Received this quote from my local shop today. Seem reasonable?

[absalom]

I totally missed the second part of your 1st post.

$604 +shipping

 

[D Farms]

Adjustable panhard bar isn't needed if you don't mind your truck doglegging down the road. A 1/2" shift along the hypotenuse makes a big difference in how the truck sits. My LC shocks never came to my gas tank ... weird. Perhaps you had the wrong part #?[/QUOTE]

have you ever checked the clearance of your drive shaft and gas tank under full flex, the drive shaft runs into the gas tank skid if you have long shocks like the lc shocks. also the adjustable panhard bar extends the axle over further into the gas tank in the fully flexed position. there are plenty of thread posts on this.

 

[absalom]

It's funny, Steve from SS went on some long yarn about rubbing ds's on gas tanks before I originally did my LC shocks/coils 3 years ago. Never had one issue in all the wheeling I did.

 

[KidVermicious]

It seems to me that too many people posting on this list don't realize no shop is in business to do favors. They aren't there to build the coolest trucks, they are there to make money. If they provide a quality service, they are entitled to try to make money. I get that we are driving 15-20 year old trucks not worth much money, but you can't blame the shop owner for that.

There is an old saying, and I do mean old, in the automotive world.

You wouldn't bring your own eggs and bacon to have the restaurant make you breakfast, why do you think it's ok to take away part of the shop's profit.

The internet age has changed things, and this is a much more accepted practice. But it is a false economy. More an more small shops just can't survive, so we ALL will be forced to visit the well capitalized shops and pay more for less. You can bet they won't allow you to bring your own parts in either.

Get's off soapbox.

:frusty:

I hear you. I wouldn't consider a blind markup on parts a legit part of a shop's income though, especially parts that are freely available at retail. Markup is fine for a retail store because that's what they do, they stock inventory and have it available when you need it, and the markup is how they make their money. If the shop isn't stocking those parts, they have no need to mark them up. They should get their income charging for the service they're providing, install labor. Hiding charges in markup on parts freely available at lower prices is a poor business practice IMO, and I would not do business with any shop that charged me more than retail for parts. In fact, the last time I had a shop do an install for me, they charged me under retail for the parts because they had a frequent buyer discount with the supplier.

I agree that bringing your own parts to a shop is hinky and a PITA for the shop, but not because it's robbing them of any sort of rightful income. If they didn't already have the parts on the shelf, there's no call for a markup. An honest shop should charge an honest price for the labor they're providing and that's it. Again IMO, of course - you or anybody else is obviously free to run your own shop your way. If you want guys to stop trying to bring in outside parts, stop overcharging for them.

Do they make them or just rebrand them?

For $1800 I don't think an OME lift is the best for your money.

Why not go with Toytech if you have that much cash. Seems like a much better use of your money.

I always thought that ARB made them, but I'm not sure...

ARB owns Old Man Emu/Dakar (and IPF, and Warn, and Thule, and fifty other companies I can't remember right now).

 

[98OzarksRunner]

If they didn't already have the parts on the shelf, there's no call for a markup. An honest shop should charge an honest price for the labor they're providing and that's it. Again IMO, of course - you or anybody else is obviously free to run your own shop your way. If you want guys to stop trying to bring in outside parts, stop overcharging for them.





ARB owns Old Man Emu/Dakar (and IPF, and Warn, and Thule, and fifty other companies I can't remember right now).

So what you're saying is if a business has to special order something for you they should just charge you their cost since they didn't have to stock it? If you have tile put down in your kitchen, the contractor should sell you the tile at his cost since he special ordered it, and just make his income on installation labor? If the local auto shop has to get a starter from the parts store to fix your car, they should sell it at their cost since they make their money on installation labor? The local tire shop should sell you the tires they had to special order for you at cost and make their money on the $10 per tire they charge for mount and balance? That's not how business works, at least businesses that last. That profit is not just money for nothing - there is cost involved - ordering, paperwork, paying the invoices, cost of money (interest), etc. They also have to cover things like warranty work and liability. Above all that, they need to make some profit to stay in business (beyond the labor charge).

