Rear Axle Seal/Bearing Replacement Videos

[weekendclimber]

Well, how do I say this. First off, there's a lot of truth with the saying, "You get what you pay for." I'm not so concerned with the bearings, retainers and ABS tone rings. What concerns me is the seal. Toyota redesigned the seal to improve upon it. If you've ever held one of the new OEM seals in your hand, you would see how pliable it is. This improved pliability allows for axle movement without damaging the seal. As the bearings age and develop more play, that pliability is going to be a factor big time. Will the seals in the Lo Range kit last as long as the Toyota seals? Something tells me that they won't . So, you might have saved yourself some money but lessened the time this repair will last for you. I personally would not use an aftermarket seal for this application. Hopefully for you I'm wrong, but I strongly believe Toyota OEM seals are the way to go for this repair even though it requires you to flip the retainer to get a good mating with with the seal.

This looks a bit like the kit I got from Marlin Crawler. They made a big deal of all the OEM parts they used, but were a bit vague on the seal. Sure enough, once I got the kit, everything was OEM except the seal, which was aftermarket and more importantly, the old design, instead of the improved one. So I sent everything back and bought all OEM parts, which I think are significantly better (particularly the seal).

Total agree with all of this. I'm more than willing to be the guinea pig on these seals and see what the longevity and placement of these aftermarket seals result in. Contrary, I'm strongly considering getting OEM seals and replacing these aftermarket seals once I need to change the gear oil after the 500 mile break in period on the new 3rd I installed. I'll obviously need to move the ABS tone-ring and the retainer back up the axle, but not too big of a job IMHO.

Just hoping this all helps someone who is considering getting this kit for Low Range Offroad and suggest they get the ABS version that includes the new seal.

 

[SaulG]

As long as you have the seal alighned on the retainer you'll be fine. 99% of the failures I've seen are because of misguided info,seal placement etc. It aint rocket science.

Trail,Marlin,SOR etc etc all have a seal that works just like any auto parts store NAME brand seal..Toyota doesn't build seals they spec them then bid it out.

They redesigned the seal due to compatibility issues with "new synthetic oil" late 90's

Never have taken one apart to find a "flipped retainer" from the factory and I trust Toyota engineers more than the backyard wanna bees.

Everytime I see a "new idea" I look at my 302k OEM no leaking rear diff and laugh

 

[3bears]

You're welcome Joshua. Good luck with the job and the move.

so I have the 12 ton harbor freight floor press, which has worked well for me in the past on many projects.
Question 1 : Do I really need 20 tons ?

Question 2: The 12 ton is a bit smaller and the "throat" on the adjustable "arm" is only 3 inches wide, will this recommended puller fit through the 3 inch opening

 

[I_bRAD]

Lo and behold, they are located in Fremont, California which is literally only around 20 minutes from my house. If they would have just had their address available on their website originally, I would have realized they were so close and I could have driven over there and discussed the manufacturing problems with their tool. Oh well, too late now.

Mine shipped from India. I would assume the california office is where the guy who orders stuff from India works.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

so I have the 12 ton harbor freight floor press, which has worked well for me in the past on many projects.
Question 1 : Do I really need 20 tons ?

Question 2: The 12 ton is a bit smaller and the "throat" on the adjustable "arm" is only 3 inches wide, will this recommended puller fit through the 3 inch opening

I used the 12 ton version, and it was a PITA. The issue was not the pressing force, that was fine. But the smaller throat and the overall height caused problems with the special tool, so I had to improvise in order to get it done (I forget the details now, sorry). I did get it done, but it was a lot more work and frustration than it would have been with the 20 ton. But since you already have the 12 ton, you can get it done with it, I wouldn't go out and buy another pres just for this.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Trail,Marlin,SOR etc etc all have a seal that works just like any auto parts store NAME brand seal..Toyota doesn't build seals they spec them then bid it out.

They redesigned the seal due to compatibility issues with "new synthetic oil" late 90's

That's not quite correct. Toyota redesigned the seal to improve it by adding compliance. Many of the aftermarket suppliers, even the name brand ones, supply the old seal design. It may be fine (it was fine to begin with, right?), but there's a reason Toyota redesigned the seal, and it makes no sense to not use the improved design.

Axle seal TSB

 

[JZiggy]

Never have taken one apart to find a "flipped retainer" from the factory and I trust Toyota engineers more than the backyard wanna bees.

Everytime I see a "new idea" I look at my 302k OEM no leaking rear diff and laugh

Having seen this method work successfully multiple times, including on my own vehicle, I would like to encourage you to take a harder look at this.

Flippant statements like this don't help our vibrant DIY community. The "backyard wanna bees" I know are well-informed, careful, and competent. There is also a difference between Toyota engineers and Toyota mechanics.

 

[JZiggy]

That's not quite correct. Toyota redesigned the seal to improve it by adding compliance. Many of the aftermarket suppliers, even the name brand ones, supply the old seal design. It may be fine (it was fine to begin with, right?), but there's a reason Toyota redesigned the seal, and it makes no sense to not use the improved design.

