Pretty new here so I come bearing gifts!!

[TrdinOhio]

Well sort of...

I am a tech with another manufacturer and have a pretty nice diagnostic table. I am running a snap-on modis with version 16.4. I can access all Toyota PIDS and any statuses out of any module. I can perform actuations and tests, I can basically do anything a tech stream is capable of ( maybe more). Up to mid-late 2016 builds. My next update will be 17.2 ( in October ) which covers the rest of 2016MY and the first 3 months of 2017. I know some of this is foreign language jibberish to some people but hopefully others may find it useful.
So if anybody has any questions or needs some kind of status reading or anything like that dealing with the Toyota modules feel free to give me a shout and I'll try and answer as best I can or post screen shots for you.
:thumb:

 

[fourwd1]

Thanks !
I'm sure that will be helpful

 

[916T4R]

Well sort of...

I am a tech with another manufacturer and have a pretty nice diagnostic table. I am running a snap-on modis with version 16.4. I can access all Toyota PIDS and any statuses out of any module. I can perform actuations and tests, I can basically do anything a tech stream is capable of ( maybe more). Up to mid-late 2016 builds. My next update will be 17.2 ( in October ) which covers the rest of 2016MY and the first 3 months of 2017. I know some of this is foreign language jibberish to some people but hopefully others may find it useful.
So if anybody has any questions or needs some kind of status reading or anything like that dealing with the Toyota modules feel free to give me a shout and I'll try and answer as best I can or post screen shots for you.
:thumb:

Question, can the software you have code out bulb checks within the lighting module? In my previous car (BMW) I was able to do this and a host of other stuff all via a config file update for different modules in the car. If you can, that would be awesome cause that would be the answer to LED signals and no resistors.

Thanks!

 

[TrdinOhio]

Question, can the software you have code out bulb checks within the lighting module? In my previous car (BMW) I was able to do this and a host of other stuff all via a config file update for different modules in the car. If you can, that would be awesome cause that would be the answer to LED signals and no resistors.

Thanks!

In your BMW you must have had an aftermarket program. BMW uses a very low voltage even when the light is not on to check the continuity of the circuit. When a bulb is bad the continuity is broken and thus a bulb warning. Or some use a resistance reading coded into the module. If you were able to code the LM ( lamp module ) or FRM ( footwell module in E90 ) to ignore bulbs then it had to be something aftermarket. There is nothing in the ISSS or old version Progman to change the coding like you described. Atleast at the dealer level.
I'm not sure what your old BMW was but I'm guessing maybe E46? Possibly E90 or E60 but everything now is interconnected through the JBE or FEM and coding out bulbs and stuff seems infinitely harder now given the integration of all the systems.
Most of what I can see/do is what a Toyota dealer tech would be able to see/do using a tech stream. I'll double check but I highly doubt it.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

In your BMW you must have had an aftermarket program. BMW uses a very low voltage even when the light is not on to check the continuity of the circuit. When a bulb is bad the continuity is broken and thus a bulb warning. Or some use a resistance reading coded into the module. If you were able to code the LM ( lamp module ) or FRM ( footwell module in E90 ) to ignore bulbs then it had to be something aftermarket. There is nothing in the ISSS or old version Progman to change the coding like you described. Atleast at the dealer level.
I'm not sure what your old BMW was but I'm guessing maybe E46? Possibly E90 or E60 but everything now is interconnected through the JBE or FEM and coding out bulbs and stuff seems infinitely harder now given the integration of all the systems.
Most of what I can see/do is what a Toyota dealer tech would be able to see/do using a tech stream. I'll double check but I highly doubt it.

The Modis software must have come a long way, last time I used one it was very clunky and limited in what it could do/see. Couldn't even get "Total Fuel Trim" or run certain automated features such as brake bleeding using the scantool (you could turn the solenoids on and off, but Techstream has a software automation tool that walks you through it with timers and such so you can't burn out the solenoid pack by accident, where as most scantools work basically like our old "on/off" switch box). Nice to hear the aftermarket is catching up finally, I get a bit tired of having to tell people "you can get a Chinese cloned TIS Techstream software and cable, but it's totally a 'at your own risk' deal." Doubt you can really do much more than a Techstream, actually I take that back you might because unlike our Techstream you wouldn't be "region-locked" so for example I bet that Modis would talk perfectly fine with the 2009 LC200 Diesel I worked on a while back, where as the "US Techstream" I had wouldn't communicate properly with it.

