Rear Recovery Point Interest

[Inv4drZm]

We now have a Group Buy for these:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/group...ear-recovery-point-group-buy.html#post2610212

I would like to see how much interest you guys would have in participating in a potential group buy for a simple product my brother and I have been developing. We are making recovery points designed to bolt under your rear frame where the original equipment "tie down" points normally go. I say tie down because the OE Toyota brackets are only meant to secure your vehicle on a trailer, not for vehicle recovery when you get stuck. They also sell for ~$90 from Toyota. Ours will be a lot cheaper. The more people that sign up the lower the price, we are shooting for under $50 each, shipped.

We still need to design ours a bit narrower to be compatible with the OE tow hitches but once we get the design nailed down and a quote to get large quantities laser cut at a local shop, we will come up with price options and start a thread in the group buy section. These will be compatible with FJ's and 4th gen 4Runners, with or without the OE towing accessory. We might check if our design can be adapted to 5th gens and maybe Tacomas, but we will see. They can also be bolted to either side of the frame and will ship bare metal allowing you to paint them or get them powdercoated whatever color you want while keeping our lead times and prices low. With this design, you can easily throw on a full size shackle when your truck gets stuck and pull from any angle.

We are using laser cut A36 1/2" steel, bolted to the frame using two grade 10.9 bolts. The bolts themselves are rated to fail at 23,000 lbs of shear force for both combined. Technically we cannot "certify" these for a certain strength rating, but we have done FEA simulations on the part and keep in mind, we are using beefy 1/2" steel and increased strength bolts over OE hardware.

We have tested them on concrete. It didn't fail when my brother used his recovery strap to tug on my 4Runner with his FJ while I locked up my brakes and skidded a couple feet being pulled straight back and at a 90 degree angle from my truck multiple times. We didn't have a proper tug of war in the name of science, but we all know my AWD V8 would win.

If you guys reply here saying you would be interested, pending price or whatever, I can send you a PM notifying you when we kick off the group buy in the GB section. Just gauging interest to see how many I need to get a quote for.

The factory Toyota tie down:



Ours:

 

[Runn4est]

I like the look, it looks clean...and beefy. I may be interested to replace the rear one on the exhaust side. I haven't actually heard of anyone having trouble with the factory points, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Have you thought of beveling the eyelet? Looks like a pretty hard edge.

 

[TrueBlue]

I'm in.. I've used that tie down point to pull my buddies jeep out (go figure) a couple times and it doesn't seem as secure as I'd like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Anteupp]

Have you thought of beveling the eyelet? Looks like a pretty hard edge.

I was about to say the same thing, great work! looks perfect for anyone using a traditional metal shackle but not so much for the guys using soft shackles ect.

 

[Grip Driver]

Interested

 

[Folsom4Rnr]

Interested

Nice idea!

Please count me in as interested pending cost and fitment w/ tow hitch.

And I second the idea of beveling the edges of the loop!

 

[J-Roc]

Count me in!

 

[Inv4drZm]

We actually noticed that our pulling on concrete test flattened out our previous design. It was bend at more of an angle like the factory tie down to begin with, but my pictures show it to be pretty flat now. That, and we needed to round the corners and keep it narrow for the towing hitch like you guys mentioned.

We might change it to something like this. The only challenge is rounding the hole's corners for the soft shackle. Radius endmills are $80 each and we would have to interpolate them on the mill, and 1.25" diameter chamfer bits are similarly priced. Difficult to get an air belt sander in there so we might need to get a quote from a machine shop to laser this out of 1" steel and radius the edge for us. With this design though, we don't have to mess with bending 1/2" plates and a soft shackle can be used to pull straight back or from the side, and a conventional shackle can still be used straight back. It can't be bent coming down off a rock ledge or pulling straight back like our previous one did.

 

[AuSeeker]

We actually noticed that our pulling on concrete test flattened out our previous design. It was bend at more of an angle like the factory tie down to begin with, but my pictures show it to be pretty flat now. That, and we needed to round the corners and keep it narrow for the towing hitch like you guys mentioned.

