Pulling Right after lift, UCA's and several alignments

[alexb]

So I got my Toytec BOSS lift installed with 255/80/17 tires and my alignment was way off, as expected. Got the SPC Light Racing UCA's installed over the weekend, went back to the alignment shop today and they got everything to spec, but it's still pulling hard to the right. The tech said he doesn't know what the problem is. He adjusted it 3 times and spent over an hour working on it, but no luck. He tried rotating tires to see if it was a tire issue but no difference. Here's the final numbers it is set at. He said with these specs it should even be pulling to the left slightly.



Anyone have any ideas why it would be pulling right so much? Would getting the caster closer to 4* like everyone seems to recommend make any difference? I could live with a slight drift to one side, but it's enough where you have to keep the wheel pulled to the left to keep it straight down the road.

 

[Ducmonsta]

There's something wrong with the installation or your truck. The SAI (steering axis inclination) is WAYYY TOO high. The left side either has the ball joint installed incorrectly or the complete strut "clocked" wrong. I don't recall if our strut assembly mounts are a perfect triangle. The 3 studs or bolts that mount the top of the strut form a triangle. I can't remember for the life of me whether or not it matters. Maybe [MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION] can chime in to remind me.

But either way, something is not right and for once, I don't think it's the alignment techs problem.

 

[1engineer]

There's something wrong with the installation or your truck. The SAI (steering axis inclination) is WAYYY TOO high. The left side either has the ball joint installed incorrectly or the complete strut "clocked" wrong. I don't recall if our strut assembly mounts are a perfect triangle. The 3 studs or bolts that mount the top of the strut form a triangle. I can't remember for the life of me whether or not it matters. Maybe [MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION] can chime in to remind me.

But either way, something is not right and for once, I don't think it's the alignment techs problem.

Yep.

 

[alexb]

There's something wrong with the installation or your truck. The SAI (steering axis inclination) is WAYYY TOO high. The left side either has the ball joint installed incorrectly or the complete strut "clocked" wrong. I don't recall if our strut assembly mounts are a perfect triangle. The 3 studs or bolts that mount the top of the strut form a triangle. I can't remember for the life of me whether or not it matters. Maybe [MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION] can chime in to remind me.

But either way, something is not right and for once, I don't think it's the alignment techs problem.

Dang, that doesn't sound good. Here is my alignment sheet after the lift and before UCA's.



The struts are installed with the "TOYTEC" logo facing out on both sides. I didn't see any indication when installing on if they were side specific. Is it possible I need to switch them? Is there anything special to installing the ball joints for the SPC UCAs? I just inserted them, attached the bolt, torqued to the specs on the instructions, and put in the cotter pin.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Interesting for sure, judging by purely the sheet, which is only part of the picture, it might barely pull to the right due to the negative camber on the left and and positive camber on the right. However, caster is really low for having the adjustable UCAs. Those specs are about what i get without UCAs.

Honestly I be the steering wheel is off center. I noticed he isn't doing a 4 wheel alignment. while the rear isn't adjustable at all, Most modern alignment machines have programming in them to adjust toe which takes into consideration the angles on the rear axis. What this means in layman's terms, Using the computer, your rear axle could be angled to one side and the computer will compensate for it. with out the compensation the truck would then pull the to opposite side that the axle is angled.

I doubt that the rear axle on your truck is tweaked but anything is possible.

Does the truck drive straight when you hold the wheel straight? Can you get the truck to drive straight with out holding on to the wheel, regardless of the position?

 

[alexb]

Interesting for sure, judging by purely the sheet, which is only part of the picture, it might barely pull to the right due to the negative camber on the left and and positive camber on the right. However, caster is really low for having the adjustable UCAs. Those specs are about what i get without UCAs.

Honestly I be the steering wheel is off center. I noticed he isn't doing a 4 wheel alignment. while the rear isn't adjustable at all, Most modern alignment machines have programming in them to adjust toe which takes into consideration the angles on the rear axis. What this means in layman's terms, Using the computer, your rear axle could be angled to one side and the computer will compensate for it. with out the compensation the truck would then pull the to opposite side that the axle is angled.

I doubt that the rear axle on your truck is tweaked but anything is possible.

Does the truck drive straight when you hold the wheel straight? Can you get the truck to drive straight with out holding on to the wheel, regardless of the position?

Yeah, I asked for them to get it as close to 4* caster as possible, but it seems all they care about is getting it "in spec"

If I hold the wheel straight it pulls to the right and it will not drive straight without holding on to the wheel regardless of position. The only way it will drive straight is holding the wheel "turned to the left" by a few degrees.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Op, are the roads "crowned" where you live?

IMHO, matching the right camber to the left and taking the caster up to 4° may make all the difference. If still pulling, I would start adding caster to the right side in .25° increments. There is a fine line to get it to track straight and not have it dart left when driving on a road with "left handed crown", like a passing lane.

What caster and camber setting are you using on the UCAs?

Also, you may need to specify to the alignment shop you want a 4 wheel or thrust angle alignment.

 

[alexb]

Op, are the roads "crowned" where you live?

IMHO, matching the right camber to the left and taking the caster up to 4° may make all the difference. If still pulling, I would start adding caster to the right side in .25° increments. There is a fine line to get it to track straight and not have it dart left when driving on a road with "left handed crown", like a passing lane.