Welcome to the forum! Also, BMWs are nasty vile things... god they were such a pain from an aftermarket tool standpoint; and from my BMW dealer friends they're not much better on the factory side. Though I know with VW/Audi you can't do some very interesting stuff with a VAGCOM and/or one or two of the better aftermarket VW/Audi tools.

 

[TrdinOhio]

I'm happily blown away at this forum so far.
I came from owning tacomas and being on the Tacoma forums. There is VERY few people with any kind of technical knowledge of any kind and most people there seem more inclined to post memes and argue. This is a welcome culture shock I must say.

Yeah the Modis is pretty advanced these days. I'm actually a BMW tech and the Modis can do anything our ISID can do and sometimes sees faults that the ISID won't pick up. Even the German acronyms are correct! It's a very nice u it but comes with a pretty hefty price tag and the updates aren't much cheaper:sad:

As far as BMWs being vile I agree...sort of.
BMW is definately a specialty. I was trained specifically on BMW through the STEP program like 12 years ago and have been a master tech for 10 years now. It's really all I know and once you do learn to work on them they kind of make sense in their own wierd backwards German way. Truthfully I have a hard time looking at domestics wiring diagrams and figuring out wtf I'm looking at. After a great deal of time being wired to read BMW schematics it's like trying to read sandscrit when deciphering a basic GM circuit. I usually muddle through it but it takes more time and thinking then usual.
The old BMWs ( up to 2011 ) were a straight pleasure to work on. Since 2011 they have made diagnosis extremely difficult by consolidating modules and sharing responsibilities between modules. We went from making like 20 great cars to like 70 mediocre ones and each one works differently than the other. Perhaps I'm just getting old but the kids coming in now adays have to either be brilliant or trained up to nearly unimaginable levels as far as I'm concerned. I used to know every bolt and wire on a BMW but now without the ISID or assistance from the Modis on some things I probably am not sure. The one positive I will say is that BMW gives you TONS of information. Finding where they stuck it however is another story...

 

[916T4R]

In your BMW you must have had an aftermarket program. BMW uses a very low voltage even when the light is not on to check the continuity of the circuit. When a bulb is bad the continuity is broken and thus a bulb warning. Or some use a resistance reading coded into the module. If you were able to code the LM ( lamp module ) or FRM ( footwell module in E90 ) to ignore bulbs then it had to be something aftermarket. There is nothing in the ISSS or old version Progman to change the coding like you described. Atleast at the dealer level.
I'm not sure what your old BMW was but I'm guessing maybe E46? Possibly E90 or E60 but everything now is interconnected through the JBE or FEM and coding out bulbs and stuff seems infinitely harder now given the integration of all the systems.
Most of what I can see/do is what a Toyota dealer tech would be able to see/do using a tech stream. I'll double check but I highly doubt it.

Thanks for the input. Curious as to what you can do. What are PID's that you mention in your first post?

not to get too far out in the weeds, but the BMW I referenced was an F30 using ESYS. It is a BMW tool and it allows changing the configuration of any module in the car and you can even flash firmware. "coding" is really no more than updating the config file though. (I am in IT for work). You make the changes you want to file using the ESYS software and then upload the new config into the car over an Ethernet OBD2 cable. Pretty straightforward. in the case of the bulbs I changed, I went in and turned off the cold (start up) check and the warm (running every minute) check so that the LED's would not flash each time the slight current was sent to check for continuity. I did a few other things too. A lot of guys really change the set up of their cars too. Turn on options not paid for, etc. not for me. I just stuck to a few simple things.

It would be awesome if something similar was available for Toyota.

 

[TrdinOhio]

PIDS are a generic industry term.
On board diagnostic parameter IDs. Basically a fancy name for the codes required to access manufactures systems.
OBD2 requires certain codes are readily available to generic scan tools but complete PID lists allow you to access many more systems, see statuses and perform actuations.

