**Rear Coil Spring Discussion - The Perfect 3rd Gen Rear Spring**

[HiMiles]

I've had about 6 different rear spring pairs in my 4Runner, with many more sub-combos of packers and air bags. I have both high and variable weight in the back, since I have a 4XI swingout bumper and tow a light car trailer from time to time.

I ended up with the Superflex coils, simply because they have the highest "final" rate of any of the heavily progressive coils and prevent big rake changes with variable weight. This is a huge selling point, especially when they still ride very nicely sans trailer.

Unfortunately, air bags aren't quite the silver bullet they'd seem to be for variable weight, since you can't safely run them at 0psi. I always found them a bit harsh unladen, even inside soft coil springs.

 

[CT135]

So with your bumper/swing out. Roughly how much lift are you getting from the super flex? Hub to fender would be awesome to know.

I've had about 6 different rear spring pairs in my 4Runner, with many more sub-combos of packers and air bags. I have both high and variable weight in the back, since I have a 4XI swingout bumper and tow a light car trailer from time to time.

I ended up with the Superflex coils, simply because they have the highest "final" rate of any of the heavily progressive coils and prevent big rake changes with variable weight. This is a huge selling point, especially when they still ride very nicely sans trailer.

Unfortunately, air bags aren't quite the silver bullet they'd seem to be for variable weight, since you can't safely run them at 0psi. I always found them a bit harsh unladen, even inside soft coil springs.

 

[Fishwerks]

I for one, would love a LT rear spring capable of staying in the coil buckets at full droop, capable of supporting 200-250lbs of rear weight (over stock) and sitting at 2.5-3” of lift. My ideal spring may be different than yours, but that’s where we can start to collect some data and see if there are some common themes to approach a vendor about a custom spring potentially.

I'm glad you started this thread. I've been talking to Tyler about rear springs a good bit lately. I like the 861s when I have the swingout on and the truck loaded for a camping trip or something, but most of the time I wish they sat 1-2" lower. Like [MENTION=122900]AZBub[/MENTION] mentioned, you really need a lot of weight to get them down to a reasonable height.

I went through the same process on my last 4runner, actually had most of these springs on it at one point or another trying to find the right one I liked.

I used some OME chart to fill in spring rates for most of them, and confirming free heights by hand measurements. The superflex and 891 are progressive so hard to give an exact value for, but superflex definitely felt softer than the 861. IMO the 861 were too stiff.

In the end I was most happy with the superflex, and would get that again if I built another t4r.





My requirements were very similar to yours: +250ish lbs, less than 3" lift, long enough to not fall out when drooped.

Good to know, I've been considering superflex or one of the dobinsons variations as options.

I need a 1" lift coil that holds weight like an 861 and has enough free height not to fall out..... :crazy:

Take a sawzall to the 861s and let us know how much to cut.

 

[Dieselchessy]

I was thinking more along the lines of what we did in high school to lower rigs. Take a torch and apply heat at the right point until the spring relaxes to the desired height.

 

[Taylor20]

OME 861. You either love em or hate em. The thing is if you have a lot of gear all the time or an actual overland rig buildout in back is where these springs shine the most. Yes unloaded they sit high. No they are not for a rig that doesn’t have a ton of weight in back. A ton of weight would be along the lines of a fridge, slide, storage, support gear, rear tire swing out with fuel etc.... Just like you would re-gear to gain back performance from weight and tire size etc you add these springs to deal with....weight.

I have those now, and those that I have talked to with them agree its too much lift and too stiff. This sparked the quest, for me at least, to find a more suitable spring.

I just got a Slinky/Icon setup for our FZJ80 - the coils are designed to have multiple dead loops at ride height that work as a helper spring to keep the coil from falling out when drooped. Perhaps the Australian company that makes them would be interested in rolling a 3rd gen solution as well?

Slinky is good stuff, I'm just leaning more towards Dobinson because I have been in contact with someone about a creating a new option for the 3rd gen's...and I have just heard more about Dobinson.

FWIW in my search for a shorter coil I got this from Dobinson.
C59-137V - 170lbs open -245lbs ride height - 331lbs collapsed - 420mm FH. The 70 mm difference in free height from an 861 or superflex might be an issue.

