Rear brakes not working

[Toystory2]

does the tech know what he is talking about? you can't bleed it without turning the the key on and pressing the brake.

I wasn’t present when they were checking it but I’m gonna assume they did turn the key on


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[Toystory2]

I need to loosen the connector labeled 1? I saw another nut on the caliper (2)
so wanted to make sure.


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[MENTION=149207]AuSeeker[/MENTION] I pre-loosened the nut on the passenger side caliper and immediately got fluid out. The ignition wasn’t even on.

Edit: now have loosened the nut on each caliper and fluid came out of each side


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[AuSeeker]

[MENTION=149207]AuSeeker[/MENTION] I pre-loosened the nut on the passenger side caliper and immediately got fluid out. The ignition wasn’t even on.

Edit: now have loosened the nut on each caliper and fluid came out of each side


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You really need to know if you're getting hydraulic pressure to the rear to know if there's a blockage or not, a little bit of fluid will come out when you loosen a fitting just from fluid in the brake hose/line.

Now that you have them loosened, I think you need to check for pressure, turn the ignition on have someone depress the brake pedal, loosen the fitting again and see if you get fluid coming out under pressure, it should come out forcefully and not just a trickle, if the fluid come out with some force/pressure, I would next go to the bleeder valve as mentioned by 4r-4ever, I would think the tech would know he needed to turn the ignition on for the rears but he may not have, for the fronts you don't have to turn on the ignition so he may not have done so for the rears, the bleeder valve is directly on the opposite side from the #2 fitting, it is small and has a hole in the nippled end, if the tech actually loosen the bleeder valves they shouldn't be very tight, be very careful when you tighten the bleeder valve back down, they are very small and you can easily break them off if you go crazy when tightening them, if you get fluid coming out under pressure then there's no blockage but you could still have seized calipers, to check if they are you will need to jack up the wheel with the transmission in neutral and see if you can easily rotate the wheel, if not then the caliper is most likely seized, if you can rotate it then try turning the ignition on and rotate the wheel and have them depress the brake pedal to see if the brakes are working and stops the wheel from turning, if it does then that caliper is not seized, rinse and repeat for the other side, make sure you block one of wheels in front and in back of it so the vehicle doesn't roll of the jack while it's in neutral.

Also make sure your assistant keeps the brake pedal depressed so there's fluid coming out until you have retighten the fittings and or bleeder valves, or it will suck air into the system and they will need to be bled to purge the air out.

Again make sure you keep the fluid level in the master cylinder topped off so you don't get air in to the system.

Also be careful not to get any brake fluid on the paint, it can damage it, also avoid getting any on the rotors/brake pads.

does the tech know what he is talking about? you can't bleed it without turning the the key on and pressing the brake.

that's not where you bleed it. the one on the right is where you stick a hose and bleed it.

 

[Toystory2]

You really need to know if you're getting hydraulic pressure to the rear to know if there's a blockage or not, a little bit of fluid will come out when you loosen a fitting just from fluid in the brake hose/line.

Now that you have them loosened, I think you need to check for pressure, turn the ignition on have someone depress the brake pedal, loosen the fitting again and see if you get fluid coming out under pressure, it should come out forcefully and not just a trickle, if the fluid come out with some force/pressure, I would next go to the bleeder valve as mentioned by 4r-4ever, I would think the tech would know he needed to turn the ignition on for the rears but he may not have, for the fronts you don't have to turn on the ignition so he may not have done so for the rears, the bleeder valve is directly on the opposite side from the #2 fitting, it is small and has a hole in the nippled end, if the tech actually loosen the bleeder valves they shouldn't be very tight, be very careful when you tighten the bleeder valve back down, they are very small and you can easily break them off if you go crazy when tightening them, if you get fluid coming out under pressure then there's no blockage but you could still have seized calipers, to check if they are you will need to jack up the wheel with the transmission in neutral and see if you can easily rotate the wheel, if not then the caliper is most likely seized, if you can rotate it then try turning the ignition on and rotate the wheel and have them depress the brake pedal to see if the brakes are working and stops the wheel from turning, if it does then that caliper is not seized, rinse and repeat for the other side, make sure you block one of wheels in front and in back of it so the vehicle doesn't roll of the jack while it's in neutral.

