Procharger install thread (this will take awhile)

[rdruss]

It's awesome to see another SC option available. The install looks clean and the quality good.

For me personally, I think the Magnuson SC is the better option for a vehicle like this. I prefer the power curve and packaging especially with the charge air cooler under the SC. Lastly, I have a sour taste in my mouth fixing so many friend's Procharged Mustangs and Camaros years ago that would shred and/or lose belts or kill idler pullies every 5K miles. Maybe they've improved things. It's unfortunate because Procharger is only about 15 miles from me.

Not disputing what you say, but it seems to me that the Magnuson would be tougher on belts than the Procharger. You can spin the Procharger by hand pretty easily can't you? Mustang/Camaro guys probably put a "dime sized" pulley on the Pro for more boost.

 

[Bmnorm2]

A centrifugal supercharger requires significantly less power than a roots or twin screw when comparing similar mass flow rates. Regardless, too much belt tension will result in failed pulleys/bearings/bolts or the belt itself. It sure as hell won’t break your crank.

Anyone who’s only claim of failing engines due to increased power and only mentions “cranks” can immediately be ignored. Crankshaft failure is the least likely.


OP - please keep us posted on fuel economy and all of your observations and experiences with the Pro Charger. Thanks for sharing and not being afraid of failing your crank.

A Rotrex kit would be nice...

 

[scratchhax]

500 mile gear oil change update

I just did the 500 mile break in oil change and, so far, the only broken crank in the garage is me

Changing the oil was easy and procharger included a total of 4 oil changes worth of stuff. It came with the drain relocation kit installed so there is a valve that hangs just low enough that you can put a catch bottle on top of the front skid plate and just let it drain the 6oz of oil into that. The filling process is just remove the dipstick and squirt in another 6oz of oil. This type of SC needs the oil changed every 5k miles, so every tire rotation I'll swap out the fluid and bang out the air filter. Grand total of 10 minutes to do both.

The sounds have mellowed out a bit but the 1gr-fe just doesn't make enough noise with stock exhaust to even out the SC whine. It's hella loud at idle but god it sounds good when you get into it. So I just bought the Magnaflow 19546 catback and I'll bolt that on Monday .

Fuel economy is still off the charts. I'm hitting 22 with mixed highway/city driving and approaching 23.5 on the highway at 70mph. Now do keep in mind, I drive real easy. I don't speed, I don't generally dash from the stoplights and I spend a fair bit of time on the highway. I was consistently getting 21 before I added all the weight to my rig so this isn't out of line for me.

I have turned my pedal commander back on. With it off, there is that lovely dead spot when you stomp on the gas while you wait for the throttle body to open. Being able to hear the SC really makes that more pronounced (it's not, you just feel like it is because you get used to hearing every little move of the motor based on the whine). Shift points are a little wonky with the pedal commander and the SC, so I may have to play around with that a bit, we'll see.

First offroad trip is planned for late June when a big project I'm working on wraps up at work. Previous to the SC I was pricing out regearing but have decided it doesn't make sense anymore, I have plenty of power on tap.

 

[Charles Bronson]

Not disputing what you say, but it seems to me that the Magnuson would be tougher on belts than the Procharger. You can spin the Procharger by hand pretty easily can't you? Mustang/Camaro guys probably put a "dime sized" pulley on the Pro for more boost.

Not really. Belts and pulleys, SC or not, require very tight and uniform alignment. The issue is most centrifugal SCs tend to have more complex mounting and pulley systems and have the SC unit offset to the side some distance compared to most roots/screw type blowers that sit directly on the motor. With the SC offset and dangling on a mounting bracket, it is very difficult to get the pulleys and belts in perfect alignment. Alignment issues tend to cause excessive belt and pulley bearing wear.

OEMs use roots/screw type blowers for this reason as well as packaging and overall reliability. For all out power on the track, a centrifugal SC wins. For drag racing, most competitive racecars run roots/screw type blowers. IMO, if you're going to go with a centrifugal SC, you might as well go with turbo as it has WAY few moving parts and gives you massive low and midrange power plus a topend charge. Most everyone has gone turbo, both in the OEM and aftermarket.

And please don't take any of this the wrong way and I think it's great that we have more power options for these trucks. It's quite possible that this Procharger unit is super reliable.

