Problem: Motor Cutting Out

UPDATE

The truck still does not run right, and I have replaced a number of other parts since the last post. This chase is driving me crazy, and I don't know what to do next..

  • Replaced alternator, NO DIFFERENCE
  • Brand new Denso fuel pump, NO DIFFERENCE
  • New high pressure fuel line
  • Charged battery
  • Tried spare AFM, no difference
  • Fuel filter is new as of December (gas tank is spotless inside)
  • TPS ohmed out ok, spare TPS ohmed out ok as well
  • Inspected ECU, no burning / funny smells on motherboard
  • New FPR (fuel pressure regulator) from Oreilly, ran a hair better

Have not tested fuel injectors or coolant temp sensor.

What should I do now?

unless you like wasting money, stop throwing parts at the problem. exhibit some patience with diagnostics, determine the cause (or causes).

the alternator plays no direct role in fuel delivery. the FPR fails by allowing gas into the vacuum line, or by not allowing pressure to build. you can test whether it works using the pressure gauge - unplug the vac line, and if the pressure jumps up, the FPR works.

likewise, fuel pressure results indicated pressure mostly correct, no reason the change pump yet. when you start having pressure readings in the low 20s or 10s, it's time to replace the pump.

installing the pressure gauge is good, it greatly aids in diagnostics. too bad you got the garbage LCE one. i had two fail within two weeks of install. so i added a northern tool liquid-filled gauge, and it has worked for months so far.

wally
 
unless you like wasting money, stop throwing parts at the problem. exhibit some patience with diagnostics, determine the cause (or causes).

...And that is why I came back here. I feel like I have started "throwing money at the problem" and I know that doesn't solve anything efficiently. I have done further diagnostics of other parts, my apologies for not including here, but it has been many weeks and I didn't think it necessary to include all that.

installing the pressure gauge is good, it greatly aids in diagnostics. too bad you got the garbage LCE one. i had two fail within two weeks of install. so i added a northern tool liquid-filled gauge, and it has worked for months so far.

LCE gauge has worked fine since I bought it. Good to know for the future, though. How did yours fail?

the alternator plays no direct role in fuel delivery. the FPR fails by allowing gas into the vacuum line, or by not allowing pressure to build. you can test whether it works using the pressure gauge - unplug the vac line, and if the pressure jumps up, the FPR works.

...Again, more detail I didn't include. The alternator went bad during the course of my testing, as there was a coolant leak from previous mechanic line replacement that was dripping right into the thing-- and it wasn't charging my battery anymore. I replaced the alternator due to this problem.

likewise, fuel pressure results indicated pressure mostly correct, no reason the change pump yet. when you start having pressure readings in the low 20s or 10s, it's time to replace the pump.

In better news, at least we know now that the pump is known good (new) and the rusty high pressure line has been replaced.

So, I still ask... what should I look into next? I am out of ideas and it really bothers me that I bought a $6k truck that doesn't drive right. I would love to perform further diagnostics to determine the problem.

Thanks for the input!
 
When I'm out of ideas and can't find a solution, I stop, go back to the basics and start again from there.

First things first, do a FULL tune up on the vehicle, especially if you haven't done this yet. Obviously, you can just check the stuff you've already replaced, but if it hasn't been replaced by you in the last year or so, then do so now!

Plugs
Wires
Cap & rotor
Oil and filter change
Air filter change
Reset the ecu (unplug ecu for at least 10-20 minutes, longer is better)
Reset timing according to manual (don't forget short connector)
Check valve clearance

That's the full maintenance checklist. Now, time to do some investigating again. Do a quick check over all the vacuum lines, make sure there's no leaks or disconnected hoses. Test the TPS as per the manual. Test the afm also, make sure everything is working correctly there too. If you have one, do a compression or leak down test with your tester, always good to see if all is okay with the cylinders and valves closing properly.

When you pulled the plugs last, what did they tell you? White? Black? Sooty? Oily? Wet? Broken? A plug can tell you so many things about how the engine is running.

