Rear axle seal/bearing replacement

[RS Dude]

So, I'm curious. When you took your axles to the machine shop to take the old parts off and press the new parts on, did you specify to them where you wanted the retainers to sit on the axles or did you just trust they knew what they were doing? Did you do the grease test on each side to see where the lips of the seals were riding on retainers before bolting the axles back on the housing?

I'm asking this since you're pretty much saying [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] research is BS and Toyota is the best thing since sliced bread and would never do something to hurt it's customers. Toyota redesigning things in the middle of the night? Are you serious or just posting things to annoy people? Auto manufacturers redesign parts all the time when they find an issue with them. The axle seal was redesigned by Toyota some years back. This has been confirmed by many on this forum who have done the axle seal repair and I personally talked to the parts guys at my local Toyota dealership and they also said the seal was redesigned. The problem mainly lies with the mechanics doing the job and blindly following the FSM spec without doing a grease test to confirm the retainer position is good. If a machine shop put everything back onto the axle matching what the OEM set-up was, you're going to have problems due to the redesigned seal sitting more inboard towards the differential.

So, instead of posting your opinions and blindly thinking Toyota never makes mistakes, why don't you pull your axles again, do the grease test, take pictures and prove what we're telling you is BS and your way is right.

My original seals and retainer rings were the old style. Both seals were riding exactly in the middle with about 4mm away from bevel. If I simply replaced the old seal with the new one with the lip 2mm closer to bevel, it still would be far enough away from bevel to avoid any leaks.

The machine shop I used has a staff of mechanics with combined yearly work experienced of over 100 years! I talked to 3 of them who have personally done this exact axle job hundreds of times. They are so familiar with the job that they said they could do it in their sleep. I asked them and showed them DrCoffee's PhD dissertation and they said they had no idea what I was talking about. I did give them a print out of the FSM instructions with the parts, but they didn't need them. I simply let them do their job without asking them to flip the ratainer ring.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I can personally vouch for drCoffee's method. Just made sense to me while I was doing all the work. I did the entire job 2X on both my 4Runners including pressing the retainers, bearing and exciter ring off (which is really tricky without that SST).
I did it DrCoffee's method and the reason why is that there's a little more margin for error since the bevel is forward of the where the seal rides on the retainer. You can do it the "toyota" way but you have a few less mm's to play with and we are talking mm's here. I know I had to do a couple position corrections to get it right. I learned from the first axle to not put it on too far because the crowbar method mentioned here to move the retainer out really wont work. I had to remove the c-clip and press everything out a little and start over. The absolute most important thing that needs to be done is the grease test. So simple and conclusive on whether the job is done right or not.
One other thing, I wouldn't do just one side without doing the other but that's just me and my experience in wrench operation for 40 years.
No leaks on either truck for over a year and a half on my 1st 4Runner before it was totaled. My new truck I just looked at through the ABS sensor after 2000 miles and dry as a bone.

 

[RS Dude]

I can personally vouch for drCoffee's method. Just made sense to me while I was doing all the work. I did the entire job 2X on both my 4Runners including pressing the retainers, bearing and exciter ring off (which is really tricky without that SST).
I did it DrCoffee's method and the reason why is that there's a little more margin for error since the bevel is forward of the where the seal rides on the retainer. You can do it the "toyota" way but you have a few less mm's to play with and we are talking mm's here. I know I had to do a couple position corrections to get it right. I learned from the first axle to not put it on too far because the crowbar method mentioned here to move the retainer out really wont work. I had to remove the c-clip and press everything out a little and start over. The absolute most important thing that needs to be done is the grease test. So simple and conclusive on whether the job is done right or not.
One other thing, I wouldn't do just one side without doing the other but that's just me and my experience in wrench operation for 40 years.
No leaks on either truck for over a year and a half on my 1st 4Runner before it was totaled. My new truck I just looked at through the ABS sensor after 2000 miles and dry as a bone.

If you did the grease test, how far from bevel did the seal lip ride?

 

[4racer]

I had a machine shop replace my axle bearings. That was 30K ago with new seals. All is still well. Believe they used the standard Toyota dimensions.

However the reason my axle was leaking prior is because their bearing was seated too far forward and leaked.

 

[RS Dude]

I had a machine shop replace my axle bearings. That was 30K ago with new seals. All is still well. Believe they used the standard Toyota dimensions.

However the reason my axle was leaking prior is because their bearing was seated too far forward and leaked.

I think I see a trend here. The few people who had to redo the axle job all seem to have the following things in common:
1. They didn't use a machine shop
2. They used non oem parts
3. They reused old parts or used junkyard parts.:guitar2:

 

[4racer]

I think I see a trend here. The few people who had to redo the axle job all seem to have the following things in common:
1. They didn't use a machine shop
2. They used non oem parts
3. They reused old parts or used junkyard parts.:guitar2:

Agreed. It had a leak axle when it was purchased. First i put in a new seal, still leaked. Second time I replaced everything and it was the machine shop that even asked if it was sealing. They said just by looking at it they could tell it was going to leak.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

If you did the grease test, how far from bevel did the seal lip ride?