Also make sure your assistant keeps the brake pedal depressed so there's fluid coming out until you have retighten the fittings and or bleeder valves, or it will suck air into the system and they will need to be bled to purge the air out.

Again make sure you keep the fluid level in the master cylinder topped off so you don't get air in to the system.

Also be careful not to get any brake fluid on the paint, it can damage it, also avoid getting any on the rotors/brake pads.

Awesome thank you so much for the additional details! Unfortunately my assistant didn’t work out this evening. So I’ll give it another go in a few days, Lord willing. Ordered some Toyota brake fluid to have on hand instead my OLD bottle of Prestone. In the meantime, gonna go some studying on how brake systems work in more detail.


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[Toystory2]

Here’s one of the rear rotors. Looks to me like the brakes aren’t engaging. Could be wrong tho. Any thoughts?


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[AuSeeker]

Here’s one of the rear rotors. Looks to me like the brakes aren’t engaging. Could be wrong tho. Any thoughts?


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On the contrary, as shiny as the braking surface is on that rotor I would say they are definitely engaging, the question is, is the caliper releasing, can you easily turn the rotor?

If so I think that side is working just fine, especially if the back of that rotor looks the same as what is see in your photo.

 

[Toystory2]

On the contrary, as shiny as the braking surface is on that rotor I would say they are definitely engaging, the question is, is the caliper releasing, can you easily turn the rotor?

If so I think that side is working just fine, especially if the back of that rotor looks the same as what is see in your photo.

Well that would make sense, the pads would be keeping the rotors shiny. I figured there would be more markings or lines where the pads contact it. I’ll take a peek at the back and see what it looks like too. I’ll check the other rotor as well.

If all the rotors look the same, I could just try opening the bleeder myself, making sure the ignition is on and see what happens. I trust the tech turned on the ignition first, but I wasn’t there so I cannot confirm for sure.


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[AuSeeker]

Well that would make sense, the pads would be keeping the rotors shiny. I figured there would be more markings or lines where the pads contact it. I’ll take a peek at the back and see what it looks like too. I’ll check the other rotor as well.

If all the rotors look the same, I could just try opening the bleeder myself, making sure the ignition is on and see what happens. I trust the tech turned on the ignition first, but I wasn’t there so I cannot confirm for sure.


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[MENTION=664173]Toystory2[/MENTION] , keep in mind just turning on the ignition is not enough, someone has to also depress the brake pedal to get pressure to the back before you open the bleeder valve.

You would be surprised how many Techs not familiar with a certain vehicle would know you have to turn on the ignition, not all vehicles are that way, there are many vehicles out there that you don't have to turn on the ignition to bleed the rear brakes, the Tech just needs to do a little research on the specifics of each vehicle if he doesn't work on that vehicle model all the time .

 

[Toystory2]

[MENTION=664173]Toystory2[/MENTION] , keep in mind just turning on the ignition is not enough, someone has to also depress the brake pedal to get pressure to the back before you open the bleeder valve.

You would be surprised how many Techs not familiar with a certain vehicle would know you have to turn on the ignition, not all vehicles are that way, there are many vehicles out there that you don't have to turn on the ignition to bleed the rear brakes, the Tech just needs to do a little research on the specifics of each vehicle if he doesn't work on that vehicle model all the time .

Thanks for the reminder about the pedal! You know, that’s a possibility that he didn’t realize about the 4Runner. Hope so anyway : )

Does the opening of the bleeder screw and brake pedal depress need to occur at the exact same time to avoid sucking air in? Or is it inevitable that some air gets in?


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[AuSeeker]

Thanks for the reminder about the pedal! You know, that’s a possibility that he didn’t realize about the 4Runner. Hope so anyway : )

Does the opening of the bleeder screw and brake pedal depress need to occur at the exact same time to avoid sucking air in? Or is it inevitable that some air gets in?


