Rear Driveshaft Rebuild/Replace?

[JuniorPigeon]

So I've done my research and I've gotten to the point that I think I need a new driveshaft in the ol' daily. About 5k miles ago I replaced all 3 u-joints in the rear driveshaft after one (or more) went bad. I put good Spicers in it so I was surprised that now I've got a new slight vibration under throttle. It seems like it's the double cardan now, and not the u-joints themselves.

Should I be considering/looking for another problem altogether? If not, is rebuilding the better option than trying to hunt down a new one? I do have a specialty driveshaft shop local to me.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[BoomerBob]

Isn't there a carrier bearing on the 4wd models in the middle of the rear driveshaft? Could it be that bearing or possibly a diff or trans bearing although the latter is unlikely.

Also; you can remove the rear driveshaft and run in 4wd drive mode to confirm or eliminate the rear driveshaft. Could be coming from the front. Vibrations can travel pretty well. I'd also eliminate an out of balance wheel.

What speeds and rpm's are you feeling this at? Mileage probably doesn't matter much for a rig that goes off road a lot but what is it anyway?

 

[JuniorPigeon]

Isn't there a carrier bearing on the 4wd models in the middle of the rear driveshaft? Could it be that bearing or possibly a diff or trans bearing although the latter is unlikely.

Also; you can remove the rear driveshaft and run in 4wd drive mode to confirm or eliminate the rear driveshaft. Could be coming from the front. Vibrations can travel pretty well. I'd also eliminate an out of balance wheel.

What speeds and rpm's are you feeling this at? Mileage probably doesn't matter much for a rig that goes off road a lot but what is it anyway?

There is no carrier bearing, that I'm aware of haha.

Is the front shaft turning when not in 4wd? I could be wrong but it seems to me that in regular 2wd commuting I wouldn't feel the front shaft?

Edit: Though now I see what you're saying, that would eliminate/confirm the rear shaft for sure if I drive around in front wheel. Is there any negative to doing this?

I feel it at basically any speed, it's throttle related. It doesn't really get off road I've just daily driven it for years. It does have a few miles - 290k.

 

[phattyduck]

Isn't there a carrier bearing on the 4wd models in the middle of the rear driveshaft?

Tacomas have carrier bearings, the 4Runner is a single piece (well, with a slip joint) driveshaft. That may be where you are confused.

The front shaft in 2WD will sometimes spin a bit, but it won't respond at all to throttle inputs.

You could be having vibrations from the double-cardan joint, rear diff pinion bearing or transfer case output bearing.

-Charlie

 

[Kanoe]

About 5k miles ago I replaced all 3 u-joints in the rear driveshaft after one (or more) went bad.

You might be the first (or nearly) person to report successfully replacing the 2 u-joints in the double cardan joint. Can you share the part numbers of the u-joints you used for this and where you got them?

There are new built driveshafts available like Tom Woods for pretty reasonable prices. Might consider that option instead of messing with the old again.

 

[mtbtim]

You might be the first (or nearly) person to report successfully replacing the 2 u-joints in the double cardan joint. Can you share the part numbers of the u-joints you used for this and where you got them?

There are new built driveshafts available like Tom Woods for pretty reasonable prices. Might consider that option instead of messing with the old again.

[MENTION=125309]dogtail[/MENTION] had one successfully rebuilt at a shop. Here's the link to the thread he started:Double Cardan rebuild

Even though there's proof that they can be successfully rebuilt, I think the jury is still out on whether the available replacement parts will hold up long enough to make the expense of rebuilding the double cardan joint worth it. The owner of a reputable driveline shop in San Jose, California told me he will not rebuild them because the available replacements parts for them aren't up to his standard. The guy has been in the driveline business for over 30 years so I'm taking his word for it since I believe he knows what he's talking about. However, [MENTION=125309]dogtail[/MENTION] does have a lot of miles on that driveshaft now, so who knows if it's going to continue to hold up well or not.

 

[BoomerBob]

For what it's worth, when you order a driveshaft from an online company which may be one person at a desk or through a local shop, chances are they get that driveshaft from one company out of Reno, NV and they send it to you. That was my personal experience when I bought a new driveshaft. The local shop orders through them and charged $60 more than the online middleman seller. I don't know if there's any saving from attempting to go directly through the manufacturer (below) but it might be worth a phone call. Mine came with Spicer u-joints. Not as good as OEM Toyota but are still good and half the price.