We might change it to something like this. The only challenge is rounding the hole's corners for the soft shackle. Radius endmills are $80 each and we would have to interpolate them on the mill, and 1.25" diameter chamfer bits are similarly priced. Difficult to get an air belt sander in there so we might need to get a quote from a machine shop to laser this out of 1" steel and radius the edge for us. With this design though, we don't have to mess with bending 1/2" plates and a soft shackle can be used to pull straight back or from the side, and a conventional shackle can still be used straight back. It can't be bent coming down off a rock ledge or pulling straight back like our previous one did.

I sorta like the new design better, but you also need to radius the outside edge as well or it will cut into a soft shackle and with this design it may bend sideways when pulling from the side or possibly break at the bolt holes.

 

[Danger]

Interested

 

[Inv4drZm]

Back to one of our original designs. We gave it 3 bolt holes so you can bolt it to one side of your frame, and flip it around and bolt it using the other holes to the opposite side of the frame to keep clearance with the towing accessory and not have to make separate left and right parts. The full 90 degree bend will keep it from flattening when coming down off of a rock ledge hopefully. The only negative is that the bend will probably flatten when pulling hard from the side. Also, if someone wants to post a picture of their stock exhaust tailpipe/resonator in relation to the underside of the frame, that would help us. Recovery points may not have enough room on the passenger's side with the exhaust in the way on the 4Runners.

 

[Krayziekid]

I'd be interested if the price is right! Always looking to add to the recovery kit

 

[Inv4drZm]

Welded this ugly sucker up earlier tonight and tested it. Worked well as expected. Didn't flatten out like the first one.



So our design has come down to two final contenders; the 90 degree with the 3 bolt holes, or the gusseted U shaped one. Neither bent when pulling a few times straight back or sideways to the frame sliding my truck a few feet on concrete. Both can be used on either side of your frame with the towing accessory, and we can easily round all the corners with an air belt sander.

In the end, we think the 90 degree part will survive coming down off rock ledges better, is a bit stronger when pulling directly from the rear (for most recovery situations) and is strong enough to pull hard sideways (for rare times when you need to). We also don't have to cut out and weld gussets for every one. So 90 it is.

We just need to make a few tweaks to it's design for easier shackle use and get a quote to laser them. We think they might even fit the 5th gen 4Runner because they use the same part number for the OE tie down, but we will verify this with a coworker's 5th gen.

Possible limitations:

• Won't work with the stock exhaust system on the passenger's side on either gen 4Runner or FJ.
  
• 5th gen limited's have a lower rear bumper which will mostly cover up the recovery point.

 

[KidVermicious]

I like your latest iteration the best. Boxing/gusseting it like that adds a huge amount of strength.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I like your latest iteration the best. Boxing/gusseting it like that adds a huge amount of strength.

We can easily lengthen the gussets all the way to the back bolts if we designed it differently.

Do you think the gusseted one will be stronger than the 90 degree bent one pulling straight back or slamming down against a rock ledge? Would really like to test these by bashing them around on wheeling trips before full production. We're thinking the gusseted one's tip could bash inward wheras the 90 degree part would still stay vertical after getting smashed.

These are turning out to be way more difficult to design than we originally thought they would be. We're trying to keep it simple. Glad we are getting input.

 

[KidVermicious]

We can easily lengthen the gussets all the way to the back bolts if we designed it differently.

Do you think the gusseted one will be stronger than the 90 degree bent one pulling straight back or slamming down against a rock ledge? Would really like to test these by bashing them around on wheeling trips before full production. We're thinking the gusseted one's tip could bash inward wheras the 90 degree part would still stay vertical after getting smashed.

The 90 degree one will be stronger in absolute terms than the gusseted one in an absolutely straight inline pull, but I think the gusseted one is strong enough in an inline pull that you won't see any bending, and it's going to be much stronger in every other direction. And I don't think it would take much sideloading to bend the 90 degree version in ways you don't want it to bend, even in half inch steel.

In terms of rocks, I don't know exactly where on the frame these are going but I assume underneath and tucked inside of the rear bumper? Draw a line between the bottom of the tires and the farthest rear point on the bumper, if they're inside that line they should be pretty well protected.

 

[YetiX]

Interested pending final design.

 

[SAR_Runner]

very interested!

 

[LOSTR4]

I'll buy!

 

[MedicBob]

They both look interesting. I might get one. The gusseted one with no, or minimal, sharp edges would probably be a good choice.