Rear Axle Seal: Suggestions?

[nissanh]

I pulled pass. side axle due to the minor gear oil leak (seal OEM did about 10K miles ago)

I bought all new OEM seals and bearings for both sides (driver side is dry) and the tool for the job but upon removing I see the followings: The sleeve is 4.87 mm from the lip of the shinny surface. Tim said 5 mm so this should be good.

The bearing NACHI JAPAN is still good and zero up and down movement.

Should I just
(1) Regrease the bearing and

A) install a new OEM seal lightly out bound

B) pull the ABS ring and sleeve about 2 mm towards the 3rd member?

C) flip the sleeve around to have the bevel facing the ABS ring?

(2) Do a complete job with all new parts?

Thanks

 

[APhelps]

The numbers you have aren't relevant to anything. You need to do an actual grease / sharpie test to find out where the seal is riding.

 

[nissanh]

I did the sharpie testing today and you can see it on both pictures.

 

[mtbtim]

I did the sharpie testing today and you can see it on both pictures.

The 5mm distance from the polished edge to the retainer I suggest in our video is when you flip the retainer (Dr Coffee Method). Right now, you have the retainer in it's original orientation and it's original gap from the polished edge. This is the reason why your seal is leaking. Since your seal is barely riding on the polished shoulder, a little bit of bearing play will have the seal riding on the bevel and not the polished shoulder.

I would get a new seal and install it carefully and then pull off the ABS tone ring and inner retainer and put them back on with the inner retainer flipped at with approximately 4-5mm of polished axle showing. Press it on first with 4mm showing and do the sharpie test. If the seal isn't riding dead center, make the necessary adjustment, most likely pressing it on 1 more millimeter.

 

[Bad Luck]

I did the sharpie testing today and you can see it on both pictures.

I would re-grease the bearing since you already have it apart, flip the retainer, install new axle seals and sharpie/grease test to verify the axle seal is riding close to center on the retainer. When you do the sharpie test try not to let the sharpie dry completely before spinning for easier to read results.

 

[APhelps]

I did the sharpie testing today and you can see it on both pictures.

As others said it isn't riding in the correct orientation. It needs to ride in the middle of the polished area.

 

[nissanh]

Done with regreasing. Now, to flip the ring.

Thanks guys!

 

[nissanh]

Update:

Tim, thanks for the video you posted on February of 2019. I find it needs a small correction:

I found someone commented here or on youtube that his ABS ring and the tool got bent during the removal of ABS ring and sleeve. Well... it happened to me too. The way out was to grind off the sleeve before pulling the ABS ring. My ABS ring bent a little and I managed to straighten it. How perfect does it has to be?

 

[Kanoe]

Update:

Tim, thanks for the video you posted on February of 2019. I find it needs a small correction:

I found someone commented here or on youtube that his ABS ring and the tool got bent during the removal of ABS ring and sleeve. Well... it happened to me too. The way out was to grind off the sleeve before pulling the ABS ring. My ABS ring bent a little and I managed to straighten it. How perfect does it has to be?

A little wobble doesn't seem to hurt. One of mine got a slight 1/16" bow when pulling it off. I reused it and it has been 20 or more thousand on it now with no issues.

 

[mtbtim]

Update:

Tim, thanks for the video you posted on February of 2019. I find it needs a small correction:

I found someone commented here or on youtube that his ABS ring and the tool got bent during the removal of ABS ring and sleeve. Well... it happened to me too. The way out was to grind off the sleeve before pulling the ABS ring. My ABS ring bent a little and I managed to straighten it. How perfect does it has to be?

Your experience is sort of an anomaly. I've done several axle seal jobs with Duane's tool, probably 4 sets of axles and I've had no issues. On all the axle seal jobs I've done, probably at least 13, so 26 axles, I've never had my 20 ton press load up when removing the ABS tone ring and inner retainer. They always come off without much of a fight. I think there's a chance you and other guy might have gotten the ABS tone ring tool on unequally to the main tool where it's not pulling equally on all sides, thus putting the tone ring and retainer in a bind. That's the only thing I can come up with.

Pressing out the axle from the bearing is where the press loads up a bit and then bang, it breaks free and gets smooth from there on.

So, sorry you had this experience but I'm probably not going to mention anything in the notes for the video because you're experience is in the severe minority.