If the free height was there, these would be an excellent option with say under 150 extra lbs.

So is there a difference between the Dobsinson 210V and the OEM LC springs? WHy would I want to buy one vs the other? Can it handle weight better than the oem but isn't as crazy tall/heavy duty as the OME 861. Cause if that is the case I may be buying them.

Spring rate and coil diameter for the most part. The difference in minimal, only about .5" between the two.

I've had about 6 different rear spring pairs in my 4Runner, with many more sub-combos of packers and air bags. I have both high and variable weight in the back, since I have a 4XI swingout bumper and tow a light car trailer from time to time.
I ended up with the Superflex coils, simply because they have the highest "final" rate of any of the heavily progressive coils and prevent big rake changes with variable weight. This is a huge selling point, especially when they still ride very nicely sans trailer.
Unfortunately, air bags aren't quite the silver bullet they'd seem to be for variable weight, since you can't safely run them at 0psi. I always found them a bit harsh unladen, even inside soft coil springs.

I had Superflex before the 861's and swingout, drawer system. Amazing springs, but with extra weight, they sagged.

I'm glad you started this thread. I've been talking to Tyler about rear springs a good bit lately. I like the 861s when I have the swingout on and the truck loaded for a camping trip or something, but most of the time I wish they sat 1-2" lower. Like [MENTION=122900]AZBub[/MENTION] mentioned, you really need a lot of weight to get them down to a reasonable height.

Ya, they are a good option, just not the right option for most.

I was thinking more along the lines of what we did in high school to lower rigs. Take a torch and apply heat at the right point until the spring relaxes to the desired height.

Horrible idea

 

[Dieselchessy]

Tough crowd. LOL!

 

[rickashay]

Good discussion. I might have to try the superflex's but I am worried I will be too heavy for them too...

I am just waiting for someone to try the Dobinsons 675V before I make a move.... any takers? lol

 

[Mark_BC]

Is there a front version of this thread? I'm going to get a coastal offroad front bumper (100 lb) plus winch so i want to know which coil and shock to get for about maybe 1" of lift and overlanding with gear in the back.
3rd Gen 4Runner Closed Top Front Bumper Kit - Coastal Offroad
I know there's tons of threads on suspension but it changes from year to year and there's too much information overload.

 

[Taylor20]

Good discussion. I might have to try the superflex's but I am worried I will be too heavy for them too...

I am just waiting for someone to try the Dobinsons 675V before I make a move.... any takers? lol

I will be as soon as my 861's sell

 

[Dieselchessy]

Stumbled across this site. It’s got a pretty good list of specs.

Cruiser Outfitters

 

[Tommy854runner]

What rear spring would be best for about 2-2.5" lift but a soft ride? It won't be off road very much so looking for best ride quality possible. Probably going to run either a 265-75-16 or 285-70-16.

 

[2wheelnut]

What rear spring would be best for about 2-2.5" lift but a soft ride? It won't be off road very much so looking for best ride quality possible. Probably going to run either a 265-75-16 or 285-70-16.

I'm in the same boat, so far as I've read up on OME 906's would do it but a little harsh, OME 890s would be good unless you need full droop then they may fall out.

I'm also debating the fronts.

Bought the rig with mish mash of parts. 5100's up front and OME 895s with OME shocks in the rear. Rides like garbage.

 

[Dieselchessy]

I started to make a spread sheet with all the rear spring options and then decided I was going 890's and I'd change if I don't like it.

890 seems about the best choice for 2.5-3" lift when not carrying lots of weight. Amongst the other 2.5-3" options they seem less likely to fall out.

model/spring rate/wire diameter/free height D/P

OME 2890 190 .591 17.13/16.73
OME 2891 210 0.63 16.53/16.14
OME 2906 220 .669 15.35/14.96

I bought Tundra TRD coils for the front.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

I started to make a spread sheet with all the rear spring options and then decided I was going 890's and I'd change if I don't like it.

