Questions about the J shifter on a 98 SR5 manual

[Rushthezeppelin]

I have engaged 4hi at near highway speed and easily run 60mph on snowpack in a Colorado blizzard with good winter tires, no problem. In 4wd, mine feels very planted.

Mine definitely gets a little finicky about that when it's not warmed up (it even says this can happen on the visor card). I found out the scary way just where the limit of 2wd with my winter tires is yesterday though. Was coming up WB I70 towards the tunnel in the middle of traffic with a not well plowed road and all of sudden decided to have fun and do some fishtails. Thank the Lord that I managed not to hit anyone while I got it under control. I promptly headed over to the slow lane, engaged 4hi and tried to pretend like nothing happened. Handled like there wasn't any snow though as soon as I went into 4hi. Now I know that if there is enough snow on the road to prevent binding in 4hi there is enough snow on the road to just go ahead and switch to 4hi....

 

[brillo_76]

When it's slippery with snow and ice. Lots of times you can start out in 2nd instead of 1st in a manual to get it going. Makes it easier to get moving without pulling the 4wd lever.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[alexperrucci]

Good thread here if you haven't seen this already.

T-case Differences (all years of 3rd gens).. transfer case, AWD, multi-mode

 

[sportscarfan]

Mine definitely gets a little finicky about that when it's not warmed up (it even says this can happen on the visor card). I found out the scary way just where the limit of 2wd with my winter tires is yesterday though. Was coming up WB I70 towards the tunnel in the middle of traffic with a not well plowed road and all of sudden decided to have fun and do some fishtails. Thank the Lord that I managed not to hit anyone while I got it under control. I promptly headed over to the slow lane, engaged 4hi and tried to pretend like nothing happened. Handled like there wasn't any snow though as soon as I went into 4hi. Now I know that if there is enough snow on the road to prevent binding in 4hi there is enough snow on the road to just go ahead and switch to 4hi....

Yes. In 2wd, the rear will easily come around in low traction situations.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Yes. In 2wd, the rear will easily come around in low traction situations.

It had handled some other snow covered roads earlier that day thanks to the tires but they were all pretty flat roads. I think the big factor was the pretty steep grade so there was more torque involved leading to breaking traction. I do wish there was an easy way to swap in a MM tcase but it seems that only works when you are keeping the transmission type the same as you have to also swap the ECU and they didn't make a MM for manuals.

 

[phattyduck]

I do wish there was an easy way to swap in a MM tcase but it seems that only works when you are keeping the transmission type the same as you have to also swap the ECU and they didn't make a MM for manuals.

4WD ECU is separate from the engine ecu... but there is still lots of wiring for a MM Tcase swap (like gauge cluster if you want it to be stock-looking and operating).

-Charlie

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

4WD ECU is separate from the engine ecu... but there is still lots of wiring for a MM Tcase swap (like gauge cluster if you want it to be stock-looking and operating).

-Charlie

Interesting, that was my thinking but I saw a lot of people talking about the idea then abandoning it. Do you know of any threads on here with a detailed writeup of it being done successfully? I'd still be on the fence as I love the reliability of the mechanical J shifter and I know those MM tcases can sometimes have issues with the actuators that can be a massive pain to fix. If I did do this I would find one in decent shape and do a full rebuild on the electronics and seals to make sure it lasts a good while.

The other thing I wonder about is I could make it play nice with my vacuum ADD up front. Would I have to swap the diff or at least the ADD module?

 

[phattyduck]

The other thing I wonder about is I could make it play nice with my vacuum ADD up front. Would I have to swap the diff or at least the ADD module?

Google "site:https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/ multimode swap" (without the quotes) for plenty 'o threads.

The '99-'00 Limiteds have the same vacuum ADD actuator as the J-shifts from the same year.

Once again - not easy, but not impossible.

-Charlie

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Google "site:https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/ multimode swap" (without the quotes) for plenty 'o threads.

The '99-'00 Limiteds have the same vacuum ADD actuator as the J-shifts from the same year.