PowerTrain Industries - Catalogs

 

[pauldub]

You should check that the slip joint isn't sloppy. I have an OEM one with good u-joints and a good double cardan; however, the slip joint is worn and the driveshaft vibrates. You certainly can remove the rear shaft and drive in 4WD without any problem. I've done it several times while diagnosing driveshaft issues. I don't think I ever drove faster than 60 mph in FWD, so it's good at least to that speed. My current driveshaft was built by a guy in San Jose, probably the same guy that Tim referenced, and it's so straight that he didn't have to add any balance weights. You can also order one from Tom Wood and they will build it and ship to you pretty quickly. You can look up the pricing on his website.

 

[JuniorPigeon]

You could be having vibrations from the double-cardan joint, rear diff pinion bearing or transfer case output bearing.

Hmm, I wonder what the process of diagnosing the bearings could be.. I would guess pull the driveshaft and see if the flanges have any play in the bearings?

You might be the first (or nearly) person to report successfully replacing the 2 u-joints in the double cardan joint. Can you share the part numbers of the u-joints you used for this and where you got them?

There are new built driveshafts available like Tom Woods for pretty reasonable prices. Might consider that option instead of messing with the old again.

I used the same 3 Spicers all around. That's what I was recommended, and I wouldn't personally recommend that until I figure out that isn't the current new problem lol.

I like the Tom Woods, a lot. I just hate to put that kind of money into a driveshaft instead of something for my 4th gen.

For what it's worth, when you order a driveshaft from an online company which may be one person at a desk or through a local shop, chances are they get that driveshaft from one company out of Reno, NV and they send it to you. That was my personal experience when I bought a new driveshaft. The local shop orders through them and charged $60 more than the online middleman seller. I don't know if there's any saving from attempting to go directly through the manufacturer (below) but it might be worth a phone call. Mine came with Spicer u-joints. Not as good as OEM Toyota but are still good and half the price.

PowerTrain Industries - Catalogs

I called and got a quote of $548.25 for my shaft. That seems high to me, but at least it's an option.

You should check that the slip joint isn't sloppy. I have an OEM one with good u-joints and a good double cardan; however, the slip joint is worn and the driveshaft vibrates. You certainly can remove the rear shaft and drive in 4WD without any problem. I've done it several times while diagnosing driveshaft issues. I don't think I ever drove faster than 60 mph in FWD, so it's good at least to that speed. My current driveshaft was built by a guy in San Jose, probably the same guy that Tim referenced, and it's so straight that he didn't have to add any balance weights. You can also order one from Tom Wood and they will build it and ship to you pretty quickly. You can look up the pricing on his website.

That's something I'll for sure have to look into as well.

 

[dogtail]

[MENTION=125309]dogtail[/MENTION] had one successfully rebuilt at a shop. Here's the link to the thread he started:Double Cardan rebuild

Even though there's proof that they can be successfully rebuilt, I think the jury is still out on whether the available replacement parts will hold up long enough to make the expense of rebuilding the double cardan joint worth it. The owner of a reputable driveline shop in San Jose, California told me he will not rebuild them because the available replacements parts for them aren't up to his standard. The guy has been in the driveline business for over 30 years so I'm taking his word for it since I believe he knows what he's talking about. However, [MENTION=125309]dogtail[/MENTION] does have a lot of miles on that driveshaft now, so who knows if it's going to continue to hold up well or not.

So far so good man. My driveline shop does a lot of race and rock crawler driveshafts. They've been in the business a long time and they know their stuff. I think its more that people don't know about what they don't venture into. A lot of shops may not want to break it apart cause its not a worth their time, or they're not experienced on it, so they give you a song and dance to avoid it. The DC joint is a simple needle bearing, its not rocket science, and quality bearing replacement is available, and I like the idea of keeping the OEM shaft. Its nice to balance the shaft also.
I do a lot of miles, about 1,000 per week with a 906 2 inch lift.

 

[BoomerBob]

I called and got a quote of $548.25 for my shaft. That seems high to me, but at least it's an option.

Check these guys out then. Even though they come from the same place; there's a price difference.

Toyota Replacement Driveshafts

 

[Bad Luck]

Check these guys out then. Even though they come from the same place; there's a price difference.

Toyota Replacement Driveshafts

That place wants $565 for a double cv driveshaft. For that price I'd rather spend the extra $24 and get a Tom's Woods: Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts - Tom Woods Custom Drive Shafts Custom Driveshafts Specialist

 

[BoomerBob]

That place wants $565 for a double cv driveshaft. For that price I'd rather spend the extra $24 and get a Tom's Woods: Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts - Tom Woods Custom Drive Shafts Custom Driveshafts Specialist

Thanks; I've bookmarked this site even though they don't make driveshafts for 2wd T4R's or prerunner's. Do you happen to know what brand of u-joints they use?

