mounts or an aluminum bumper to save weight? This is what I am looking into because I need a winch but not a massive bumper.

 

[T4R2014]

Have you considered hidden winch mounts or an aluminum bumper to save weight? This is what I am looking into because I need a winch but not a massive bumper.

Hidden winch mounts have been done here. The aluminum bumper is something I haven't seen done since like 2001 on 4x4wire, back when these were still new. It wasn't popular then either. I'm assuming the cost of an aluminum bumper is what no one on this side of the forum wants to cough up for. Just looking at the weight of a steel bumper and winch scares me away. I'd rather keep saving.

 

[November Sun]

My stock suspension on my 98 SR5 was completely shot when I bought it. Just installed the ToyTec Boss kit, 275 70 17 BFG KO2s, I daily drive it and I love it, rides great on our crappy roads.

 

[C-RAIG]

I will go the other way here. I have superflex and Bilsteins up front, landcruiser springs and bilsteins in the rear with 285's on SCS F5's. With load range C tires and the lightweight wheels it does ok. In hindsight I wish I did a 2" lift and kept the 265/75's. I have to beat on it in the mountains to maintain speed, I have a hole starting in the drivers seat because it's a pain in the ass to get in and out of. I have to lift my Saint Bernard mix in the back because it is too tall for her to jump in. It does look good though but for everyday use I would have done it different.

 

[Unner]

I daily my truck. Drove 700 miles this weekend. No regrets. Also has 205k miles. Put a nice bluetooth radio in it, nice speakers, and other interior creature comforts and you'll be happy.

 

[D Farms]

A plate front and rear are a huge advantage offroad, if you actually offroad that is. you need to protect the low hanging radiator, and approach angle is everything when trying to pick a good line. I run the 5100s but with stock springs on the 5th perch. they are soft and soak up the bumps nicely with aired down tires. they also provide the most wheel travel out of any of the aftermarket shocks, even the "extened travel" icons. about 11" max to be exact. on the rear you can get away with lc tokicos, monroes or any other cheap shock. currently im running bilstein hd's from the new tundra, and they are awesome, i wish the front had the hd valving and the long travel of the 5100. the new 6112 is a 2.5" shock and should give good performance if you can pay the extra for it.

A lot of the slop from the larger tires comes from running too narrow of wheels, and a lot of the harshness comes from running too much pressure.

its also a good idea to either replace all your wearable suspension parts or do them soon after the lift. with brand new joints and bushings my truck was riding as nicely as my mom's rx350, but with more travel and more body roll haha. the ride of the truck has less to do with the shocks and springs, than it does with bad old bushings and ball joints. around 250k is when all the rubber is basically done and needs to be replaced, so just be aware of that. a lot of people will throw opinions out there about different setups, when they are riding around on rotten rubber and loose balls. I wouldnt trust anyones opinion unless they have brand new links and ball joints or have pressed in new rubber.

 

[Bumbo]

This has nothing to do with this thread.... but I really like this picture. Boss Flex

 

[D Farms]

Thanks

 

[rkntoy]

Since I was going to be daily driving my current 4runner I really thought long and hard about the trade offs between allowing me to wheel the rig and drive it on the road. I have gone completely nuts with past rigs to make them wheeling machines with 37-38" tires and dual cases and lockers, etc. Each one was a slow progression to the dark side of making them not very fun to drive on the road.

I knew I wanted armor for winch mounts but also to provide the most hi-lift jack usable points as I have lost count of how many times I have crab-walked a rig out of bad spots with my jack. I also learned that locked axles can get a rig farther than that burly one with open diffs - so I swapped in an e-locker rear and matching front. To maintain drivability (especially with my 2.7) I did not want to go over a 32" tire.

So, with adding weight to the rig I wanted springs rated for more weight which for me ruled out the 99 springs. So I went with the Tundra TRD fronts and OME 906 rears. Now that I have my front and rear Savage bumpers installed I could not be happier. With the TRD springs in front I think it actually corners better now than before mods and with my glorious 235/75/15 tires...

 

[TXLX1]

I daily drive my 4Runner. It's basically a sonoran steel lift, 33' KO2's, Grizzly locker. I put the front sway bar back on, and like driving it much better on road now. No armor or bumpers and I wheel it pretty hard.

My takeaway.... Driving it under 60-65, the mpg is much better than at 75mph. The range, like many other Toyota suv's, is horrible. I'm going to add sliders, I'm starting to hit the doors on stuff. I'm prepared to spend at least double on maintenance and repairs since I daily drive it on and off-road.

