pricing question

[theliman]

Hey guys,

Been lurking around here for a little while, but joined today to get some advice. I apologize if threads of this nature are frowned upon, or if I am in the wrong forum (I didn't see anything better).

I've been looking to get a used 4th gen 4Runner. I love the Sport package, probably mainly because of the black seats and running boards, and I've found a good looking black 2007 with low miles.

I've never negotiated for a car before and am not really sure where to start.

2007 Sport Blk 4x4 30k miles, Certified. One owner/no accidents.

I would have to travel 5 hours to the dealer, so we're going to try to work something out over the phone before I come up (with the option for me to bail if I don't like something). I want to get the price figured out now because I will have almost zero power to negotiate when I'm there, since they know I wouldn't want to have wasted the drive and come home empty handed.

I'm asking for advice here because you are not only experienced car buyers, but you are likely to have a good feel for the 4Runner market.
Asking price is $27k. KBB I think is around $29k. Edmunds TMV is about $26k. I would love to offer around $22k and take something a little over $23k, but I don't know if that's low-balling them or not.

When I told them that I would be coming up with an offer soon, they began to explain why they didn't think the price would come down too much, which I imagine is standard procedure. "KBB is 29, car is certified, low miles, only one owner." I would love to play two dealers against each other over similar cars but this one is pretty rare. The only ammo I think I have is that invoice for a brand new 2010 4x4 is $28k, which isn't far off their asking price. I think I've managed to hide the fact that the car is exactly what I've been looking for.

Sorry that was a bit long, but any help/ideas on a good price would be appreciated. Thanks guys

 

[MikesToy]

Welcome aboard! Allow me to enlighten you a little bit. There are 3 diff prices on KBB. Trade-In is the lowest, Private Party is higher, Retail is the highest. Get those 3 amounts and hide them in your backpocket. Now, dealers accept trade-in's and pay most like LESS THAN the Trade-In value is to the customer. And turnaround and try to sell it at Retail price for a high profit or at Private Party price for some profit. Try to negotiate at Trade-In value. If i were you, i'd check the 4Runner first before i start negotiating. I'd rather come empty handed than getting ripped off monetarily or by having a troubled 4Runner.

 

[toto]

^^ Good advice. I would add that when you negotiatiate, don't use words like "KBB", "Trade In", "Wholesale", etc. Have a number in mind before you walk into the dealer, and always talk numbers. If you get caught in a trap by saying something like "I'm willing to pay $x more than KBB's trade-in value", you'll suddenly find yourself arguing with them about what that value is.

I traded in a car a couple of years ago and the dealer put a piece of paper in front of me that was supposed to be a printout from KBB's Web site about my trade-in. It sure looked like a printout from that Web site. However, the number on it was over $1,000 less than the same number I got from what I know was KBB's Web site earlier that day. Dealers are in the business of making money, and don't ever underestimate their creativity.

So in summary, pick a number, stick to it, and don't feel obligated to explain how you got to that number.

 

[theliman]

Welcome aboard! Allow me to enlighten you a little bit. There are 3 diff prices on KBB. Trade-In is the lowest, Private Party is higher, Retail is the highest. Get those 3 amounts and hide them in your backpocket. Now, dealers accept trade-in's and pay most like LESS THAN the Trade-In value is to the customer. And turnaround and try to sell it at Retail price for a high profit or at Private Party price for some profit. Try to negotiate at Trade-In value. If i were you, i'd check the 4Runner first before i start negotiating. I'd rather come empty handed than getting ripped off monetarily or by having a troubled 4Runner.

Thanks! Since it's certified and off-lease, I'm not that concerned about the car, but that said, I would still not be bound by anything when I arrived to check it out. At the same time, they could technically sell it to someone else while I'm driving up or something, I would just have to take them at their word (OK I know that makes me sound extremely ignorant, but so far my salesperson seems reasonable). Good advice on KBB - I've always looked at KBB values as high, and existing for the purpose of allowing dealers to say "look, we're way under KBB!"

 

[Euphor501]

Just so you can have a comparison, I bought a 2007 Sport, 4X4, V6, leather, with 19k miles w/ warranty, exactly a year ago and paid $23,700. I got the feeling there was a little more wiggle room, but I had just sold my car the day b/f and it was worth it to me to pay a little more and not be out a vehicle for an extended amt of time. You deffinately have room to negotiate in my opinion, but there is always the possibility they paid more for it than it may have been worth.

Another comparison, my dad paid 28k for a 2008 black 4X4 V6, urban runner, brand new.

 

[jengic]

for another comparison i bought my 2007 sr5 with 30k and one owner in december of '08 for $19,000

 

[theliman]

Thanks for the comparisons, very very helpful.

 

[Lexusbstrdchild]

Just to throw another wrench in the works: prices on the west coast are higher than that of the east coast. Dont know why, but thats how it works. Expect to pay more than say someone out east does.

