Pulls to the right when braking...

[rd337]

Hello! I'm new here, bought a 3rd gen just before christmas.
My buddy owned it for 5 years before I bought it from him and I did most of the maintenance on it. Couple of years ago he said it pulls hard to the right when braking. It was scary. I found that the LCA bushings were shot, so we replaced them and had an alignment done.
The truck still pulls to the right after but about 25% as badly as it did before we replaced the arms.
He said it's good enough and he was hoping to get a newer truck soon so that brings me till now.
I wanted to fix this pull and go offroading with it so decided it's time to make things reliable. New tierod ends, did the steering rack bushing update, 2.5" lift, checked the balljoints, and an alignment. New pads and rotors, all the calliper pistons moved with ease, fluid flush, new brake lines.

It STILL pulls to the right.
Here's more details.
If I shift down or use the e-brake to slow down, it doesn't pull.
It pulls with the brake pedal. The harder i press it and the faster I am going, the more violent the pull.
It doesn't pull in the traditional sense that it tries to turn the steering wheel to the right.
It pulls in the sense that in order for me to stay straight as i apply my brakes, i have to turn the steering to the left, approximately 1/4 turn under normal braking.

That last point makes me believe that my front UCA bushings are just to plush now.

Is this a common problem?
What's your input?


Thanks guys!!

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Have the lower ball joints ever been replaced?

 

[BlackCat914]

Using the ebrake would indicate the rear brakes are adjusted properly, at least left to right. Have you done the basics like making sure it doesn't have a bad caliper before you get into suspension bushings? Bad bushings can amplify the feelings of other underlying issues.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Hello! I'm new here, bought a 3rd gen just before christmas.
My buddy owned it for 5 years before I bought it from him and I did most of the maintenance on it. Couple of years ago he said it pulls hard to the right when braking. It was scary. I found that the LCA bushings were shot, so we replaced them and had an alignment done.
The truck still pulls to the right after but about 25% as badly as it did before we replaced the arms.
He said it's good enough and he was hoping to get a newer truck soon so that brings me till now.
I wanted to fix this pull and go offroading with it so decided it's time to make things reliable. New tierod ends, did the steering rack bushing update, 2.5" lift, checked the balljoints, and an alignment. New pads and rotors, all the calliper pistons moved with ease, fluid flush, new brake lines.

It STILL pulls to the right.
Here's more details.
If I shift down or use the e-brake to slow down, it doesn't pull.
It pulls with the brake pedal. The harder i press it and the faster I am going, the more violent the pull.
It doesn't pull in the traditional sense that it tries to turn the steering wheel to the right.
It pulls in the sense that in order for me to stay straight as i apply my brakes, i have to turn the steering to the left, approximately 1/4 turn under normal braking.

That last point makes me believe that my front UCA bushings are just to plush now.

Is this a common problem?
What's your input?


Thanks guys!!

Many variables, but assuming your brakes are functioning correctly and have no worn suspension parts, this would be an indication of high cross caster. Again, I assumed all the basics are ok. There are brake dynos that can tell you a lot really quickly, but not many shops have them. I only know of a few in Southern California.

Of course with worn bushing or ball joints the caster angle changes under braking, so there you go.

:keyboard:

 

[reelamin]

E brake really doesnt say much other then it works unless you put a ton of pressure applying it. The Hydraulics apply considerably more for rolling friction. We run our E Brakes for actual braking all the time at all kinds of different speeds and they will work but suck compared to hydraulic pressure.
Same as the components you checked. The may move fine by compression and hand movement, but under pressure is where things really show up. Just listing the areas I would check and or fix in the never ending search for your GREMLIN.
Keep searching the internet and maybe someone really knows and can convince you they are not just throwing goofy info out because it sounds good.
I would start with checking your ball joints, steering components, etc. for noticeable poroblems. Some times it requires a pry bar to get things to show up with a problem.
Now because you have the front end up of the gournd anyway check your front pads for even wear. Rotors...do they look the same...any noticeable surface difference.
I am guessing it does the pull at all speeds, so get a baseline at a lower speed. Now start pinching off brake lines one then two at a time. This should really get it narrowed down to problem location.
Start changing what the testing has shown to be the highest probablility of problem. The issue could be farther up the brake lines to your proportioning valve to your master cylinder.
The brake line pinching should help the most in isolating the problem if it is in the braking system. Good luck!

 

[rd337]

I've had 3 licensed mechanics look at the front end already, one of them being an alignment specialist who did so on a loaded situation. they all agreed that all the ball joints and bushings looks and feels fine even tho I have not replaced upper or lower ball joints on this truck before.
The only concerns that showed up was the steering rack bushing being a little squishy so those were replaced with poly bushings.

I had the pads off to retract the pistons, all of them moved with ease. Stepped on the brakes several times with the pads out, all of them came out and back in with ease.

I'd imagine that if it was my brake callipers, wouldn't my steering wheel remain straight for the vehicle to track straight? and since I have to turn left for the vehicle to track straight, that means my toe angles must be going towards the right when I'm under braking?