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Switch on, the brake pedal needs to be depressed and held down until you open and close the bleeder valve, if everything is working correctly fluid will squirt out of the bleeder valve under pressure, as soon as you see fluid coming out close the bleeder valve ASAP, no air will get in the system if you do it this way, unless you let the reservoir get too low.

Also you still haven't said if the rotor will turn or not, we need to know this to determine if the caliper is seized or not??

 

[Toystory2]

Switch on, the brake pedal needs to be depressed and held down until you open and close the bleeder valve, if everything is working correctly fluid will squirt out of the bleeder valve under pressure, as soon as you see fluid coming out close the bleeder valve ASAP, no air will get in the system if you do it this way, unless you let the reservoir get too low.

Also you still haven't said if the rotor will turn or not, we need to know this to determine if the caliper is seized or not??

Okay great, that sounds pretty straightforward. I should have my assistant the next couple of days so we will see if those rotors turn.


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[Toystory2]

Switch on, the brake pedal needs to be depressed and held down until you open and close the bleeder valve, if everything is working correctly fluid will squirt out of the bleeder valve under pressure, as soon as you see fluid coming out close the bleeder valve ASAP, no air will get in the system if you do it this way, unless you let the reservoir get too low.

Also you still haven't said if the rotor will turn or not, we need to know this to determine if the caliper is seized or not??

So it looks like I have brake fluid coming out of both bleeders. Got out there tonight and sure enough with the ignition on and brake pedal down, brake fluid came flowing out, not trickling at all!

I also tried the other nut on the caliper and got fluid there too.

Here is a pic of the other rotor. I see more markings on this side so not sure. Next step is to check and see if rotors will turn.

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[AuSeeker]

So it looks like I have brake fluid coming out of both bleeders. Got out there tonight and sure enough with the ignition on and brake pedal down, brake fluid came flowing out, not trickling at all!

I also tried the other nut on the caliper and got fluid there too.

Here is a pic of the other rotor. I see more markings on this side so not sure. Next step is to check and see if rotors will turn.

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That's great, and that other rotor looks fine, the "markings" are normal wear, most likely a small stone or some kind of road debris got stuck by the brake pad and caused the minor "markings" you're seeing, so now just try turning the rotor by hand without depressing the brake pedal, if you can that's great and then press the brake pedal and see if it stops you from being able to turn it, it you can't then that great as well, if both sides are the same and you can turn them and they can't be turned with the brake pedal depressed then it means the calipers aren't seized and your brakes are fine!

 

[Toystory2]

That's great, and that other rotor looks fine, the "markings" are normal wear, most likely a small stone or some kind of road debris got stuck by the brake pad and caused the minor "markings" you're seeing, so now just try turning the rotor by hand without depressing the brake pedal, if you can that's great and then press the brake pedal and see if it stops you from being able to turn it, it you can't then that great as well, if both sides are the same and you can turn them and they can't be turned with the brake pedal depressed then it means the calipers aren't seized and your brakes are fine!

I’m assuming I have to take the tires off and turn the rotor by hand? Just to make sure, I need to jack up both rear wheels, chock the front tires, put in neutral and then turn the wheel?


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[AuSeeker]

I’m assuming I have to take the tires off and turn the rotor by hand? Just to make sure, I need to jack up both rear wheels, chock the front tires, put in neutral and then turn the wheel?


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There’s no need to remove the wheels/tires, it will also be safer in case the jack falls over, it will be easier to turn with them on, other than that yes, on the rest, don’t forget to see if the brakes can stop you from turning the wheels.

 

[Toystory2]

There’s no need to remove the wheels/tires, it will also be safer in case the jack falls over, it will be easier to turn with them on, other than that yes, on the rest, don’t forget to see if the brakes can stop you from turning the wheels.

Okay, so it looks like the brakes are working. Was able to turn both wheels by hand both in park and in neutral. Had my wife hit the brake, and then could not turn either wheel. We tried it a few times and it worked as expected each time. Parking brake works too.

Not sure what to make of what the tech said now. Maybe he was just confused and didn’t know to turn on the ignition.