890 seems about the best choice for 2.5-3" lift when not carrying lots of weight. Amongst the other 2.5-3" options they seem less likely to fall out.

model/spring rate/wire diameter/free height D/P

OME 2890 190 .591 17.13/16.73
OME 2891 210 0.63 16.53/16.14
OME 2906 220 .669 15.35/14.96

I bought Tundra TRD coils for the front.

One thing to note with the numbers above is that these springs won't give the same amount of lift. Using these numbers (which I haven't verified, but assume to be correct), here are the spring heights with 1000 lbs of load:

rate free H H @1000lb
890 190 17.13 11.87
891 210 16.53 11.77
906 220 15.35 10.80

Note that 890 and 891 have about 1" more lift than 906.

I have about a 2" lift with the 906's in my '97 (which is exactly what I wanted), so you'll get closer to 3" lift with the 890/891.

I'm quite happy with the ride with the 906's, I don't find them too stiff at all (and I like comfort, so take that for what it's worth).

 

[Dieselchessy]

That height at 1000# would be good data to have. Would be nice if all this type data was readily available.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

That height at 1000# would be good data to have. Would be nice if all this type data was readily available.

Agreed. It's easy to calculate the expected ride height given the free height and spring rate, but it wouldn't account for progressive springs.

 

[4runnerfiend]

What rear spring would be best for about 2-2.5" lift but a soft ride? It won't be off road very much so looking for best ride quality possible. Probably going to run either a 265-75-16 or 285-70-16.

If your rig will not see offroad and will not have tons of weight in the rear then the best ride quality will be oem springs. So... a spacer lift will be your best bet. Daystar makes a 2.5" and a 1.5" spacer for the rear.
Amazon.com: Daystar, Toyota 4Runner 2.5" Rear Lift Kit, fits 1996 to 2002 2/4WD, all transmissions, all cabs KT09108BK, Made in America: Automotive
Amazon.com: Daystar, Toyota 4Runner 1.5" Rear Lift Kit, fits 1996 to 2002 2/4WD, all transmissions, all cabs KT09107BK, Made in America, Black: Automotive

 

[fourfive]

I started to make a spread sheet with all the rear spring options and then decided I was going 890's and I'd change if I don't like it.

890 seems about the best choice for 2.5-3" lift when not carrying lots of weight. Amongst the other 2.5-3" options they seem less likely to fall out.

model/spring rate/wire diameter/free height D/P

OME 2890 190 .591 17.13/16.73
OME 2891 210 0.63 16.53/16.14
OME 2906 220 .669 15.35/14.96

I bought Tundra TRD coils for the front.

2.5-3.0" lift sounds about right when I had my 890s. I try to use center hub to fender measurements so that it's easier to establish a baseline for lift. With 890s I was consistently at 22.5-22.75" center hub to fender with a couple hundred pounds of cargo gear. With my Toytec superflex (the ones advertised for 3.75" lift) I sit 23-23.25" with the same amount of cargo weight. They handled similarly & was happy with both. I don't think the coil falling out should be an issue if a proper length shock is used.

For my next front set up I'm considering the Tundra TRD/Tundra bilsteins or Tundra 6112.

 

[HiMiles]

So with your bumper/swing out. Roughly how much lift are you getting from the super flex? Hub to fender would be awesome to know.

Here's a picture. This is with Superflex + trimmed OEM top cones. The rear bumper is a 4XI with a swing-out 34" tire and a full jerry can, so fairly heavy.

Hub-to-fender distance is 23.75". Even with the bumper setup, I imagine I'm still short of the 1000lb total load on each spring.

 

[owyheerat]

Good discussion. I might have to try the superflex's but I am worried I will be too heavy for them too...

I am just waiting for someone to try the Dobinsons 675V before I make a move.... any takers? lol

Addison,

I'm late to this discussion. I am very interested in this topic though. I currently am running 861's w/ Tokico LC shocks. I love the flex, but wish the ride height was a little lower. Also, they are too stiff.
For reference, I have a Bandit design rear bumper with dual swing outs (which is heavy) and 35" spare, rear storage / sleeping platform, fridge, Rago rear window panels (full) and usually my 70lb golden retriever. So I'm guessing 400+lbs. And the 861's are still too stiff.

Have you made a decision yet?

Is Dobinson the solution?

Thanks

Durwin