Pulling Right after lift, UCA's and several alignments

[alexb]

here is what I would do If I were you. Set the rear LCA cams all the way out.( bolt on the outside, big part of the washer on the inside. Then set the front cam with the bolt at the 5 oclock position( looking from the front of the truck)
Then Eyeball your camber by adjusting your upper balljoints. Then unless the alignment shop is super close, Do a tape measure Toe adjustment(you tube it). That should give them a good base to start from

When you say bolt on outside, washer on inside, should I mirror that on the other side? Having the bolt on the outside of the vehicle on both sides and washer on inside for both sides? So for the front, will one side be set at 5 oclock, then the other side set at say 7 olock? So they mirror each other? I just got under there and couldn't even break them loose with my biggest bar, so I'm thinking I'll just drop it off at the alignment shop first thing Saturday morning and tell them this is exactly how I want it done. I'll be on the golf course so they can take all day to get it right if they have to. I just want it set right.

 

[Ducmonsta]

When you say bolt on outside, washer on inside, should I mirror that on the other side? Having the bolt on the outside of the vehicle on both sides and washer on inside for both sides? So for the front, will one side be set at 5 oclock, then the other side set at say 7 olock? So they mirror each other? I just got under there and couldn't even break them loose with my biggest bar, so I'm thinking I'll just drop it off at the alignment shop first thing Saturday morning and tell them this is exactly how I want it done. I'll be on the golf course so they can take all day to get it right if they have to. I just want it set right.

Yes, mirror both sides. You might be able to simplify by asking the technician who is working on it to move the lower ball joint as far forward as possible before even attempting to align it. And as Scott said, 'eyeball' the camber with the upper ball joint. Then move forward with the actual alignment and win toe.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

When you say bolt on outside, washer on inside, should I mirror that on the other side? Having the bolt on the outside of the vehicle on both sides and washer on inside for both sides? So for the front, will one side be set at 5 oclock, then the other side set at say 7 olock? So they mirror each other? I just got under there and couldn't even break them loose with my biggest bar, so I'm thinking I'll just drop it off at the alignment shop first thing Saturday morning and tell them this is exactly how I want it done. I'll be on the golf course so they can take all day to get it right if they have to. I just want it set right.

yes the right front will be at 5 o'clock and the left will be at 7 o'clock on the front cams, sorry.

You do know that only one side of the eccentric loosens up. The front bolt and the Nut on the rear.

 

[alexb]

yes the right front will be at 5 o'clock and the left will be at 7 o'clock on the front cams, sorry.

You do know that only one side of the eccentric loosens up. The front bolt and the Nut on the rear.

OK so I'm giving it another go and got the rears set. the nuts are 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock on the driver and passenger side respectively. now for the fronts should the driver side be at 5 o'clock and passenger side at 7 o'clock or the other way around?

DISREGARD I re read your post and saw where you specified. My bad.

 

[alexb]

OK I've made some progress. I got the lower LCAs set like you said. I'm trying to adjust the toe but can't break loose the tie rod ends for the life of me. My understanding is you loosen the big but on the outside of the tie rod end? That thing will not budge.

 

[Ducmonsta]

OK I've made some progress. I got the lower LCAs set like you said. I'm trying to adjust the toe but can't break loose the tie rod ends for the life of me. My understanding is you loosen the big but on the outside of the tie rod end? That thing will not budge.

One side is left hand threaded. Usually marked with a notch. This is done so you can adjust the tie rod end without removing it.

 

[1engineer]

This thread is better than a episode of Batman - "What is going on with that suspension?" and "Will the good guys be able to properly adjust it in time?" - "Stay tuned for the next ongoing saga!" Scott and Bobby you guys are going above and beyond here. This is what makes this forum a great place guys.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

One side is left hand threaded. Usually marked with a notch. This is done so you can adjust the tie rod end without removing it.

actually most tie rod ends are threaded normally on both sides when there is a steering rack. Yes those large jam nuts can be difficult to break loose. but they are both threaded like a normal nut. grab a piece of pipe or something to give you more leverage.


On steering setups where you have 2 tie rod ends on each side such as a 98-03ford expedition or f150, that is when you will see one side being threaded opposite.

 

[Ducmonsta]

I stand corrected.