 

[Jayjayb96]

As many members on this thread, i also daily drive my rig. Toytec coilovers, lc8 wraps and shocks, arb air locker, sliders, with scs sr8s wrapped with 275/70/17s ko2s e-rated. Im also getting a plate bumper made this week. Honestly havent felt too much of a difference but im also boosted.

I have no regrets and never noticed a huge hit in MPGs and still get an av 15 city/18-19 highway to but i dont drive over 70 mph either. If youre really concerned about loss of MPGs buy a prius haha

 

[JayRolla]

I daily drive my 4Runner. It's basically a sonoran steel lift, 33' KO2's, Grizzly locker. I put the front sway bar back on, and like driving it much better on road now. No armor or bumpers and I wheel it pretty hard.

My takeaway.... Driving it under 60-65, the mpg is much better than at 75mph. The range, like many other Toyota suv's, is horrible. I'm going to add sliders, I'm starting to hit the doors on stuff. I'm prepared to spend at least double on maintenance and repairs since I daily drive it on and off-road.

Hows that locker on the road? Been really thinking of doing this as my next upgrade.

 

[TXLX1]

Hows that locker on the road? Been really thinking of doing this as my next upgrade.

I don't notice it anymore, other than it hooks up when accelerating and turning. It feels like it free wheels when coasting around turns. It was already installed when I bought the truck. If I had to do it, I'd try to wait out for an e-locker axle, seems like it would be about the same price as a Grizzly. There are some other options out there though. Does great off-road.

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/Grizzly-Locker.aspx --- See chart at bottom for comparison with some other drop-in lockers.

 

[JayRolla]

I don't notice it anymore, other than it hooks up when accelerating and turning. It feels like it free wheels when coasting around turns. It was already installed when I bought the truck. If I had to do it, I'd try to wait out for an e-locker axle, seems like it would be about the same price as a Grizzly. There are some other options out there though. Does great off-road.

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/Grizzly-Locker.aspx --- See chart at bottom for comparison with some other drop-in lockers.

I was thinking of the Aussie locker, its pretty cheap. Swapping in an elocker is good and all but I would need to work the front to match the gears. At that point I might as well regear. So installed new gears, elocker would get pricey. Or just slap in an aussie and call it a day. But seems the grizzly is a little better from that review you posted.

 

[TXLX1]

I was thinking of the Aussie locker, its pretty cheap. Swapping in an elocker is good and all but I would need to work the front to match the gears. At that point I might as well regear. So installed new gears, elocker would get pricey. Or just slap in an aussie and call it a day. But seems the grizzly is a little better from that review you posted.

You don't get all that clicking with the grizzly. Only thing that might be drawback... I have a pretty harsh thud shifting into reverse that I suspect is due to lash or play in the rear. Not sure if its related to locker or something else. Other than that, don't really notice anything.

 

[89FourRunner]

I rarely say hello on the 3rd gen section.

Hello.

I felt compelled to chime in here. No one is going to be able to give you the advice you seek because ultimately it boils down to what you value in a daily driver. I will say however, the fact that you even created this post and asked the question tells me you should leave the vehicle's suspension components in near stock form. You seem to already know the answer in terms of the effect on real long term reliability.

Where in NJ are you? If you are in Northern NJ I would completely agree with many and say you probably do not want to commute in a modified vehicle with bigger heavier tires.

Consider that the ride height you have now (stock), and size tires you have nowwill give better on-road snow performance than a higher center of gravity vehicle with larger wider tires. There is no debating this. I am talking about on-road general low speed driving and maneuvering for a commute.

Nothing beats stock geometry for on road driving, maneuvering, and general suspension articulation with on road conditions. The stronger the angle of those control arms in relation to the road, the rougher and less predictable the vehicle gets. That definitely applies to only 2" as well (more so than larger more complete kits). Even more so if the lift eats up droop travel without replacing it.

Finally, the unsprung weight of heavier tires, their tendency to pull and wish to wander on pavement and the poor suspension geometry that a small lift kit creates will most definitely wear ball joints, Cv axles, steering components and the like more quickly. The more daily driving conditions it faces, the quicker the wear.

My 1989 has 362,000 miles with no rebuild, and has only had a handful of suspension wear parts replaced in its 27 years of daily driving. It has 100% lived up to (and still lives up to) the reliability these 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen trucks are known for. It did all this will little to no expense because it has remained in stock form for the majority of its life.