If I remember correctly, the "edge" of the bevel was inboard 3mm from where the grease test line was. On the other side was about 4mm. Any way you do it, you maybe have 2mm leeway before you get too close to the bevel edge or the other side.

 

[Drcoffee]

I talked to 3 of them who have personally done this exact axle job hundreds of times. . They are so familiar with the job that they said they could do it in their sleep. I asked them and showed them DrCoffee's PhD dissertation and they said they had no idea what I was talking about. I did give them a print out of the FSM instructions with the parts, but they didn't need them. I simply let them do their job without asking them to flip the ratainer ring.

Wow! Personally did this job 100s of times. Gee, I wonder if theres a chronic problem on a part that should hardly ever fail.. Far beit for a dealership mechanic to LIE about their success rate. So lets take this one step further. Who profits from this? Me $0. Dealership $1,200. Yup, Im the one who stands to benefit from giving you bad info.

Let me tell you a story from when I owned an Acura MDX. I took it in for an oil leak and it was obviously motor oil. The leak was between the engine and transmission. The mechanic said, nope its a leaking tranny and we will replace it under warranty. I said go for it. Its on your dime since it was a certified used car. They replaced the tranny and two days later, it was still leaking. So I brought it back and said, guess what? Its still leaking. They put it on the lift and we both looked at it. I wiped it with a paper towl in front of the service writer and the mechanic was silent and service manager was visably pissed. The Genius God-like mechanic could have save the dealership time and money had the mechanic simply replaced the rear main seal at the same time as the tranny, and nobody would have been the wiser. But this was on their dime. Im just happy it was still in the warranty period or. i would have had to foot the bill twice. The only thing you get from the dealership mechanics is crap coffee and poorer.

You know, Ive owned over 25 personal vehicles and until I bought my 4runner, had NEVER had to replace an axle seal due to it failing. Hmmm. Kind of makes you wonder.

BTW dealership mechanics cant change their procedures that go contrary to the FSM. Everything must be standardized across the company or they would have legal problems. That means even if the FSM is WRONG.

 

[Drcoffee]

You can see if you truck has had a history of axle seals leaking by entering your vin into the toyotaowners.com website. Every service done at the dealer from day one will be recorded.

Id bet dollars to doughnuts that more 4runners and tacomas had several leaking seals during their lifetimes than most other vehicles.

 

[Drcoffee]

Okay I think I finally figured out why OP has an axe to grind with me. It has nothing to do with axle seals. Its because he is in Orange Co. CA and I have TRUMP in my signature. This has all the hallmarks of a rabid Hilary C. Supporter. Be honest OP. You saw Red when you saw Trump down below. You sick bastard.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Okay I think I finally figured out why OP has an axe to grind with me. It has nothing to do with axle seals. Its because he is in Orange Co. CA and I have TRUMP in my signature. This has all the hallmarks of a rabid Hilary C. Supporter. Be honest OP. You saw Red when you saw Trump down below. You sick bastard.

Really? Orange County is like Trump heaven. I thought you would be above this sort of mudslinging. I think your logic and repair is sound. I don't care about your politics. Let's leave that sort of crap where it belongs. NOT on this forum, please.

:cheer2:

 

[RS Dude]

Okay I think I finally figured out why OP has an axe to grind with me. It has nothing to do with axle seals. Its because he is in Orange Co. CA and I have TRUMP in my signature. This has all the hallmarks of a rabid Hilary C. Supporter. Be honest OP. You saw Red when you saw Trump down below. You sick bastard.

Wrong again. Always have been constitutional conservative.:wink2:

 

[RS Dude]

Wow! Personally did this job 100s of times. Gee, I wonder if theres a chronic problem on a part that should hardly ever fail.. Far beit for a dealership mechanic to LIE about their success rate. So lets take this one step further. Who profits from this? Me $0. Dealership $1,200. Yup, Im the one who stands to benefit from giving you bad info.

Let me tell you a story from when I owned an Acura MDX. I took it in for an oil leak and it was obviously motor oil. The leak was between the engine and transmission. The mechanic said, nope its a leaking tranny and we will replace it under warranty. I said go for it. Its on your dime since it was a certified used car. They replaced the tranny and two days later, it was still leaking. So I brought it back and said, guess what? Its still leaking. They put it on the lift and we both looked at it. I wiped it with a paper towl in front of the service writer and the mechanic was silent and service manager was visably pissed. The Genius God-like mechanic could have save the dealership time and money had the mechanic simply replaced the rear main seal at the same time as the tranny, and nobody would have been the wiser. But this was on their dime. Im just happy it was still in the warranty period or. i would have had to foot the bill twice. The only thing you get from the dealership mechanics is crap coffee and poorer.

You know, Ive owned over 25 personal vehicles and until I bought my 4runner, had NEVER had to replace an axle seal due to it failing. Hmmm. Kind of makes you wonder.

BTW dealership mechanics cant change their procedures that go contrary to the FSM. Everything must be standardized across the company or they would have legal problems. That means even if the FSM is WRONG.

There is no secret society of Toyota dealers and mechanics trying to hide the notorious leaking rear axle seal holocaust. Time for you to get over it.:hurt:

 

[xghcj]

Do the extended breather mod to reduce the chances of it happening again anytime soon.