This is exactly why people shouldn't listen to everything on a forum.:bolt:

 

[alexb]

**** me I'm about to give up on this thing and return everything back to stock. Firestone looked at it again today after resetting the lower bolt and explaining everything to the guy. Still pulls right after he was done. Caster is even better now, 3.5 and 3.1, everything in spec. Also, when I was driving it the couple miles to the shop after adjusting the lower bolts (toe was way off, I DID drive super slow and be very careful) My traction and multi terrain lights are blinking. I am assuming the wack toe triggered something. Googling it seems like the yaw sensor needs to be recalibrated.

I've got an appt with the Toyota dealer wednesday morning to look at the blinking lights, and to do another 4 wheel alignment to get their opinion on it. Hopefully they can get it figured out and I can go back to Firestone and slap someone across the face.

If not, then I don't know what to do... back to stock I guess

/RANT Long ass day at work doesn't make it any better, I need a whisky.

 

[1engineer]

**** me I'm about to give up on this thing and return everything back to stock. Firestone looked at it again today after resetting the lower bolt and explaining everything to the guy. Still pulls right after he was done. Caster is even better now, 3.5 and 3.1, everything in spec. Also, when I was driving it the couple miles to the shop after adjusting the lower bolts (toe was way off, I DID drive super slow and be very careful) My traction and multi terrain lights are blinking. I am assuming the wack toe triggered something. Googling it seems like the yaw sensor needs to be recalibrated.

I've got an appt with the Toyota dealer wednesday morning to look at the blinking lights, and to do another 4 wheel alignment to get their opinion on it. Hopefully they can get it figured out and I can go back to Firestone and slap someone across the face

If not, then I don't know what to do... back to stock I guess

/RANT Long ass day at work doesn't make it any better, I need a whisky.

How far are you away from [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION] or [MENTION=45399]thebwlife[/MENTION]? Gary is in texas and would really be able to help anyway I think he is probably the most knowledgable that is close, relatively speaking. Give him a pm and see if he has any advice.

 

[shaneotool]

man I sure hope you can get it sorted out.

this is the kind of thing I'm afraid would happen to me.

 

[thebwlife]

How far are you away from [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION] or [MENTION=45399]thebwlife[/MENTION]? Gary is in texas and would really be able to help anyway I think he is probably the most knowledgable that is close, relatively speaking. Give him a pm and see if he has any advice.

I helped (slightly) install the lift and it looked good. I'm kinda lost on why it's doing that. I have to assume it's with the UCA's and not the lift, but if the thing is in alignment front and rear it must be something else.

The recal is pretty easy, but the pulling right I don't get...

 

[alexb]

How far are you away from [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION] or [MENTION=45399]thebwlife[/MENTION]? Gary is in texas and would really be able to help anyway I think he is probably the most knowledgable that is close, relatively speaking. Give him a pm and see if he has any advice.

Well I managed to get the zero point calibration done thanks to this thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...sensor-zero-point-calibration.html#post606007

So that's a slight sigh of relief. Now I'm just back to the alignment, pulling right issue. There is a 4WheelParts about 20 miles south of me, I may call them in the morning and ask about if they can do an alignment. I think they may have better luck since they work with lifted and modified vehicles regularly.
[MENTION=45399]thebwlife[/MENTION] gave me a hand with both the front and rear install of the lift. This isn't my first suspension mod either. I've lifted and lowered a number of vehicles and had fully adjustable racing coilovers on my Infiniti G37 so I'd like to think I got everything installed correctly. Who knows.

I'm gonna sleep on it and make a few phone calls to some places tomorrow.

 

[gm350reratliff]

The alignment tech may have to adjust the caster so it is much higher on the passenger side to get it to quit pulling. So, caster and cross caster may be out of spec but it's nothing to worry about if the other alignment angles are good. I've seen quite a few vehicles that required a big caster split to make them drive straight. It sucks for the alignment tech because it takes time to get it right so he or she may be losing money. Its a trial and error type deal once you lift and the factory alignment specs cause a pull.

Man, I need to invest in my own rack. I've ran into a bunch of folks with alignment issues that nobody can fix lately. That's just the type of thing I used to specialize in at my old job. There is a shop in Albuquerque that could probably get it right for you but I know that's a long ways away just for an alignment.

 

[1engineer]

Well I managed to get the zero point calibration done thanks to this thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...sensor-zero-point-calibration.html#post606007

So that's a slight sigh of relief. Now I'm just back to the alignment, pulling right issue. There is a 4WheelParts about 20 miles south of me, I may call them in the morning and ask about if they can do an alignment. I think they may have better luck since they work with lifted and modified vehicles regularly.