Now you can get down to the issue at-hand. You've already replaced most of the fuel delivery system, but you used some non-oem parts, so now its time to question whether those are actually good or not. Don't believe new parts go bad? Read up on some of this forum, you'll find a good deal of people who have used parts from AutoZone and other stores that didn't work or failed within days, but putting an oem part back in worked perfectly! And don't think the oem stuff won't fail either! They do, just not usual for this to happen.

Start from one end and test it all the way through. Fuel pump. Fuel lines. Fuel filter. Fuel rail. Injectors. Regulator. Return line. Charcoal canister.

Now, hit the electrical stuff. Again, injectors. Resistor pack. Fuses (I like to give 'em a good flick or light whack with a screwdriver handle, make sure they are solid and not intermittently shorting or breaking connection). Sensors (water temp, o2, oil pressure, all of 'em since you're there testing anyways).

It has to be somewhere in this whole list! There's really nothing left, aside from a failing ecu, which normally either works or it doesn't, but don't rule it out either.

You initially said this never happened until you put a load on the engine, then it just cut out. That still tells me that its gotta be electrical, usually sputtering will be mechanical, like fuel isn't being delivered constantly and at a regulated flow, if it was an on/off type of thing, then I still believe its electrical somewhere. Poke and prod around all the wiring while the engine is running. Yanking on all the wire looms (lightly of course!) may turn up a short or broken wire.

Almost all of this stuff is free to do, and I always say do the free stuff first, chances are you'll find the issue before you spend any money on unnecessary parts. come back and report your findings if something's not right. The guys here on t4r.org are pretty damned smart and they have fixed almost every person's dilemma, most of the time within hours!
 
I never heard back from LCE about what caused the gauge to fail (I did send the first one back, but I didn't bother sending the second one back). As noted, the NT gauge I replaced those with has worked for several months.

The fuel pump could have had a problem, as it could have been cutting out intermittently. It's hard to catch that, since the pressure gauge is under the hood. Even new fuel pumps aren't immune. Long story - In less than 3 years, I'm on fuel pump #9 in my '87 runner, putting just over 45K miles on it in that span. The previous 8 were confirmed failures, based on pressure (or lack of it). One of them lasted for less than 15 seconds. And two of the 8 were denso. I installed a brand new tank prior to any pump failures, and installed a new pump pre-filter as well as the block-side fuel filter. Three of the failed pumps were frozen and wouldn't pump any more, while the rest still pumped fuel, but output pressure was maxed at only 10 to 15 psi, which isn't enough. The pump can also have a failure of the backflow check valve, which allows pressure to drop immediately when the pump is off (but shouldn't really impact high-throttle running).

Your initial post description of the symptoms mimics fuel starvation - pretty much what happened with mine as each pump failed. I wouldn't rule the fuel supply out just yet, although if the gauge shows around 30psi, you should be getting fuel.

If your exhaust isn't visibly rich and you aren't smelling strong raw fuel (especially during warm starts), the injectors probably aren't leaking significantly, nor is your FPR vacuum line likely leaking. However, if they aren't flowing ENOUGH fuel, you might get the high-throttle bog that you seem to be experiencing. If you have the tools, you'll need to remove the injectors and test them according to the FSM. Me, I sent mine to a few places. First to witchhunter, and then after two of the cleaned injectors failed within 2 weeks, I bought 2 "new" injectors, sent the 2 still working injectors for cleaning again (to Injectorman), and they've worked well since then. If you haven't verified/tested the flow rates and patterns of the injectors, that might be a good place to investigate. Injector cleaning is a maintenance item, especially if the engine isn't used often, or has high miles.

wally
 
Your initial post description of the symptoms mimics fuel starvation...

Turns out the issue was that the previous mechanic installed my fuel filter backwards. I found this out after checking into the fuel filter when it occurred to me that my fuel pressure suddenly dropping with throttle was a sign of starvation, as noted by several members here.

I swapped the filter with a new one, installed in the right direction, and BOOM, PROBLEM FIXED. I was so relieved... :)

Thank you all for sticking with me through this. It means a lot!!

Come visit me in Kansas City sometime.

~Doug
 

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