What caster and camber setting are you using on the UCAs?

Also, you may need to specify to the alignment shop you want a 4 wheel or thrust angle alignment.

Crowned roads or not it doesn't seem to make a difference. I set the UCAs to the D setting for the caster.

Something is definitely not right. I am on the road for work today and it is pulling hard on the highway. I'll be in the next lane in a matter of 5 seconds if I don't hold the wheel.

 

[gm350reratliff]

In the "D" setting, they should easily be able to get 4° of caster. Maybe try a different shop.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Can you post pictures of your upper ball joints, and also where all the LCA cams are set. you can email them to me if it would be easier.

 

[alexb]

Can you post pictures of your upper ball joints, and also where all the LCA cams are set. you can email them to me if it would be easier.

I'll post them up after work this evening.

 

[RCFJ]

I'll post them up after work this evening.

I have no idea if this could cause the issue but I have heard its fairly easy to install the LR UCA on the wrong side ie passenger on driver driver on passenger. The bigger curved side of the UCA points forward

 

[F1scher]

I have no idea if this could cause the issue but I have heard its fairly easy to install the LR UCA on the wrong side ie passenger on driver driver on passenger. The bigger curved side of the UCA points forward

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/1723015-post4684.html

ucas look correct here I think

 

[alexb]

[MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION]

These are the UCAs after I installed them the other day. How do the ball joints look?

 

[Scott@Hightech]

[MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION]

These are the UCAs after I installed them the other day. How do the ball joints look?

thats the same picture twice, either way it appears correct, id like to see them post alignment though

 

[alexb]

thats the same picture twice, either way it appears correct, id like to see them post alignment though

Oops. Yeah the other side looks just the same. I'll get some new pics of them tonight. Thanks for the help.

 

[alexb]

[MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION]

Here are pics of the UCA's and camber/caster bolts you asked for. Let me know if you need any different angles or anything. The camber/caster bolts are looking from the back of the truck towards the front end.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwtaeunx26d3s3w/Suspension.zip

Thanks again

 

[Scott@Hightech]

[MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION]

Here are pics of the UCA's and camber/caster bolts you asked for. Let me know if you need any different angles or anything. The camber/caster bolts are looking from the back of the truck towards the front end.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwtaeunx26d3s3w/Suspension.zip

Thanks again

Those are perfect and im %90 sure what the problem is.

If you will notice on the left side, the upper ball joint is pushed in and the lower control arm eccentrics are cranked all the way out, Essentially they moved the wheel all the way out as far as it could almost and then got the camber close by moving the upper balljoint out further.

Then on the right side, they have the lower control arms cranks all the way in. and then they had to move the upper balljoint inwards to correct the camber some what.

Having the 2 lower cams set in the same position is whats is causing you to have very low caster. The Real problem is that they have effectively shifted the entire front track over to the drivers side. Therefore causing the thrust angle to be WAY off. This would have shown up if they had hung the heads on the rear wheels and did a full alignment like i had mentioned. However unless they know what thrust angle is, they likely would not have figured it out anyway.

A proper alignment should take care of your issue.

 

[alexb]

Those are perfect and im %90 sure what the problem is.

If you will notice on the left side, the upper ball joint is pushed in and the lower control arm eccentrics are cranked all the way out, Essentially they moved the wheel all the way out as far as it could almost and then got the camber close by moving the upper balljoint out further.

Then on the right side, they have the lower control arms cranks all the way in. and then they had to move the upper balljoint inwards to correct the camber some what.

Having the 2 lower cams set in the same position is whats is causing you to have very low caster. The Real problem is that they have effectively shifted the entire front track over to the drivers side. Therefore causing the thrust angle to be WAY off. This would have shown up if they had hung the heads on the rear wheels and did a full alignment like i had mentioned. However unless they know what thrust angle is, they likely would not have figured it out anyway.

A proper alignment should take care of your issue.

Awesome man, thanks a bunch for taking a look. That makes a good amount of sense too. I had a hunch it had something to do with those lower bolts but didn't know enough about it. This is quoted directly from the SPC install instructions

In most cases, it is recommended that the lower eccentrics be
set to their neutral position. This way they can be used to fine-tune caster.

I gave the guy the instructions but I imagine he just ignored them, left things how they were before the UCA's and just started adjusting from there. Looks like I'll be scheduling yet another alignment. I'm thinking this time all try the Firestone by my office instead, as the guy by my house is probably sick of me by now.

Thanks again for the help :cheers:

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Awesome man, thanks a bunch for taking a look. That makes a good amount of sense too. I had a hunch it had something to do with those lower bolts but didn't know enough about it. This is quoted directly from the SPC install instructions



I gave the guy the instructions but I imagine he just ignored them, left things how they were before the UCA's and just started adjusting from there. Looks like I'll be scheduling yet another alignment. I'm thinking this time all try the Firestone by my office instead, as the guy by my house is probably sick of me by now.

Thanks again for the help :cheers:

here is what I would do If I were you. Set the rear LCA cams all the way out.( bolt on the outside, big part of the washer on the inside. Then set the front cam with the bolt at the 5 oclock position( looking from the front of the truck)
Then Eyeball your camber by adjusting your upper balljoints. Then unless the alignment shop is super close, Do a tape measure Toe adjustment(you tube it). That should give them a good base to start from