Once again - not easy, but not impossible.

-Charlie

As far as I can tell no one has done that exact swap. I've seen a few 99-00 do a 5 speed swap and keep the MM and one example of someone who swapped a 01-02 tcase into an auto 97. Only one person earlier this year was talking about 99-00 tcase swap into a 98 5 speed and it looks like he very quickly gave up because he couldn't find anyone else who had done it and the wiring is nightmarishly complicated and it seems like getting the 4wd computer to talk to the older ECU about whats going on with the ADD is where things get super sticky as wiring colors changed. Also apparently the 4wd computer is supposed to communicate with the ECU in autos with regards to changing shift patterns which would not happen in the manual which could perhaps cause some issues with the 4wd computer getting ornary (this is a guess but who knows, once again totally uncharted territory).

 

[brillo_76]

I have 4 runners across the 3rd gen spectrum. There are 3 groups.
96 to 98 verify similar. 99 to 00 Transition from analog to digital.
01 and 02 throttle by wire. Different evap system. Integrated abs and brake master cylinder.

Most of these changes in groups were electrical this is why certain things will not be easy to switched or upgraded.

The reason the multimode was only 2 years was the everything going to Trac and vsc those systems having been enabled and those 01 and 02 all have multimode t cases.

The only difference is the 99 -00 does not have trac/VSC.






Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

So after enough times of this happening I'm pretty sure my ADD is not engaging when it's cold (light doesn't come on but 4hi is obviously engaged on the tcase since it's mechanical). Is this fairly common? Pretty sure there is new fluid on both the front diff and tcase. Could it be a vacuum issue, or sludge buildup on the add module or maybe something with the 4wd computer being finicky in the cold? It did it to me today rolling a few miles to the store and back. The light did come on again as I was idling in my driveway taking on the phone when I got back. Tried the fancy Google search but seems like most have issues when it's hot not cold. I think every time it's happened it has been teens or colder (we were negatives all day today). Also the thing that baffles me is one time the light was on and I parked it and came back later in the day and the light was not on when I parked it in 4hi. Does the ADD automatically go back when you shut off the engine and vacuum is gone?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

 

[brillo_76]

So after enough times of this happening I'm pretty sure my ADD is not engaging when it's cold (light doesn't come on but 4hi is obviously engaged on the tcase since it's mechanical). Is this fairly common? Pretty sure there is new fluid on both the front diff and tcase. Could it be a vacuum issue, or sludge buildup on the add module or maybe something with the 4wd computer being finicky in the cold? It did it to me today rolling a few miles to the store and back. The light did come on again as I was idling in my driveway taking on the phone when I got back. Tried the fancy Google search but seems like most have issues when it's hot not cold. I think every time it's happened it has been teens or colder (we were negatives all day today). Also the thing that baffles me is one time the light was on and I parked it and came back later in the day and the light was not on when I parked it in 4hi. Does the ADD automatically go back when you shut off the engine and vacuum is gone?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

Half the time on my 1 1998 4 runner when I pull the lever my light never comes on... It's very common for the switch to go bad or not illuminate your dash. However, it's in 4wd and my ADD is functioning properly.

Are your sure this is not your case? That maybe it's in 4wd and your light switch just isn't illuminating?

Mine stays in 4wd if it's engaged. So turning it off etc doesn't change anything. As I start it up it's still in 4wd.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Half the time on my 1 1998 4 runner when I pull the lever my light never comes on... It's very common for the switch to go bad or not illuminate your dash. However, it's in 4wd and my ADD is functioning properly.

Are your sure this is not your case? That maybe it's in 4wd and your light switch just isn't illuminating?