I think I'm just going to replace my lower ball joints anyways then uca if that doesn't solve it......

 

[168981]

I've been noticing a pull to the right as well. Is this an indication that I should replace the LBJs? 220k and I think it's still the same LBJs

 

[reelamin]

I've had 3 licensed mechanics look at the front end already, one of them being an alignment specialist who did so on a loaded situation. they all agreed that all the ball joints and bushings looks and feels fine even tho I have not replaced upper or lower ball joints on this truck before.
The only concerns that showed up was the steering rack bushing being a little squishy so those were replaced with poly bushings.

I had the pads off to retract the pistons, all of them moved with ease. Stepped on the brakes several times with the pads out, all of them came out and back in with ease.

I'd imagine that if it was my brake callipers, wouldn't my steering wheel remain straight for the vehicle to track straight? and since I have to turn left for the vehicle to track straight, that means my toe angles must be going towards the right when I'm under braking?

I think I'm just going to replace my lower ball joints anyways then uca if that doesn't solve it......

I think you have brake application differences. If you apply only one front brake it is going to pull big time. Your can noticeably increase or decrease the turning of a vehicle just by loading or unloading the front suspension. If you can do that with a little throttle a bad proportioning valve or caliper will do more. Just one opinion but please post up what you find is the problem or solution.

 

[chimpy]

So let's say you are driving on a theoretically perfect flat stretch of road and let go of the steering wheel; does the 4runner wander to the right? If not and the pull to the right only happens while braking, I would tend to believe that the right caliper is applying faster/sooner than the left. This could mean that the left caliper has piston issues or that the right side is not retracting back fully which would cause the right side to make contact sooner when the brakes are applied.

 

[4eigner]

To help rule out the brakes you could take a temperature gun to each corner after stopping from highway speeds to look for any significant temperature difference from either side.

 

[repo]

Do the LBJs regardless. I asked the dealership to check mine while I was there a few weeks ago because of a torn boot, they said they were fine with no play.

I had replaced them 2 or 3 years ago with moogs or something like that (says 555) and they had less than 10k on them. I didn't trust the torn boot though so I changed them myself to OEM last week and the it scared the crap out of me when I looked at the old ones, the one with the intact boot was actually worse. It feels and sounds like it is packed with gravel instead of grease.

 

[rd337]

Brakes feels great. pistons all move in and out perfectly. temperatures all within a few degrees of each other.

I busted an inner cv boot so with 250000km on the truck and having heard of them being a somewhat common failure when wheeled hard, I figured a pair of $86 napa life time warranty shafts would be nice, leaving me with one good backup shaft. While I was at it I also replaced the lower ball joints. Napa premium which turned out to be made in japan by 555, again lifetime warranty so should I feel the slightest play every year or two I can just spend the 30 minutes to replace them LOL

It's still pulling to the right and only under braking. Otherwise truck feels great.
I'm almost certain its a change in alignment angle under braking for 2 reasons. The truck drives straight and when I apply the brakes I have to turn the wheel 1/4 to the left for the truck to continue straight. And when it's wet out and I'm braking over painted lines or other slippery surfaces, my tires screech even under moderate braking.

Ordered some light racing SPC UCA. Will be here in a week or two. The only 3 things left in my front suspension would be UCA, knuckle/spindle, and wheel bearings. I can't feel any play in the wheel bearings and the alignment are all in spec so I don't see how the knuckle could be bent.

 

[Buckaroo]

If you haven't tried it already, swap the front tires......

Buckaroo

 

[wc11]

I've had my stabilizer bars replaced in the past but the pulling for me was when I took my foot of the accelerator. The truck would wiggle just a bit and pull to the right.

 

[rd337]

So i replaced everything in the front end. Pull was still there. This isn't a small pull which could've been caused by a broken sway bar end link. This is a "Should I just rear end that person or risk rolling my truck into the ditch" kinda pull. It's violent and requires 180 degree turn off the steering wheel to try and keep the truck straight. Yea it's bad

So since I've replaced everything already, I decided to go back and replace what I did first. The lower control arm bushings. And this time I got the OEM TOYOTA bushings.

OMFG..... That was it.
So last time I did them, I got lazy and ordered the entire lca from the local reputable parts store and they showed one listing and it was a half decent brand so I went for it. The toyota bushings has thick metal collar in the centre, and solid rubber all the way through.
The aftermarket bushings (called the store back, they are made by Dorman) has 2 slots on either sides of the rubber, softer rubber which don't go to the edge of the sleeves, and the center collar is thinner allowing for more rubber.

WTFFFF The slots were aligned so there was no rubber to stop the LCA from having horrible toe angle changes! No SH*T it pulls under braking.

FYI the old control arm bushings were soooo shot that these bushings were still better, which is why I thought it must be something else. Now I realize that the PO must have driven like a grandma and hardly touch the brakes.



NEVER BUY DORMAN SUSPENSION BUSHINGS!

 

[Unner]

Someone here just posted with this exact same problem less than a week ago. Good info for anyone needing to replace those bushings.