Rear end bounce, bounce, Please comment

[Madizmz]

I've used the search bar. Now thats out of the way.

I have a 2000 sport 4wd sr5. It was recently lifted with the toytec 3 in spacer and bilstein 5100 in front. And ome 891 with bilstein 5125 in rear. We also put a 1 '' diff drop and the pdr-1 panhard drop bracket. At first it rode ok, then started to hear a clunk after about 1 week of driving. Narrowed that down to the front sway bar connecting link, which the drivers side bolt was loose. Tightened it down and it has been ok so far.

I have had this equipment for approx 2 months and I am really noticing that when hitting bumps in the road, especially when the rear wheels are independently taking a pothole or bump that I get a lot of waviness or swimming from the rear. Its very noticeable and it can't be normal for my application(I assume). I've read about the panhard geometry possibly being the culprit. The drop bracket was bolted but not welded. I've checked the bolts and nuts and all are tight. Anyone have any ideas here? Feel free.

I've included pics of the rear tire and rear end. Not sure if they will help.
Thanks.

 

[1985taylor1925]

What do you mean by waviness or swimming? I don't know how those drop brackets work since I don't use one. But it seems like it could move around easily with pressure from the panhard bar the way its mounted there. But I cant really tell how it holds there from that picture.

I think you may just be feeling the stiffness of your set up. There has been much discussion on this forum about how much front spacers affect ride quality. A 3 inch spacer is pretty extreme and I'm sure the front end ride quality is suffering as a result. That's also going to tear the cv boots pretty quickly without a diff drop. And for the back, without any weight back there that's a really stiff ride with the 891s. Those coils are intended to hold some weight.

Edit: I see you did install a diff drop, so that's good.

 

[Doc2012]

Um, get that panhard drop bracket welded. Good bet that's where it's coming from.

Or get a panhard that uses the STOCK mounting location.

 

[Madizmz]

What do you mean by waviness or swimming? I don't know how those drop brackets work since I don't use one. But it seems like it could move around easily with pressure from the panhard bar the way its mounted there. But I cant really tell how it holds there from that picture.

I think you may just be feeling the stiffness of your set up. There has been much discussion on this forum about how much front spacers affect ride quality. A 3 inch spacer is pretty extreme and I'm sure the front end ride quality is suffering as a result. That's also going to tear the cv boots pretty quickly without a diff drop. And for the back, without any weight back there that's a really stiff ride with the 891s. Those coils are intended to hold some weight.

Edit: I see you did install a diff drop, so that's good.

The swimming is like a left to right wave as if you were conducting a symphony - Ha. Kind of describes it though. Your probably right about stiffness but we went with 891's as we heard of 890's sagging over time.
Boots are trashed. Your right.

Um, get that panhard drop bracket welded. Good bet that's where it's coming from.

Or get a panhard that uses the STOCK mounting location.

I'm pretty sure the weld is an issue but I guess I'm curious as to what the weld can do to alleviate this motion... I assume the bracket is swinging left to right? I saw that the bracket should be loose and the rear centered before a weld, is that the process? I'm trying to gather as much info. as possible so I can describe to a tech who I will have do the work as I don't weld.

 

[steezemcqueen]

The panhard bracket needs to be welded in place. Weld it where it mounts to the stock bracket. That is your problem.

 

[1985taylor1925]

So what doc and steezeman said. That's what I was thinking just wasn't positive. That bracket looks like it can swivel side to side with just that bolt there. As they said you'll have to get it welded. Or you could just remove it all together and revert the panhard back to stock. I have a 3" rear lift and don't run a drop bracket and have never had a single issue. There has been much discussion about that on this forum as well, and many have said the same thing as me . . . its not a part you NEED with a lift 3" or less as a general rule. Your axle will be very slightly shifted without the bracket, but its not enough to really affect ride. You might feel a little side sweeping motion if you hit a big dip at highway speeds

 

[1985taylor1925]

The swimming is like a left to right wave as if you were conducting a symphony - Ha. Kind of describes it though. Your probably right about stiffness but we went with 891's as we heard of 890's sagging over time.
Boots are trashed. Your right.



I'm pretty sure the weld is an issue but I guess I'm curious as to what the weld can do to alleviate this motion... I assume the bracket is swinging left to right? I saw that the bracket should be loose and the rear centered before a weld, is that the process? I'm trying to gather as much info. as possible so I can describe to a tech who I will have do the work as I don't weld.

Yeah mine tore in a matter of months and that was with a 2" lift. Will you be hauling weight in the back or mounting steel bumpers or tire carriers? If not I wouldn't worry about 890s sagging. Ive been running 890s for almost a year now and got them with 100k miles and they aren't sagging. Maybe over time with added weight. You would definitely have a better ride though. Could also go 99 coils with 1" rear spacer if your not hauling weight often

 

[kball]

Personally I would just get rid of the panhard drop bracket. I don't think you need it with 891's. I have 890's without it and it's fine. If you had LC springs you would probably need it but I don't think 3"'s of lift or less needs it.

 

[Madizmz]

Guess I can't lose by trying without the bracket. I'll take it off, ride around a bit and see how it goes. If it's no better I can always try the welded bracket approach.
I do not plan to get bumpers or more weight constant weight. I do tow a little and attach a dirt bike on a hitch carrier from time to time.

I did not put the lift or bracket on, is this just simply removing the bolts or do I need to jack/support somewhere?

I really appreciate everyone's input. Thanks for your time.

 

[xcmtb83]

As stated by others is looks like the bracket could be swinging. Delete the bracket, mount to stock location, go test drive. If it is better either leave it attached to factory location or have the bracket welded on. I would recommend jacking in the center of the axle as jacking up on the frame is going to cause your axle to droop and it will be much more challenging to get the bolt to pass though the frame and the end of the bar.