I've been wondering why these shops don't buy Toyota u-joints and install them on their custom built driveshafts or at least make it an option even if it will cost an extra $70-$100 for the customer.

 

[Kanoe]

Thanks; I've bookmarked this site even though they don't make driveshafts for 2wd T4R's or prerunner's. Do you happen to know what brand of u-joints they use?

I've been wondering why these shops don't buy Toyota u-joints and install them on their custom built driveshafts or at least make it an option even if it will cost an extra $70-$100 for the customer.

If you read through their websites, they say they build the new driveshafts with a commonly available u-joint 1310 I believe. This gets you out of the pickle of having a hard time finding parts for the Toyota OEM shaft. Toyota does not use commonly available sizes.

 

[BoomerBob]

If you read through their websites, they say they build the new driveshafts with a commonly available u-joint 1310 I believe. This gets you out of the pickle of having a hard time finding parts for the Toyota OEM shaft. Toyota does not use commonly available sizes.

Do you know what brand the 1310 is?

I guess a future owner would need to know these are not the stock size to buy replacement for. Is that correct?

 

[Bad Luck]

Thanks; I've bookmarked this site even though they don't make driveshafts for 2wd T4R's or prerunner's. Do you happen to know what brand of u-joints they use?

I've been wondering why these shops don't buy Toyota u-joints and install them on their custom built driveshafts or at least make it an option even if it will cost an extra $70-$100 for the customer.

From the Tom Wood's driveshaft website I linked. About 2/3 of the way down:
"For stock vehicles (Stock motor, transmission, t-case and differential, NO LIFT) we can build stock type replacement drive shaft using 1310 series u-joints rather than the stock Toyota OE u-joints."
After reading this I would say they use OEM toyota joints unless you specify that you would prefer 1310 joints. I doubt the 1310's would carry as much warranty coverage as the Toyota OEM joints.

 

[BoomerBob]

From the Tom Wood's driveshaft website I linked. About 2/3 of the way down:
"For stock vehicles (Stock motor, transmission, t-case and differential, NO LIFT) we can build stock type replacement drive shaft using 1310 series u-joints rather than the stock Toyota OE u-joints."
After reading this I would say they use OEM toyota joints unless you specify that you would prefer 1310 joints. I doubt the 1310's would carry as much warranty coverage as the Toyota OEM joints.

From what I can tell; the 1310 series u-joints are made by Spicer. They are a decent quality joint from what my local driveshaft specialist says. Not as good as OEM Toyota but just fine for daily driving or regular offroading. Racing or heavy duty applications might want something else or simply keep an eye on them a little closer.

The good thing about u-joints is they generally don't just break. They get loose and start making noise that gets louder with more vibration as they get worse so there's usually plenty of warning about replacing them. Of course there will always be those few who are so clueless they just keep driving until it falls apart on the road. Bad juju when that happens of course. Really bad if it's the front one.

At my local shop he had a big driveshaft laying on the floor that had been twisted like it was taffy. It came off a gravel hauling truck that was fully loaded and somehow he managed to twist it up when he started going up a steep hill. The u-joints were intact though. I'm guessing he had the rpm's high then accidentally dropped the clutch. The drive train gave at its weakest link which was that shaft.

 

[BackOff]

So I've done my research and I've gotten to the point that I think I need a new driveshaft in the ol' daily. About 5k miles ago I replaced all 3 u-joints in the rear driveshaft after one (or more) went bad. I put good Spicers in it so I was surprised that now I've got a new slight vibration under throttle. It seems like it's the double cardan now, and not the u-joints themselves.

Should I be considering/looking for another problem altogether? If not, is rebuilding the better option than trying to hunt down a new one? I do have a specialty driveshaft shop local to me.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Not to sure i have seen a double cardan joint under my 4x4 v6 4th gen T4R...i have been wrong before.

There is a 'needle bearing' that can crap out.
Front diff, under the gas peddle area... can cause vibes.
Is a ton of info on it over on Tacoma World, not so much here.
ECGS makes a solid bushing to replace the needle bearing.

 

[Jidaran]

related question that I didn't want to start a new thread for:

Are slip yokes universal between all 4WD 3rd Gens? I know the rear drive shaft length is different between J-shifter and Multimode T-cases, but from what I can tell the slip yokes are the same. I'm hoping to throw a junkyard slip yoke from a 96 on my 02 as a temporary fix (I know it'd be at least a little bit out of balance).

 

[Hungryhawk]

Have you tried changing the flange to drive shaft by rotating shaft 180 degrees then rebolting to see if any difference in vibration. Then try 90 degree and rebolt?