 

[MikesToy]

OR come up with your own price. Formula: Price when new at that year divided by how many years has passed. For example: It that 2007 was $36K (new), it's now 2010 (3 yrs old) --so $36K divided by 3 = $12K. So offer them $12K.

 

[Uneek]

OR come up with your own price. Formula: Price when new at that year divided by how many years has passed. For example: It that 2007 was $36K (new), it's now 2010 (3 yrs old) --so $36K divided by 3 = $12K. So offer them $12K.

:nono:

So if yours is on sale today, it'll go for $6-7k? ($45k, 7yrs) :jump:

 

[BlackDrake]

OR come up with your own price. Formula: Price when new at that year divided by how many years has passed. For example: It that 2007 was $36K (new), it's now 2010 (3 yrs old) --so $36K divided by 3 = $12K. So offer them $12K.

That's funny. :/

 

[DaBoostCreep]

The only ammo I think I have is that invoice for a brand new 2010 4x4 is $28k, which isn't far off their asking price.

Id say call, ask if there is a fleet or internet sales dept. If so, say you want to do a no nonsense transaction. Invoice + the salesman can add $100 to pad his pocket for helping you make this seamless.

You show up, credit pre-approved, sign the paperwork, and drive away. This way you get a brand new vehicle, and lower interest than a used car loan.

For instance the average used loan rate is about 6.9% right now.

Brand new varies, but from many manufacturers you can get 1.9, 2.9 so on. We had 0% on our 05 Sport T4R.

Lets say you settle at $25k on the used one with 6.9% interest. You pay $3680 in interest over the life of the loan, total becomes $28,680

Lets now say you buy new at $28K on the new one with 1.9% interest. You pay $1100 in interest over the life of the loan, total becomes $29,100.

So a used 07 with 30k miles for $28,680, or a brand new 10 with 0 miles (ok maybe 5) for $29,100.

Drumroll please.....a total of $420 difference between new and used. People often overlook the drastic effects of a used vs new car loan. You will of course pay licensing on the new car, and a bit more in tax. Resale value of your new vehicle should you sell it in a few years will also be significantly higher than if you were to buy the 07 and resell it.

Just some ideas.

 

[toto]

The logic in that math above is pretty good and is seriously worth considering. The problem is that I've never seen a 4Runner SR5 with no options on it in order such that you can really buy one for only $28K. All of the 2010 SR5's around this area seem to have the factory leather package, the convenience package, the rear cargo shelf, and a radio upgrade, putting their sticker price just under $36K. That means invoice is about $33K.

To do more comparison shopping, look for ads from other dealers for other used 4Runners. Now that you know from your KBB experience that the dealer list price in the ad is a lot more than you're really going to pay, you can start figuring out if the one you're looking at is priced competitively or not.

 

[theliman]

Thanks again to all. The one I was looking at sold yesterday. I found a few others today, all which had sold. Except one.

Pretty similar, black sport, 29k miles, one owner/no accident, MY2008 and bought in March 2008, so still under factory warranty. It was a trade-in at another car maker's dealership, so it's not some sketchy auction-purchased vehicle, but I'm also not paying for it being "Certified," which I think in this case would not have been worth it. I called the dealer it was originally purchased at and they said the person did get routine maintenance done there and they saw no reasons that the factory warranty would be void.

They had it listed at $24,900, claimed to be a no-haggle dealership, but I offered $23,000, hoping to pay $23,500. They said their final offer was $23,700, so I took it. Driving there tomorrow morning to pick-up (I can still back out if something is not right when I'm up there, but they are setting it aside for me at least through tomorrow AM). Had them fax the total price so they can't pull anything once I'm there.

Alright, so I might have been able to get lower, but I just went for it because I really like this exact package, I needed to buy something within a few weeks, and every one I found was selling quickly. Will post pics if this thing doesn't fall through. Thanks to everyone - some affirmation, whether genuine or not, that I got a decent deal wouldn't hurt.

 

[MikesToy]

:nono:

So if yours is on sale today, it'll go for $6-7k? ($45k, 7yrs) :jump:

If i want a quick sale, sure.....

 

[MikesToy]

So a used 07 with 30k miles for $28,680, or a brand new 10 with 0 miles (ok maybe 5) for $29,100.

The 2010 is probably an I-4 and not a V6.

 

[theliman]

Only took this picture (with my phone) because I wanted to get on the road for the five hour journey home back over mountains. Anyway, I'm happy with 'er!

 

[jengic]

congrats on the 4runner man, she's sharp

 

[RaptorRunner]

You definitely got a great deal! I just bought a 2006 black sport 4WD with 70k miles from CarMax for $20k. Based on the picture, I'm assuming you got a 4WD as well? I'm jealous that you were able to get a 2008 for that cheap. Congrats!