 

[the great him]

if you decide to delete the bracket all together, then you should get the adjustable panhard bar. lifting or altering right height will shift or move the rear axle from centered to the right/passenger side... the drop bracket is designed to drop the bar back to a lower more "stock" location/geometry. i built my own custom drop bracket and then welded it to the stock mount, it works great and i dont have the issues you are speaking of.

the drop bracket is/was made for a reason, (not just to get you to spend more money either) and its a good reason. it will help with how the vehicle drives and behaves, but yes like the others have stated, simply just bolting it on allows to much "wiggle" room or room for movement(you can not get it tight enough to prevent movement) and that will have a much greater negative affect than even not having the drop bracket. so get that thing welded or buy the adjustable bar -if you ask me id do both, im gonna be buying the adjustable bar from toytec before long to fine-tune my rear axle. having you rear axle centered will prevent your rig from "dog trotting" as you drive down the road, and having the bar fixed and not able to shift side to side, will prevent your "tail wagging" over bumps and make your rig much more controllable especially in the corners.

 

[the great him]

and for heavens sakes man take care of that rust before it eats your rig alive.... hit that crap with the wire wheel and then shoot some epoxy paint over it before:rip:

 

[JohnsD90]

I'm cringing at your rust, glad i dont have to deal with crap anymore (for a few years).

 

[4x4mike]

Is your front end higher than the rear? What setting are your 5100's at?

From the side does the truck seem to sit level? The rears will settle over time.

I would park on a flat dry surface, grab a piece of chalk and a plum bob. Hang the string on the inside of the frame rail somewhere near the rear axle. Then hang it on the outside of your tire. Make marks on the ground where the plum bob meets. Do this on the driver and passenger side. The distance should be the same between the outside of tire and inside of the frame rail (or any similar combination) on both sides.

The panhard bar centers the axle under the truck which is important for handling. There are may other factors but as far as the bar and bracket are involved these comparisons are a good starting point. If it's off there needs to be an adjustment.

Did you get an alignment after lifting? If not that can be your problem.

 

[Madizmz]

if you decide to delete the bracket all together, then you should get the adjustable panhard bar. lifting or altering right height will shift or move the rear axle from centered to the right/passenger side... the drop bracket is designed to drop the bar back to a lower more "stock" location/geometry. i built my own custom drop bracket and then welded it to the stock mount, it works great and i dont have the issues you are speaking of.

the drop bracket is/was made for a reason, (not just to get you to spend more money either) and its a good reason. it will help with how the vehicle drives and behaves, but yes like the others have stated, simply just bolting it on allows to much "wiggle" room or room for movement(you can not get it tight enough to prevent movement) and that will have a much greater negative affect than even not having the drop bracket. so get that thing welded or buy the adjustable bar -if you ask me id do both, im gonna be buying the adjustable bar from toytec before long to fine-tune my rear axle. having you rear axle centered will prevent your rig from "dog trotting" as you drive down the road, and having the bar fixed and not able to shift side to side, will prevent your "tail wagging" over bumps and make your rig much more controllable especially in the corners.

I'm sure that was the intent of the guy that did the work for me. He had a 3rd gen as well and put this same setup on his truck. He said he didn't weld his and had no problems. I doubt it but whatever. I'll take a look at the adjustable bar as well, thanks. Edit- adjustable bar = 199.99! Ouch

and for heavens sakes man take care of that rust before it eats your rig alive.... hit that crap with the wire wheel and then shoot some epoxy paint over it before:rip:

Rust? Where? In Maryland that is a new style of paint and undercoating.

Is your front end higher than the rear? What setting are your 5100's at?

From the side does the truck seem to sit level? The rears will settle over time.

I would park on a flat dry surface, grab a piece of chalk and a plum bob. Hang the string on the inside of the frame rail somewhere near the rear axle. Then hang it on the outside of your tire. Make marks on the ground where the plum bob meets. Do this on the driver and passenger side. The distance should be the same between the outside of tire and inside of the frame rail (or any similar combination) on both sides.

The panhard bar centers the axle under the truck which is important for handling. There are may other factors but as far as the bar and bracket are involved these comparisons are a good starting point. If it's off there needs to be an adjustment.

Did you get an alignment after lifting? If not that can be your problem.

The front could be slightly higher but not much. I have the 5100's at the lowest setting.

Thanks for the info. on how to check the alignment of the rear axle, much appreciated.

I did get an alignment after the new shocks.

This forum is a great setup. It seems like there's a bunch of cool guys/gals willing to take time to help. I would buy you a beer or soda if I could but it seems like no one is near Md! Everytime I log in I find something new to twerk on.

 

[awthorn]

The swimming in the rear is the equivalent of a 3rd gen twerk.. I feel it most over speed bumps. But I might be :crazy:

 

[Bama_Runner]

One thing that I did that helped mine is building my own longer sway bar links. It helps to get the sway bar back to the angle it was before the lift.

Here is the how to...
Custom(ish) Extended Rear Sway Bar Links Write-up - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

 

[Madizmz]

One thing that I did that helped mine is building my own longer sway bar links. It helps to get the sway bar back to the angle it was before the lift.

Here is the how to...
Custom(ish) Extended Rear Sway Bar Links Write-up - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

Bama,

Thanks for the pics, I was actually admiring your wheel/tire set up today. I'd love to have something similar in black.

 

[Madizmz]

Updated, problem solved.

Had the bracket welded today. Also placed nuts on inside of bracket so when the bolts are tightened, they have something to stop against. Thanks to the members who replied for the suggestions.

Now for that pesky rust....

 

[shootmymime]

I was going to say you had some big black chick in the back twerking.