Your ESYS information was interesting. I googled it and have never seen anything like that at the dealer level. We get a lot of tuners and stuff but what they use is/was kind of a mystery. I'm fully aware other systems exist out there and in fact you can get an ICOM and a fully operational ISID/ISSS program for a simple laptop but we don't see too many people with the knowhow or cash to do stuff themselves. As far as programming at the dealer level, it's been dumbed down so badly we can hardly do much aside from hooking up a cat5 cable and clicking a button. The ISSS doesn't explain what the programming or coding is doing with the operation of any specific module.

Kudos to you for having the confidence to adjust the coding of the F30 FEM or REM. most of the systems are now incorporated into those 2 modules now and they are slowly eliminating having separate modules for everything. It's faster signal processing and has many benefits but the issue is when a FEM or REM has a problem with 1 single signal or system the entire unit needs exchanged.

My Modis does not code aside from what the dealer is able to perform. Basic coding but writing new code is not something the unit can do nor something I feel comfortable with honestly

 

[DZNUTS]

From a Toyota perspective, my friend is the head tech at a Lexus dealership. When we hooked up their tool to my 4Runner, there wasn't a whole lot that was able to be changed/adjusted that wouldn't readjust itself after a drive cycle.

Did we miss something?


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[TrdinOhio]

From a Toyota perspective, my friend is the head tech at a Lexus dealership. When we hooked up their tool to my 4Runner, there wasn't a whole lot that was able to be changed/adjusted that wouldn't readjust itself after a drive cycle.

Did we miss something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every manufacturer is different as to what you can do once in but yes I imagine Toyota is limited as to what I can do aside from see statuses and perform function tests and possible some simple calibrations.

 

[atalarico]

I'm happily blown away at this forum so far.
I came from owning tacomas and being on the Tacoma forums. There is VERY few people with any kind of technical knowledge of any kind and most people there seem more inclined to post memes and argue. This is a welcome culture shock I must say.

Woot! Welcome! I completely agree on that too. I didn't realize how friggin' awesome T4R.org was until I started mucking around on VW Vortex. It's kind of incredible how unhelpful people can be on other forums, so I try to spread the car-ma of what I've learned here elsewhere.

Just curious, do you have access to the security codes for various modules on VW/Audi? I have a 2016 Golf R that I use my VAGCOM software with, but there's this damn black ice warning that is protected by a security code that no one can seem to figure out. I'll have to get the exact module and what not if you think you can find that code, but that would be amazing.

Cheers, and welcome!

 

[TrdinOhio]

I highly doubt I have any security codes...I think people are getting confused due to my talk of PIDS.
PIDS are just the generic term for the reason you can't look at manufacturers systems or clear airbag lights with cheap code scanners. Access to PIDS is expensive usually so you pay a premium to buy things like Modis, Ethos, Etc.

Even if I could get the security codes which I highly doubt I would need to hook up to the vehicle. Sorry brother

 

[BlackWorksInc]

From a Toyota perspective, my friend is the head tech at a Lexus dealership. When we hooked up their tool to my 4Runner, there wasn't a whole lot that was able to be changed/adjusted that wouldn't readjust itself after a drive cycle.

Did we miss something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a Toyota thing, they really don't let you mess around with their vehicles even with a factory scantool. They are also really weird about features (for example a 2005~2015 Tacoma does not have the ability to use the scantool to add a remote key fob, yet any 4Runner does).

~

In OBDII there's "Mode$06" which provides "PIDs" or "Parameter IDs". The easiest way to think of it is this way:

A DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) is the "failed" result of a test that the vehicle ran. i.e. I ran Test P0301 (Cylinder 1 Misfire Monitor Test) and the result failed expectations, so I set DTC P0301.

A PID (Parameter ID) is the actual test the vehicle ran, so if you used a Scantool to read Mode$06 data (I forget what the ID number for cylinder 1 misfire monitor is off the top of my head) you could see the results of the test the vehicle ran that lead to P0301. You could see that the vehicle wanted no more than 40 misfire events in 200 revolutions (arbitrary numbers here, so don't take them to heart) and it saw 56 misfire events.