With all that being said - if you want a lifted truck you want a lifted truck. I understand the appeal, but unless you really are going to be facing off-road challenges that you cannot intelligently find your way around (in other words, if you are going to face stuff a stock 4runner can not get through, because it can get through a hell of a lot), I would not go too extreme on a daily driver. Perhaps grab another truck to play in. Your 3rd gen seems too nice of a daily driver to mess around with.

Good Luck.

 

[Chuckles89]

I was thinking of the Aussie locker, its pretty cheap. Swapping in an elocker is good and all but I would need to work the front to match the gears. At that point I might as well regear. So installed new gears, elocker would get pricey. Or just slap in an aussie and call it a day. But seems the grizzly is a little better from that review you posted.

The Aussie and Grizzly are completely different. The Aussie is a drop in lunch-box locker and the Grizzly is a full carrier that requires a set-up of the gears.

Of course the Grizzly is going to be stronger because of the design. That also means the price is a huge difference too. For most people, the Aussie should be good up to 35s as long as you aren't pretending you have a rock bouncer or something.

I have an Aussie in mine and after I got used to it, it isn't a huge deal to me. Just gotta know how to do the clutch and gas when you're in parking lots and you'll be fine.

 

[Technoplasm]

I rarely say hello on the 3rd gen section.

Hello.

I felt compelled to chime in here. No one is going to be able to give you the advice you seek because ultimately it boils down to what you value in a daily driver. I will say however, the fact that you even created this post and asked the question tells me you should leave the vehicle's suspension components in near stock form. You seem to already know the answer in terms of the effect on real long term reliability.

Where in NJ are you? If you are in Northern NJ I would completely agree with many and say you probably do not want to commute in a modified vehicle with bigger heavier tires.

Consider that the ride height you have now (stock), and size tires you have nowwill give better on-road snow performance than a higher center of gravity vehicle with larger wider tires. There is no debating this. I am talking about on-road general low speed driving and maneuvering for a commute.

Nothing beats stock geometry for on road driving, maneuvering, and general suspension articulation with on road conditions. The stronger the angle of those control arms in relation to the road, the rougher and less predictable the vehicle gets. That definitely applies to only 2" as well (more so than larger more complete kits). Even more so if the lift eats up droop travel without replacing it.

Finally, the unsprung weight of heavier tires, their tendency to pull and wish to wander on pavement and the poor suspension geometry that a small lift kit creates will most definitely wear ball joints, Cv axles, steering components and the like more quickly. The more daily driving conditions it faces, the quicker the wear.

My 1989 has 362,000 miles with no rebuild, and has only had a handful of suspension wear parts replaced in its 27 years of daily driving. It has 100% lived up to (and still lives up to) the reliability these 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen trucks are known for. It did all this will little to no expense because it has remained in stock form for the majority of its life.

With all that being said - if you want a lifted truck you want a lifted truck. I understand the appeal, but unless you really are going to be facing off-road challenges that you cannot intelligently find your way around (in other words, if you are going to face stuff a stock 4runner can not get through, because it can get through a hell of a lot), I would not go too extreme on a daily driver. Perhaps grab another truck to play in. Your 3rd gen seems too nice of a daily driver to mess around with.

Good Luck.

This is what I needed to hear. I think I'm just gonna build my truck into a more capable yet still stock 4runner. Fresh springs front and rear and 31 or 32 inch tires. I'm gonna have 4.30's in it soon, so it will maintain power at the larger stock tire size, and the e-locker combined with slightly larger tires will make it more effective off road. I may add some rock sliders and skids as well to protect it. Basically what I discussed with Absalom earlier.

I wheel the truck a lot, but ultimately I cannot afford another vehicle and I want to hold on to my 3rd gen for as long as humanly possible. It's a weekend wheeler in New Jersey- I don't need a fully built expedition rig. I just need to convert it to the BEST off road performing stock 4runner, because right now it is objectively the worst with the low springs and smaller stock tire. I may hide a winch in my stock front bumper as well. It will be a happy medium, because I really don't need to go all out for my purposes. It wouldn't be worth it with the amount of road driving i do. Basically I'm gonna beef it up to a 99 Highlander with the e-locker, instead of the low 2002 with camry tires.

A lot of this also stems from the fact that I just don't trust the IFS for serious off road abuse. The ball joints tend to fail with a ton of weight on the front, and the cv's start to break with larger lifts. I'd rather keep my stable and reliable stock setup and not have to worry about it, even if I have to opt to go around some obstacles.