Axle seal TSB

You guys are probably both right. Many seals have been redesigned to compensate for synthetic oils. That may very well have been one of the drivers for Toyota to respec this seal.

And indeed, seals are made by seal companies like NOK, Timken, etc. and not by auto manufacturers. But that's a good reason to use OEM seals anyway because they will demand the best materials.

 

[weekendclimber]

From the markings on the seal in a picture I have, I believe this is the one that is being used: NAK Type C, TC

You can see the profile has two lips, one inboard and one outboard.

Didn't mean to start up a debate on this. Personally, I trust the experience and results that [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] has proven to be reliable. Pictures are worth a thousand words and Tim's video are invaluable.

 

[3bears]

I used the 12 ton version, and it was a PITA. The issue was not the pressing force, that was fine. But the smaller throat and the overall height caused problems with the special tool, so I had to improvise in order to get it done (I forget the details now, sorry). I did get it done, but it was a lot more work and frustration than it would have been with the 20 ton. But since you already have the 12 ton, you can get it done with it, I wouldn't go out and buy another pres just for this.

thank you for your input on this. My 12 ton has been a push for me in some projects, and I like that more of the 20 ton is wielded together rather then a lot of bolt together. The 12 ton has smaller "feet" and have had it try to lean on a big job we did.. I might just opt for the 20 ton and then sell my 12 ton. My son might help me out, because I am moving far ( Alaska) and was going to leave the press for him. He does lots of big diesel stuff as well as motorcycle stuff so he might want the bigger press anyway

Figured with the axel tool, I can resell it. the price of the new press and the tool is only 150 more than the local shop wanted just to do the press work. we only have one in our town and he charges up the wazoo and never meets deadlines , at least for small guys and walk ins.

thanks again for your thoughts on how the 12 ton worked for you

thanks agan

 

[4Runner4Leon]

thank you for your input on this. My 12 ton has been a push for me in some projects, and I like that more of the 20 ton is wielded together rather then a lot of bolt together. The 12 ton has smaller "feet" and have had it try to lean on a big job we did.. I might just opt for the 20 ton and then sell my 12 ton. My son might help me out, because I am moving far ( Alaska) and was going to leave the press for him. He does lots of big diesel stuff as well as motorcycle stuff so he might want the bigger press anyway

Figured with the axel tool, I can resell it. the price of the new press and the tool is only 150 more than the local shop wanted just to do the press work. we only have one in our town and he charges up the wazoo and never meets deadlines , at least for small guys and walk ins.

thanks again for your thoughts on how the 12 ton worked for you

thanks agan

I just remembered what I hated about the 12 ton press - the part they call the Press Apron (on which the two black plates are laying in the picture below) was not wide enough to allow the special axle tool to slip through! The cylinder part of the tool was narrow enough, but the flanges were too wide to fit through the opening of the Press Apron.

So I had to sawzall the Press Apron into two pieces, then every time I wanted to reposition it up or down, I had to take the two pieces off individually, then put them back on the two pins. My hands were full with heavy axles and tools as it was, so this made for a royal PITA, I know I dropped things more than a few times.

If you have that option, I'd definitely step to the 20 ton press for this job.

 

[mtbtim]

As long as you have the seal alighned on the retainer you'll be fine. 99% of the failures I've seen are because of misguided info,seal placement etc. It aint rocket science.

Trail,Marlin,SOR etc etc all have a seal that works just like any auto parts store NAME brand seal..Toyota doesn't build seals they spec them then bid it out.

They redesigned the seal due to compatibility issues with "new synthetic oil" late 90's

Never have taken one apart to find a "flipped retainer" from the factory and I trust Toyota engineers more than the backyard wanna bees.

Everytime I see a "new idea" I look at my 302k OEM no leaking rear diff and laugh

Well Buddy Ol' Pal, I agree that the key is to get the seal riding correctly on the retainer. If you can do that, you are doing pretty good.

Sounds like you're saying lots of seals will work just as good as the Toyota OEM seals and this is where I disagree. The seal was redesigned in such a way to be much more pliable than the original seal design. Aftermarket seals DO NOT have the same pliability built in.

The reason for the flipped retainer is to get a better mating of the axle seal with the inner retainer without risking having the retainer rub the inside of the axle housing. Due to the re-designed seal, the seal lip now sits 2mm for inboard and thus you have to either readjust the inner retainer 2mm more inboard (risking the retainer rubbing inside the axle housing), or you can flip it like we show in the video and leave the retainer in the same OEM spot on the axle (5mm or polished axle showing above the retainer). Because the bevel is 2mm wide, when you flip the retainer putting the bevel facing the ABS tone ring, you compensate for the seal re-design because now the seal doesn't have to first push past the bevel to get up onto the polished shoulder of the retainer.