I had originally wanted him to flush the brake fluid, because they have started feeling softer. The pads look decent front and back, so I thought a fluid change might be needed.


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[AuSeeker]

That's great, I was thinking you would be good but you have to go through the steps to make sure!

Not that all being said, where did you take it too to get the brake fluid flushed?

I will now comment on the "Tech" as we have been calling him, this guy is no "Tech", a true mechanical technician doesn't know it all as far as all specs and procedures, but he does know how to find all that info, they have shop manuals for a reason, no one can remember all the technical details for all makes and models of vehicles, a good Tech will know when he's not familiar with a certain vehicle and go to the shop manual to get the proper procedure/s and technical details, so unless a Tech is specialist on a certain make and model and work on that model often then he will know much of the technical details but still not know it all and will refer to the shop manual.

The worst part about this "Tech" is that he didn't even try and find what was "wrong", when a Tech finds an issue such as he was reporting to you, they should give you solutions and to know what the solution is he would have to find out what was causing the "issue", which in this case as you know isn't even an issue!!

I still want to know generally where this guy works, an independent garage, a Toyota dealership, in his backyard (nothing wrong with this if that the only place you have to do the work, but still be professional about it) you don't have to name the business, unless it is a Toyota dealership and I would then let everyone know so they don't go there??

 

[Toystory2]

That's great, I was thinking you would be good but you have to go through the steps to make sure!

Not that all being said, where did you take it too to get the brake fluid flushed?

I will now comment on the "Tech" as we have been calling him, this guy is no "Tech", a true mechanical technician doesn't know it all as far as all specs and procedures, but he does know how to find all that info, they have shop manuals for a reason, no one can remember all the technical details for all makes and models of vehicles, a good Tech will know when he's not familiar with a certain vehicle and go to the shop manual to get the proper procedure/s and technical details, so unless a Tech is specialist on a certain make and model and work on that model often then he will know much of the technical details but still not know it all and will refer to the shop manual.

The worst part about this "Tech" is that he didn't even try and find what was "wrong", when a Tech finds an issue such as he was reporting to you, they should give you solutions and to know what the solution is he would have to find out what was causing the "issue", which in this case as you know isn't even an issue!!

I still want to know generally where this guy works, an independent garage, a Toyota dealership, in his backyard (nothing wrong with this if that the only place you have to do the work, but still be professional about it) you don't have to name the business, unless it is a Toyota dealership and I would then let everyone know so they don't go there??

I’m not super familiar with this gentleman, but I know he has a really good reputation and based on reviews they do good work. His independent and has his own garage, but perhaps not as experienced as some. He’s a younger fellow too and I wanted to give him a chance. I was hoping he’d be able to troubleshoot it a little further, but it may have been a little beyond his scope.

And you bring up a good point about the differences in makes and models and years, etc. I told him the vehicle model ahead of time just in case.

But admittedly I sort of glad this happened as it gave me an opportunity to learn some more about brakes, especially with your help!! I sincerely appreciate you being so responsive. I don’t have a lot folks I can lean on for mechanic advice. Hopefully one day I’ll get to help someone else too.

Working on these rigs is a hobby to me and I really enjoy it most of the time LOL

Next up I suppose will be DIY brake flush.


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[AuSeeker]

I’m not super familiar with this gentleman, but I know he has a really good reputation and based on reviews they do good work. His independent and has his own garage, but perhaps not as experienced as some. He’s a younger fellow too and I wanted to give him a chance. I was hoping he’d be able to troubleshoot it a little further, but it may have been a little beyond his scope.

And you bring up a good point about the differences in makes and models and years, etc. I told him the vehicle model ahead of time just in case.

But admittedly I sort of glad this happened as it gave me an opportunity to learn some more about brakes, especially with your help!! I sincerely appreciate you being so responsive. I don’t have a lot folks I can lean on for mechanic advice. Hopefully one day I’ll get to help someone else too.

Working on these rigs is a hobby to me and I really enjoy it most of the time LOL

Next up I suppose will be DIY brake flush.


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You're welcome, I know you will pay it forward whenever you can, just be sure to give good and accurate advice.