Mine stays in 4wd if it's engaged. So turning it off etc doesn't change anything. As I start it up it's still in 4wd.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

Any easy way to tell if the ADD is engaged short of putting it on stands and trying to spin the passenger wheel? Seems like the electronic add guys have it easy since they can engage it with the engine off and listen.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

 

[Bad Luck]

So after enough times of this happening I'm pretty sure my ADD is not engaging when it's cold (light doesn't come on but 4hi is obviously engaged on the tcase since it's mechanical). Is this fairly common? Pretty sure there is new fluid on both the front diff and tcase. Could it be a vacuum issue, or sludge buildup on the add module or maybe something with the 4wd computer being finicky in the cold? It did it to me today rolling a few miles to the store and back. The light did come on again as I was idling in my driveway taking on the phone when I got back. Tried the fancy Google search but seems like most have issues when it's hot not cold. I think every time it's happened it has been teens or colder (we were negatives all day today). Also the thing that baffles me is one time the light was on and I parked it and came back later in the day and the light was not on when I parked it in 4hi. Does the ADD automatically go back when you shut off the engine and vacuum is gone?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

Could be a vacuum issue, but normally if it's a vacuum issue it will never come on again. Could be the front ADD position switch. If the switch never senses that the front ADD engaged then the light will never come on.

Also, keep in mind that the ADD is a manual connection that requires the inner axle and stub shaft in the differential to line up/time properly to engage the two. There isn't a synchronizer to help with this so sometimes you need to turn some to allow the two splines to line up in order to connect and engage.

No easy way to check at the axle besides lifting the front end and spinning the tires. You can remove the vacuum lines at the VSV (remember which one goes where) and see if the vacuum changes from one to the other when shifting between 2HI and 4HI.

 

[brillo_76]

I was going to say. Probably put it on jack stands to see what is going on. As sadly, I don't know of a simple way except to get all 4 wheels off the ground. To see what is what.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[desertegal7]

regardless the manual im shifting between H2 and H4 as slow as i can do, truck is old im not risking shifting at 50mph.
for L4 complete stop when shifting in and out of it.

 

[brillo_76]

Any easy way to tell if the ADD is engaged short of putting it on stands and trying to spin the passenger wheel? Seems like the electronic add guys have it easy since they can engage it with the engine off and listen.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

I really dont know about that. I rather have a mechical engagement then an electric motor as everything is fine and dandy till that electric motor fails and you have to buy the replacement.

There as been lots of debate as to which system is better. I think the manual lever are a lot more stable then electric actuators as the more components in the system, the higher the chance of a failure can occur.

Just like manual hubs are more fail safe then the ADD system are simply because less components are involved. The con on those is they can freeze locked in winter...;-)

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

I really dont know about that. I rather have a mechical engagement then an electric motor as everything is fine and dandy till that electric motor fails and you have to buy the replacement.

There as been lots of debate as to which system is better. I think the manual lever are a lot more stable then electric actuators as the more components in the system, the higher the chance of a failure can occur.

Just like manual hubs are more fail safe then the ADD system are simply because less components are involved. The con on those is they can freeze locked in winter...;-)

Yeah not saying that electronic is better but it certainly is easier to diagnose when you don't have to have the engine on for vacuum. I do wish they had made a version of the mechanical system with a unlockable tcase, that would be the perfect 4wd system IMO since it's perfect for variable road conditions. Granted even if mechanical it's still more complex. 1st world problems.....

 

[brillo_76]

Yeah not saying that electronic is better but it certainly is easier to diagnose when you don't have to have the engine on for vacuum. I do wish they had made a version of the mechanical system with a unlockable tcase, that would be the perfect 4wd system IMO since it's perfect for variable road conditions. Granted even if mechanical it's still more complex. 1st world problems.....

Valid points. Lot of people would like to see unlocked transfers. I am surprized the 3rd party hasn't made one out of the J shifter with some modifications.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Sure enough it's just the light or switch that's finicky in the cold. ADD was fine at least when I checked it this morning despite light not coming on, granted it was a bit warmer today than it has been (always sucks trying to diagnose stuff that only happens in the cold lol). I'll probably take the switch out and clean it up so if that fixes the problem. Not a big deal but it's nice to have the green light come on for peace of mind that I'm in 4wd and not just 3wd.