OBDII provides some PIDs because it's federally mandated from a OBDII standpoint, but the manufacturer doesn't have to provide ALL PIDs to a generic OBDII Scantool, just what federal law requires for the OBDII standard. Everything else falls under "manufacturer specific" and that can be coded, visualized, and presented however the manufacturer wants. With a factory scantool you can see PIDs that a Generic OBDII tool will not and those can be useful for pinpointing specific issues and oddball issues, like say seeing how badly a Catalyst failed to see if it's "Borderline" or just shot.

Post Note-

I don't remember if I mentioned this in my Toolbox thread (should review/rewrite/update that at some point... X_x ) or my MIL thread, but if you want to really get good at diagnosing stuff; always assume the scantool and/or vehicle is lying to you. I know it seems counter-intuitive to say don't trust what the vehicle/scantool is telling you, but hear me out. A DTC is a failed test result of a test the ECU ran, that's it. The ECU ran a test, it got a result that failed, and it set the DTC; BUT that doesn't mean the test was accurate, the results were accurate, and/or the ECU is accurate. So if you approach it from the mindset of "the ECU thinks it has a P0301, does it have an actual misfire in cylinder 1?" (then you would verify if it has a misfire, if not you'd try to figure out why the ECU thinks it has a misfire when it doesn't, ect.) it will save you a bit of a headache on some of the weirder issues. I've been guilty of this as well, I've taken the DTC at face value and spun around in circles because I was thinking "it says it has this problem, so it HAS To be THIS ISSUE" and it turned out it was something else feeding false information to the ECU giving it a false test result. This is why there's a misconception that people think just pulling DTCs when you have a check engine light is all the diagnosis you need and the tech is fleecing you for an hour of labor to pull code (it's almost never that easy.)

 

[TrdinOhio]

It's a Toyota thing, they really don't let you mess around with their vehicles even with a factory scantool. They are also really weird about features (for example a 2005~2015 Tacoma does not have the ability to use the scantool to add a remote key fob, yet any 4Runner does).

~

In OBDII there's "Mode$06" which provides "PIDs" or "Parameter IDs". The easiest way to think of it is this way:

A DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) is the "failed" result of a test that the vehicle ran. i.e. I ran Test P0301 (Cylinder 1 Misfire Monitor Test) and the result failed expectations, so I set DTC P0301.

A PID (Parameter ID) is the actual test the vehicle ran, so if you used a Scantool to read Mode$06 data (I forget what the ID number for cylinder 1 misfire monitor is off the top of my head) you could see the results of the test the vehicle ran that lead to P0301. You could see that the vehicle wanted no more than 40 misfire events in 200 revolutions (arbitrary numbers here, so don't take them to heart) and it saw 56 misfire events.

OBDII provides some PIDs because it's federally mandated from a OBDII standpoint, but the manufacturer doesn't have to provide ALL PIDs to a generic OBDII Scantool, just what federal law requires for the OBDII standard. Everything else falls under "manufacturer specific" and that can be coded, visualized, and presented however the manufacturer wants. With a factory scantool you can see PIDs that a Generic OBDII tool will not and those can be useful for pinpointing specific issues and oddball issues, like say seeing how badly a Catalyst failed to see if it's "Borderline" or just shot.

Post Note-

I don't remember if I mentioned this in my Toolbox thread (should review/rewrite/update that at some point... X_x ) or my MIL thread, but if you want to really get good at diagnosing stuff; always assume the scantool and/or vehicle is lying to you. I know it seems counter-intuitive to say don't trust what the vehicle/scantool is telling you, but hear me out. A DTC is a failed test result of a test the ECU ran, that's it. The ECU ran a test, it got a result that failed, and it set the DTC; BUT that doesn't mean the test was accurate, the results were accurate, and/or the ECU is accurate. So if you approach it from the mindset of "the ECU thinks it has a P0301, does it have an actual misfire in cylinder 1?" (then you would verify if it has a misfire, if not you'd try to figure out why the ECU thinks it has a misfire when it doesn't, ect.) it will save you a bit of a headache on some of the weirder issues. I've been guilty of this as well, I've taken the DTC at face value and spun around in circles because I was thinking "it says it has this problem, so it HAS To be THIS ISSUE" and it turned out it was something else feeding false information to the ECU giving it a false test result. This is why there's a misconception that people think just pulling DTCs when you have a check engine light is all the diagnosis you need and the tech is fleecing you for an hour of labor to pull code (it's almost never that easy.)