302k on original seals. Ok Bro. I bet you've never pulled your ABS sensors and taken a peak into your axle housing. Pretty much every one of these rigs that has 200k+ miles on it will have some leaking. I've seen it on way too many rigs. The gear oil hasn't found it's way into the brakes yet or is leaking out making a mess on the inside of your wheels but I guarantee your seals are leaking at that mileage. Pull your tires off, pull out the ABS sensors, and then rotate the axles while looking at the ABS tone ring. If there's gear oil in that cavity, the ABS tone ring works like a water wheel picking up the gear oil that has accumulated in there. I'd bet Big Big money you have quite a bit of gear oil in there that's slowly washing away the grease inside your bearings.

In closing, I take offense to your backyard wannabe bullshit statement. Us DIYer mechanics quite often know a hell of a lot more than the paid guys at the dealerships. The reason being is we are wrenching on these rigs day in and day out and we share information with each other on forums like this one. I guarantee you that myself and anyone else that has watched my videos and have read through the T4R threads for this rear axle seal job know more than most paid technicians at Toyota dealerships around the country. Dealerships, private shops, and machine shops botch this job on a regular basis. There's a ton of knowledgeable guys on this forum that contribute everyday. If you think we're all full of shit, why the hell are you on here then?

From here on out, it doesn't matter what you do. You could walk on water, cure cancer, create world peace, and I'd still think you're an as*hole.

 

[thegipper]

From here on out, it doesn't matter what you do. You could walk on water, cure cancer, create world peace, and I'd still think you're an as*hole.

:lmao::lmao:

 

[JZiggy]

:smashputer:

 

[3bears]

I just remembered what I hated about the 12 ton press - the part they call the Press Apron (on which the two black plates are laying in the picture below) was not wide enough to allow the special axle tool to slip through! The cylinder part of the tool was narrow enough, but the flanges were too wide to fit through the opening of the Press Apron.

So I had to sawzall the Press Apron into two pieces, then every time I wanted to reposition it up or down, I had to take the two pieces off individually, then put them back on the two pins. My hands were full with heavy axles and tools as it was, so this made for a royal PITA, I know I dropped things more than a few times.

If you have that option, I'd definitely step to the 20 ton press for this job.

thanks again, that was helpful, I am going to go for the 20 ton. On sale right now for 189, if I only had a coupon that would bring it down even more

 

[weekendclimber]

thanks again, that was helpful, I am going to go for the 20 ton. On sale right now for 189, if I only had a coupon that would bring it down even more

Here's everything you ever wanted in HF coupons: Harbor Freight Tools Coupon Database - Free coupons, 25 percent off coupons, 20 percent off coupons, No Purchase Required coupons, toolbox coupons

And for your application: $139.99 20 ton press

Make sure you get a free item, or you're missing out.

 

[3bears]

thanks all,

got duanes tool Friday , new harbor freight coupon came in mail ( also one listed above). so am gonna get the 20 ton for 139 and sell the smaller one, waiting for price quote from aryana for parts, but might not have time to wait, on a tight time line now

anyone know what size the seal is, I have a harbor freight seal driving kit ranges from 44-81mm

 

[weekendclimber]

thanks all,

got duanes tool Friday , new harbor freight coupon came in mail ( also one listed above). so am gonna get the 20 ton for 139 and sell the smaller one, waiting for price quote from aryana for parts, but might not have time to wait, on a tight time line now

anyone know what size the seal is, I have a harbor freight seal driving kit ranges from 44-81mm

[MENTION=124615]3bears[/MENTION] Is that the aluminum/metal seal driver kit you have? If so, I don't remember which one it was, but one of the middle ones worked perfectly for me.

 

[WWRD99]

In closing, I take offense to your backyard wannabe bullshit statement. Us DIYer mechanics quite often know a hell of a lot more than the paid guys at the dealerships. The reason being is we are wrenching on these rigs day in and day out and we share information with each other on forums like this one. I guarantee you that myself and anyone else that has watched my videos and have read through the T4R threads for this rear axle seal job know more than most paid technicians at Toyota dealerships around the country. Dealerships, private shops, and machine shops botch this job on a regular basis. There's a ton of knowledgeable guys on this forum that contribute everyday. If you think we're all full of shit, why the hell are you on here then?

From here on out, it doesn't matter what you do. You could walk on water, cure cancer, create world peace, and I'd still think you're an as*hole.

I think that's the quote of the year there!!! I've got a ton of info from this guy and I am a master tech,,,I don't think anything I've seen Tim do would lead anyone down the wrong path to a correct repair...for me, if I haven't done something it's never fun being the first guy doing it...seeing a quick video of a guy that takes the time to do the whole youtube thing makes it that much easier...keep kickin it strong Tim.

 

[3bears]

[MENTION=124615]3bears[/MENTION] Is that the aluminum/metal seal driver kit you have? If so, I don't remember which one it was, but one of the middle ones worked perfectly for me.

yep it is