 

[scratchhax]

It's a good point. I do have this massive 1 inch thick bracket hanging off the side of the motor now and the bottom pulley had to be swapped out to make this work. If you aren't careful you can cause some real premature wear by being out of alignment. Thankfully I have a good local shop and as near as I can tell everything is spot on.

Not really. Belts and pulleys, SC or not, require very tight and uniform alignment. The issue is most centrifugal SCs tend to have more complex mounting and pulley systems and have the SC unit offset to the side some distance compared to most roots/screw type blowers that sit directly on the motor. With the SC offset and dangling on a mounting bracket, it is very difficult to get the pulleys and belts in perfect alignment. Alignment issues tend to cause excessive belt and pulley bearing wear.

OEMs use roots/screw type blowers for this reason as well as packaging and overall reliability. For all out power on the track, a centrifugal SC wins. For drag racing, most competitive racecars run roots/screw type blowers. IMO, if you're going to go with a centrifugal SC, you might as well go with turbo as it has WAY few moving parts and gives you massive low and midrange power plus a topend charge. Most everyone has gone turbo, both in the OEM and aftermarket.

And please don't take any of this the wrong way and I think it's great that we have more power options for these trucks. It's quite possible that this Procharger unit is super reliable.

 

[Pho thit cho]

It's a good point. I do have this massive 1 inch thick bracket hanging off the side of the motor now and the bottom pulley had to be swapped out to make this work. If you aren't careful you can cause some real premature wear by being out of alignment. Thankfully I have a good local shop and as near as I can tell everything is spot on.

Any dyno numbers yet?

 

[RunTheJoules]

It’s not uncommon on centrifugally supercharged cars with tons of belt tension.

It must be pretty uncommon cause I've never heard of anyone snapping a crankshaft under any circumstances... I've blown out clutches, rearends, and transmissions myself, and seen others twist driveshafts, bend rods, snap belts, etc. But not one case if the crank breaking. :rofl:

 

[scratchhax]

Not yet. They should have everything fixed up in the next few weeks (going back to the same shop because the re-run will be free) and I'm scheduled for June 9th.

Any dyno numbers yet?

 

[91foxbody]

It must be pretty uncommon cause I've never heard of anyone snapping a crankshaft under any circumstances... I've blown out clutches, rearends, and transmissions myself, and seen others twist driveshafts, bend rods, snap belts, etc. But not one case if the crank breaking. :rofl:

Cranks snap at the snout on many supercharged cars. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but the additional torque applied to the front of the crank from the pulley for driving the supercharger can be a problem on many engines.

ProCharger/Broken Crank Snout | Team Chevelle

Anyone break the crankshaft nose with supercharger? - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Please post your experience with Cracked Crank from Supercharger - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

 

[scratchhax]

24 mpg

No I haven't been dogging it at 60, traffic was slowing down on I70 and it felt like a safe time to take a shot, usually it's 70 at least. But there we go. it's official, my fully armored, steel bumpered, roof racked 3 inch lift 33x11.5 4runner is getting at least 23 mpg city/highway.

 

[Jacabbysal]

Cranks snap at the snout on many supercharged cars. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but the additional torque applied to the front of the crank from the pulley for driving the supercharger can be a problem on many engines.

ProCharger/Broken Crank Snout | Team Chevelle

Anyone break the crankshaft nose with supercharger? - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Please post your experience with Cracked Crank from Supercharger - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

All of your examples seems to be sbc with know issues and/or over tension according to the post you provided. So I don't think that qualifies as "many engines". More of a issues with specific engines. I have personal experience driving a Jeep with this type of SC and other then it having weird shifting characteristics it was fine, and I abused it for 20k miles.

 

[scratchhax]

Final update (until the dyno run, or something breaks)

The MPG honeymoon is over. A lot of it must have come from me being more aware of what the engine was doing and driving it like a hypermiler. Having said that, I'm still right at 20mpg which includes a few spirited dashes onto the highway.
The noise has mellowed out a lot, but it's still gonna get you looks in every single parking lot. Be prepared to talk about your power steering pump fluid levels.
The magnaflow exhaust is far louder in the cab than the supercharger when you are under load, the supercharger is louder when you aren't.
The procharger gear oil isn't easy to find, so I carry an extra bottle with me in the truck just in case. It's only 6oz so it's pretty portable. I also carry some octane booster on the off chance I get into some crap or mislabeled gas.