I have a hunch you've done this a little while :hail:

I've been guilty of reading faults at face value as well. Luckily BMW likes to backdoor you pretty hard especially with the N63 engine. Pretty much nothing on the screen is 100% true or accurate LOL.

 

[Aurora85]

I'm happily blown away at this forum so far.
I came from owning tacomas and being on the Tacoma forums. There is VERY few people with any kind of technical knowledge of any kind and most people there seem more inclined to post memes and argue. This is a welcome culture shock I must say.

Yeah the Modis is pretty advanced these days. I'm actually a BMW tech and the Modis can do anything our ISID can do and sometimes sees faults that the ISID won't pick up. Even the German acronyms are correct! It's a very nice u it but comes with a pretty hefty price tag and the updates aren't much cheaper:sad:

As far as BMWs being vile I agree...sort of.
BMW is definately a specialty. I was trained specifically on BMW through the STEP program like 12 years ago and have been a master tech for 10 years now. It's really all I know and once you do learn to work on them they kind of make sense in their own wierd backwards German way. Truthfully I have a hard time looking at domestics wiring diagrams and figuring out wtf I'm looking at. After a great deal of time being wired to read BMW schematics it's like trying to read sandscrit when deciphering a basic GM circuit. I usually muddle through it but it takes more time and thinking then usual.
The old BMWs ( up to 2011 ) were a straight pleasure to work on. Since 2011 they have made diagnosis extremely difficult by consolidating modules and sharing responsibilities between modules. We went from making like 20 great cars to like 70 mediocre ones and each one works differently than the other. Perhaps I'm just getting old but the kids coming in now adays have to either be brilliant or trained up to nearly unimaginable levels as far as I'm concerned. I used to know every bolt and wire on a BMW but now without the ISID or assistance from the Modis on some things I probably am not sure. The one positive I will say is that BMW gives you TONS of information. Finding where they stuck it however is another story...

Welcome to the forum! Slightly off-topic, but on point with your job. I'm a BMW enthusiast and used to own an '85 e30 325..what a great car. Regret to this day selling it with 56,000 miles in the late 90s especially seeing how well those cars sell now days clean. Anyhow, I still lurk on the BMW forums. I was tempted to get back into BMWs by purchasing an F30 either 328 or 335 ( I know the 335 is a beast, but I like the pricing on the 4 banger. Are these modern BMW's honestly worth owning out of warranty? Seems like a lot of issues and complexity? The n54 seems very robust, but what has been your experience with the n20? The e30 was such a great car to work on, but I doubt one can even work on the new ones at home etc. Maybe it would be a perfect car to lease and have fun then get rid of it before the headaches ha. Would love your take since you work on them day in and out.

Sorry for the thread de-rail. You'll love this forum. Lots of great info!

 

[TrdinOhio]

I'm not sure how much I'll be allowed to talk BMW here before the thread is scrapped. I'll PM you

 

[916T4R]

Welcome to the forum! Slightly off-topic, but on point with your job. I'm a BMW enthusiast and used to own an '85 e30 325..what a great car. Regret to this day selling it with 56,000 miles in the late 90s especially seeing how well those cars sell now days clean. Anyhow, I still lurk on the BMW forums. I was tempted to get back into BMWs by purchasing an F30 either 328 or 335 ( I know the 335 is a beast, but I like the pricing on the 4 banger. Are these modern BMW's honestly worth owning out of warranty? Seems like a lot of issues and complexity? The n54 seems very robust, but what has been your experience with the n20? The e30 was such a great car to work on, but I doubt one can even work on the new ones at home etc. Maybe it would be a perfect car to lease and have fun then get rid of it before the headaches ha. Would love your take since you work on them day in and out.

Sorry for the thread de-rail. You'll love this forum. Lots of great info!

You can pm me too if you like. I have owned every 3 series in some variant since the e30. Just sold my f30 335 to get into this 4Runner. Different beasts to say the least.


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