[MENTION=45399]thebwlife[/MENTION] gave me a hand with both the front and rear install of the lift. This isn't my first suspension mod either. I've lifted and lowered a number of vehicles and had fully adjustable racing coilovers on my Infiniti G37 so I'd like to think I got everything installed correctly. Who knows.

I'm gonna sleep on it and make a few phone calls to some places tomorrow.

If everything is installed correctly AND the alignment is done correctly AND it still pulls hard to the right then you have something bent my friend. It could be a LCA, UCA or even a mount but if everything is correct that is the only thing left.

 

[thebwlife]

If everything is installed correctly AND the alignment is done correctly AND it still pulls hard to the right then you have something bent my friend. It could be a LCA, UCA or even a mount but if everything is correct that is the only thing left.

That's kinda what I mean. Something isn't right... If everything is on then we have a problem.

Also one of the bad things about the LR UCAs too many adjustments. That's why I recommend the Camburgs. Mine out of spec on alignment (caster) goes straight it's just a bit loose. I'm wondering if the narrow tires also exaggerate any issues...

Need to have that rear alignment checked too, probably fine but need to know to eliminate it...

 

[Jeremy556]

Put both of your upper ball joints into the same position and get another alignment. Your driver's side ball joint is slid much further towards the center of the vehicle than the passenger side, hence the out of whack secondary angles.

The sliding ball joint will allow the alignment tech to easily correct camber, but unless something is badly bent, they should be close enough that you can't eyeball the difference between them. My suspicion is they were set where they are now during installation and never adjusted. Make sure to torque to spec on that bolt.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Put both of your upper ball joints into the same position and get another alignment. Your driver's side ball joint is slid much further towards the center of the vehicle than the passenger side, hence the out of whack secondary angles.

The sliding ball joint will allow the alignment tech to easily correct camber, but unless something is badly bent, they should be close enough that you can't eyeball the difference between them. My suspicion is they were set where they are now during installation and never adjusted. Make sure to torque to spec on that bolt.

I agree.

I would set them both to the middle of the slotted hole in the UCA. At the least just make sure they are the same from side to side. The torque spec is 150 ft/lbs, IIRC.

I don't believe you have anything bent at this point. Although, it could be possible the UCAs were welded off a bit but there should be plenty of adjustment to compensate for that. Simply put, I think you have experienced a lazy and/or inexperienced alignment tech.

 

[alexb]

That's kinda what I mean. Something isn't right... If everything is on then we have a problem.

Also one of the bad things about the LR UCAs too many adjustments. That's why I recommend the Camburgs. Mine out of spec on alignment (caster) goes straight it's just a bit loose. I'm wondering if the narrow tires also exaggerate any issues...

Need to have that rear alignment checked too, probably fine but need to know to eliminate it...

Put both of your upper ball joints into the same position and get another alignment. Your driver's side ball joint is slid much further towards the center of the vehicle than the passenger side, hence the out of whack secondary angles.


The sliding ball joint will allow the alignment tech to easily correct camber, but unless something is badly bent, they should be close enough that you can't eyeball the difference between them. My suspicion is they were set where they are now during installation and never adjusted. Make sure to torque to spec on that bolt.

I agree.

I would set them both to the middle of the slotted hole in the UCA. At the least just make sure they are the same from side to side. The torque spec is 150 ft/lbs, IIRC.

I don't believe you have anything bent at this point. Although, it could be possible the UCAs were welded off a bit but there should be plenty of adjustment to compensate for that. Simply put, I think you have experienced a lazy and/or inexperienced alignment tech.

I got a call today from Allen at SPC. He is a very knowledgeable guy and teaches alignment classes to new techs. He said from looking at my info sheets, and the large inconsistency in SAI, it is more than likely a lazy tech, or an alignment machine that has not been maintained. The numbers he sees point to a right pull more than anything, not a left pull like the Firestone tech told me (maybe he was dyslexic?) Considering the age of the vehicle, he highly doubted it is a bent or loose part. His biggest bet is on the plates on the machine not being maintained and sticking during the alignment process.

I will be taking it in to Eurosport in Norman OK tomorrow morning. These guys have an amazing reputation with working on high end exotic and modified cars and have some of the best equipment in the industry. They are the go to place for guys with lowered and racing suspension for alignments so I'm hoping they can handle a lifted 4runner no problem.

Here's an example of what they put up on their alignment machines

Thank you for everyone's help in this thread. Hoping tomorrow we can finally but an end to it. Fingers crossed.