Would I do it again?
In a heartbeat. It woke up the 4runner and it went from being a lumbering brick to being a lumbering brick with a jet pack strapped to it. It's so much fun to drive now and just feels like it wants to go on an adventure.

I'll for sure be at overland expo east in october if anyone is out that way and wants to check it out. I might be at mountain west , we'll see what the work schedule allows.

 

[scratchhax]

Dyno run

THESE ARE INTERNET HERO NUMBERS. DO NOT BUY A SC BECAUSE THE STONKS ARE GREEN!

Okie dokie folks, Dyno run is in. They cut at 5900 instead of 6200 like the new rev limiter is set to, so we left about 20 to 30 hp on the table, but the numbers are looking like.....

I don't have a stock run, so I'm going to use [MENTION=114416]Gecko[/MENTION] post from here for baselines of
196hp @5400 RPM
220lb-ft @ 4450 RPM

After the procharger at the wheels
302.97hp @ 5900 RPM
284.65lb-ft @ 4730 RPM

Ignore the red line. that was the previous Dyno run when the Dyno was broken.

So if you want to extrapolate that to the crank using
196hp (tested) vs 270hp (toyota rated) = 28% driveline loss (we're gonna call it 25)
that puts us to 378hp at the crank or right at 100hp gain. Procharger expects it to be closer to 125hp and I believe that was lost because we cut the dyno run before we hit redline.
Also, still no broken crank

 

[Charles Bronson]

Gecko's run was on a Dyncom dyno and yours a Dynojet. To make for a more apples to apples comparison, I would compare Dynojet runs. Plus, it's been my experience over 25 years of racing, modding, and dynoing cars that Dynojets tend to produce the most consistent numbers as the way the machine operates and calculates power is extremely simple plus the Dynojet corrects for atmospheric conditions.

A 28% drivetrain loss would be unexpected, even for a 4runner. My RWD 6MT BMW M235 has a loss of around 12%. Given that the 4runner is RWD, but spinning through a transfer case, and heavier wheels/tires, a ~15% loss would be more likely. I could see ~20% in 4HI or 18% for a 4runner Limited that's spinning through an AWD-like system.

The Dynojet runs I've seen for stock 5th gen 4runners show ~230whp and ~240wtq. Assuming a 15% drivetrain loss when running in RWD mode, that calculates out be very close to the advertised power of 270hp/280tq (divide the Dynojet number by 0.85). Per the link below, this stock 5th gen 4runner saw 231whp/237wtq. We know Toyota doesn't underrate or overrate their power numbers except for the new Supra which is severely underrated since it's basically a BMW and BMW severely underrates their power numbers. Usually what's reported as the flywheel power is close to the power made to the wheels on most late model turbo BMWs.

Should you Supercharge your 4Runner? Magnuson Supercharger Review


So, for your dyno, it looks like around 356hp and 335tq at the flywheel or about about +86hp and +55tq over stock. I also agree with you, your truck would have likely seen more HP and TQ if could be revved another few hundred rpms. I'd bet 10-15whp/wtq is missing.

Procharger advertises a 40-45% gain over stock with their standard kit for the 5th Runner. They're pretty close to their claims. Your 4runner could have been heat soaked which could account for slightly less power plus the matter with the stock vs new redline.

2020-2010 4Runner (4.0) | ProCharger


Admittedly, the Procharger powerband is better than I was expecting.

 

[scratchhax]

Good to know. I had a second run that was a "before" on the same dyno, but that is how we figured out the dyno was busted. It said I produced 500ft-lbs at 1100 RPM . While that would be amazing......... yeah.

I had always seen 15 to 20 % on the drivetrain, but swagged it from geckos run vs what toyota quotes.

I may someday do another run, but TBH I'm happy with how it performs and a few more dots on a graph won't make me happier

Thanks for the knowledge, I'm not a speedshop guy but I always appreciate experience

Gecko's run was on a Dyncom dyno and yours a Dynojet. To make for a more apples to apples comparison, I would compare Dynojet runs. Plus, it's been my experience over 25 years of racing, modding, and dynoing cars that Dynojets tend to produce the most consistent numbers as the way the machine operates and calculates power is extremely simple plus the Dynojet corrects for atmospheric conditions.