Retail price on the OME springs is $177 (per ARB's website). Add ~$20 shipping, and you're at $200. If shipping is ~$30 (which it may well be), that's $210. If he's an ARB dealer, his markup is in the retail price; if he's not, to make profit (legitimate profit) he has to mark up whatever he pays for them (plus shipping). I don't see $210 as an unfair price. If he's not an ARB dealer, his supplier (probably an ARB dealer) might not give him a good price. He CAN find them at a decent price (Amazon has them for $163 with free shipping) but if the shop has to spend an hour hunting down the best price, they have to charge you for that hour - so that adds $60-80 (or whatever their labor charge is) back into the price (it all has to come from somewhere, and ultimately it has to come from the customer). If you can find someone to do the job cheaper, have them do it. That's free-market competition. But making profit on products you sell, whether you install them or not, is how businesses make money (so we are able to buy the products and services we want and need).

 

[jeremyc74]

An honest shop should charge an honest price for the labor they're providing and that's it.

I run a small business, and I'll explain why you're wrong here.

To start with, there IS labor in ordering parts. Someone has to research them and order them, then someone has to receive them when they arrive, and check them for damage, then someone has to put them on the shelf until the customer gets there, and log them somehow so everyone knows where they're going and they don't get lost. This process is basically the same whether it's a $1500 part, or a $5 part too, so don't get bent out of shape over a substantial markup on cheap parts. The labor involved is still the same.

Second, it costs money to buy these parts for the customer. When a shop orders parts or you, they're basically giving you a short term loan, from the time they order the parts to the time you pay for the job. (Unless they're charging a deposit up front of course). We all know there are costs involved in borrowing money. In most cases this is going to be a very short term, but customers cancel appointments all the time, sometimes temporarily, and sometimes completely.

And that brings us to another cost associated with the parts. Dealing with returning them if the customer doesn't show, or something doesn't fit right.

Now, if you show up with your own parts all those costs are on you instead of them, but so are the responsibilities. If something doesn't fit, it's on you. You're going to have to pay them the labor to figure that out, and then the labor to correct it. If they bought the wrong parts chances are they're going to eat that labor.

The bottom line is ordering parts isn't something you should expect a shop to do for free. There are legitimate costs and risks associated with it, and because of that there should also be a profit associated with it when things go right. There HAS to be to offset the losses when they don't, and when you're dealing with aftermarket automotive parts things go wrong all the time.

 

[KidVermicious]

So what you're saying is if a business has to special order something for you they should just charge you their cost since they didn't have to stock it? If you have tile put down in your kitchen, the contractor should sell you the tile at his cost since he special ordered it, and just make his income on installation labor? If the local auto shop has to get a starter from the parts store to fix your car, they should sell it at their cost since they make their money on installation labor? .

Exactly what I'm saying. It doesn't cost the tile contractor or auto garage any extra to get those, and so there should be no charge passed on to the customer. A tire shop is a different matter, because they are both a retail outlet and a service outlet. I don't have to have bought tires there to get tires installed there, and if I buy their tires I'm not required to have them install them too, I can take them anywhere I want. See the difference?

Look at it like this: if I order parts and bring them to a garage to have installed, that is no different than the garage ordering the parts to be installed themselves, in terms of time and effort expended by that garage to procure the parts (10 minutes on the phone to ARB or a local retailer is a pittance, and the mail is free). They haven't gone to any extra effort or supplied anything that their customer can't do themselves, why on earth would it be ethical to charge for "handling" of parts that it cost them nothing to handle? The customer is coming to the shop for the shop's specialized labor, not to get raped in the butthole on parts pricing. The shop provides labor and expertise, and should charge an appropriate amount for that expertise. If the shop can't stay alive billing the right amount for their labor, they should go out of business, not advertise an artifically low labor rate and make up the difference by overcharging ignorant customers for parts. That's not ethical, and any shop that wanted to do me like that would lose my business for life.

If you're running a shop and this hits close to home for you, then I apologize. But I think a shop that overcharges for parts in order to pad the bill is cheating their customers. They sure wouldn't have my business, and I'd steer others away from them too every chance I got. Word of mouth is a powerful thing.

 

[KidVermicious]

I run a small business, and I'll explain why you're wrong here.