 

[nissanh]

Thanks for the reply:

I snug all 4 nuts on the ABS ring puller tool and all had same amount of thread exposed. I, however, found the cross bar which holds the hydraulic jack was bit tilted to left. The ABS ring got bent on both sides that rested on the parallel part of the U-tool.

One more thing, the retainer was TIMKEN and not OEM, perhaps it was too tight?

 

[mtbtim]

Thanks for the reply:

I snug all 4 nuts on the ABS ring puller tool and all had same amount of thread exposed. I, however, found the cross bar which holds the hydraulic jack was bit tilted to left. The ABS ring got bent on both sides that rested on the parallel part of the U-tool.

One more thing, the retainer was TIMKEN and not OEM, perhaps it was too tight?

My Harbor Freight Press had the press rod welded onto that bottle jack cross bar a little crooked. I took it to a fab shop and had them put a fresh cut on it to try to level out the pressing surface. It improved it but it still wan't perfect.

That bottle jack cross bar does have some play to it so we always pay attention to how it comes into contact with the material we are pressing. If it looks like it's not hitting the material squarely, we reset and try again.

Maybe it was the Timken retainer. Like I said, I've never seen the press load up significantly when pulling off the inner retainer and ABS tone ring. They always come off with very little fight.

 

[nissanh]

Just got the bearing pressed out and it started out with a loud bang! far louder than your's on the video. The retainer is again a TIMKEN (made in Brazil), and it also had severe scare marks on the inside surface: Axle surface is smooth!

Thanks Tim and all for continued support...

 

[APhelps]

Just got the bearing pressed out and it started out with a loud bang! far louder than your's on the video. The retainer is again a TIMKEN (made in Brazil), and it also had severe scare marks on the inside surface: Axle surface is smooth!

Thanks Tim and all for continued support...

The inside of the Timken retainer having severe scar marks on the inside isn't going to do anything. Its a pressed fit that rotates with the axle.

Also the bearing popping out is going to be louder than the video.

 

[APhelps]

My Harbor Freight Press had the press rod welded onto that bottle jack cross bar a little crooked. I took it to a fab shop and had them put a fresh cut on it to try to level out the pressing surface. It improved it but it still wan't perfect.

That bottle jack cross bar does have some play to it so we always pay attention to how it comes into contact with the material we are pressing. If it looks like it's not hitting the material squarely, we reset and try again.

Maybe it was the Timken retainer. Like I said, I've never seen the press load up significantly when pulling off the inner retainer and ABS tone ring. They always come off with very little fight.

I've noticed this on about every HF press. Just important to make sure everything is squared up and pressing down evenly.

 

[nissanh]

Done

Done with the axle:

The OEM retainer went in without an effort: The TIMKEN retainer was TOO tight and it causes the tool and ABS ring the bend. After some work, got the ABS ring to straighten up.

Please take a look.... Did the grease and sharpie test.. What do you think?

The new space between the retainer and the polished end is 4 mm

The distance between the ABS ring (at the axle) and the polished end is 18.2 mm (Before and after)

 

[Bad Luck]

Done with the axle:

The OEM retainer went in without an efforts: The TIMKEN retainer was TOO tight and it cause the tool and ring the bend.

Please take a look.... Did the grease and sharpie test.. What do you think?

The new space between the retainer and the polished end is 4 mm

It's hard to tell because the grease is opposite of what mine looked like. Take a look at post #12 here A possible solution to leaking axle seals. You have grease where it should be clean. You are putting the grease on the retainer and not the seal right, and only on the retainer surface where the seal rides?

 

[mtbtim]

Done with the axle:

The OEM retainer went in without an efforts: The TIMKEN retainer was TOO tight and it cause the tool and ring the bend.

Please take a look.... Did the grease and sharpie test.. What do you think?

The new space between the retainer and the polished end is 4 mm

I can't really see where the seal wiped away the sharpie mark and the delineation of where the seal pushed the grease back on the retainer is sort of hard to tell too. Try just doing the sharpie test and fully snug the axle into the housing with the 4 nuts and then turn the axles several times so we can get a clear visual of where the seal is riding on the retainer. I know from experience that 4mm of polished axle showing should be fine with the retainer flipped but it would be nice to have better confirmation before you bolt it back up.

 

[nissanh]

All done!

As Tim suggested...

 

[mtbtim]

As Tim suggested...

I say that's looking pretty damn spot on. Good job!