A 28% drivetrain loss would be unexpected, even for a 4runner. My RWD 6MT BMW M235 has a loss of around 12%. Given that the 4runner is RWD, but spinning through a transfer case, and heavier wheels/tires, a ~15% loss would be more likely. I could see ~20% in 4HI or 18% for a 4runner Limited that's spinning through an AWD-like system.

The Dynojet runs I've seen for stock 5th gen 4runners show ~230whp and ~240wtq. Assuming a 15% drivetrain loss when running in RWD mode, that calculates out be very close to the advertised power of 270hp/280tq (divide the Dynojet number by 0.85). Per the link below, this stock 5th gen 4runner saw 231whp/237wtq. We know Toyota doesn't underrate or overrate their power numbers except for the new Supra which is severely underrated since it's basically a BMW and BMW severely underrates their power numbers. Usually what's reported as the flywheel power is close to the power made to the wheels on most late model turbo BMWs.

Should you Supercharge your 4Runner? Magnuson Supercharger Review


So, for your dyno, it looks like around 356hp and 335tq at the flywheel or about about +86hp and +55tq over stock. I also agree with you, your truck would have likely seen more HP and TQ if could be revved another few hundred rpms. I'd bet 10-15whp/wtq is missing.

Procharger advertises a 40-45% gain over stock with their standard kit for the 5th Runner. They're pretty close to their claims. Your 4runner could have been heat soaked which could account for slightly less power plus the matter with the stock vs new redline.

2020-2010 4Runner (4.0) | ProCharger


Admittedly, the Procharger powerband is better than I was expecting.

 

[TrailRunnin14]

Very similar to what Magnuson claims for our 5th gens. I believe their numbers are 351hp and 355tq. With the Procharger, I’m sure you would have seen bigger gains with higher rpm’s. Always interested to see the dyno numbers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[scratchhax]

It's great that we have 3 options now for our rigs! I haven't seen a URD engine in person yet, but would love to someday.

Very similar to what Magnuson claims for our 5th gens. I believe their numbers are 351hp and 355tq. With the Procharger, I’m sure you would have seen bigger gains with higher rpm’s. Always interested to see the dyno numbers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[the_fornicator]

Oh man, this thread has helped a lot, thanks! My D1SC is being shipped shortly and I'm excited.

Are you still running the stock fuel pump? I read that you've done some data logging. With the stock fuel pump, I'm curious how it's been able to keep up with demand..

Anything break yet? And the procharger oil, awesome tip to keep a spare bottle around. Can you only buy it from procharger directly?

Thanks!

 

[Friggin Idiot]

I don't have a stock run, so I'm going to use [MENTION=114416]Gecko[/MENTION] post from here for baselines of
196hp @5400 RPM
220lb-ft @ 4450 RPM

After the procharger at the wheels
302.97hp @ 5900 RPM
284.65lb-ft @ 4730 RPM

So if you want to extrapolate that to the crank using
196hp (tested) vs 270hp (toyota rated) = 28% driveline loss (we're gonna call it 25)
that puts us to 378hp at the crank or right at 100hp gain. Procharger expects it to be closer to 125hp and I believe that was lost because we cut the dyno run before we hit redline.

I had always seen 15 to 20 % on the drivetrain,but swagged it from geckos run vs what toyota quotes.

It's great that we have 3 options now for our rigs! I haven't seen a URD engine in person yet, but would love to someday.

Thank you for posting real numbers for the ProCharger CF SC. I was curious how it stacked up to my URD SC dyno run. I was impressed that the HP numbers were that high, although did wonder about the TQ gains based on different design. Sorry to hear about your crank troubles in the process. I wonder how it does at the low end under load, like hauling a boat up the ramp at the lake? Or towing up in the mountains?
As for drivetrain loss, they measured mine as part of the dyno run and come up right at about 20% for RWD.
My friend was planning on dragging me to ExpoEast, but I can't get the time off of work to go of course. I'd be interested to see how ours stood side by side!