To start with, there IS labor in ordering parts. Someone has to research them and order them, then someone has to receive them when they arrive, and check them for damage, then someone has to put them on the shelf until the customer gets there, and log them somehow so everyone knows where they're going and they don't get lost. This process is basically the same whether it's a $1500 part, or a $5 part too, so don't get bent out of shape over a substantial markup on cheap parts. The labor involved is still the same.

Second, it costs money to buy these parts for the customer. When a shop orders parts or you, they're basically giving you a short term loan, from the time they order the parts to the time you pay for the job. (Unless they're charging a deposit up front of course). We all know there are costs involved in borrowing money. In most cases this is going to be a very short term, but customers cancel appointments all the time, sometimes temporarily, and sometimes completely.

And that brings us to another cost associated with the parts. Dealing with returning them if the customer doesn't show, or something doesn't fit right.

Now, if you show up with your own parts all those costs are on you instead of them, but so are the responsibilities. If something doesn't fit, it's on you. You're going to have to pay them the labor to figure that out, and then the labor to correct it. If they bought the wrong parts chances are they're going to eat that labor.

The bottom line is ordering parts isn't something you should expect a shop to do for free. There are legitimate costs and risks associated with it, and because of that there should also be a profit associated with it when things go right. There HAS to be to offset the losses when they don't, and when you're dealing with aftermarket automotive parts things go wrong all the time.

Those things are all part of your overhead for running the shop though. Be honest and include them in your labor rate. Nickle-and-diming your customer by padding parts charges so you can advertise a lower labor rate isn't ethical, not unless you disclose up front that you're selling them the parts at higher than retail prices. If you tell the customer for example "2 hours of labor and $200 for parts" for install of a $100 part, that's lying (obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of thing air). If you tell the customer "200 hours of labor, $150 for parts, and $50 for parts handling", I'd have much less problem with it because the customer now knows it's actually 2 hours of labor plus a ridiculous overcharge on a $150 part, and they can choose to look for another shop that doesn't charge so much (for the very strenuous work of making a phone call and then letting the UPS man in the back door). But nobody does that, not that I've seen. They either charge a straight rate for parts, or they overcharge (and don't disclose). And if they don't disclose that X dollars of the parts charge is actually a handling fee, then their customer (like the OP) thinks that's the actual retail cost of the part. That's cheating, and I would never knowingly do business with an outfit that includes cheating their customer as part of their business model.

 

[jeremyc74]

Those things are all part of your overhead for running the shop though. Be honest and include them in your labor rate. Nickle-and-diming your customer by padding parts charges so you can advertise a lower labor rate isn't ethical, not unless you disclose up front that you're selling them the parts at higher than retail prices. If you tell the customer for example "2 hours of labor and $200 for parts" for install of a $100 part, that's lying (obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of thing air). If you tell the customer "200 hours of labor, $150 for parts, and $50 for parts handling", I'd have much less problem with it because the customer now knows it's actually 2 hours of labor plus a ridiculous overcharge on a $150 part, and they can choose to look for another shop that doesn't charge so much (for the very strenuous work of making a phone call and then letting the UPS man in the back door). But nobody does that, not that I've seen. They either charge a straight rate for parts, or they overcharge (and don't disclose). And if they don't disclose that X dollars of the parts charge is actually a handling fee, then their customer (like the OP) thinks that's the actual retail cost of the part. That's cheating, and I would never knowingly do business with an outfit that includes cheating their customer as part of their business model.

Why would I include the cost of ordering parts into my labor rate? That makes no sense at all. They're two different profit centers. The actual retail cost of the part is whatever I want it to be. I'm the one selling it! NO ONE is charging customers at cost for parts. NO ONE. They wouldn't be in business if they were.

If I do a quote for a customer they're more than welcome to question the costs, but the bottom line is that I'm in business to make money, and that includes making money off of reselling parts. If you don't like that go try to find a shop that will just give you the stuff. You won't find one. Everyone who runs a business understands these costs, and the only fair way to charge for them is marking up parts. You're more than welcome to do all the work yourself.

 

[KidVermicious]

The bottom line is ordering parts isn't something you should expect a shop to do for free. There are legitimate costs and risks associated with it, and because of that there should also be a profit associated with it when things go right. There HAS to be to offset the losses when they don't, and when you're dealing with aftermarket automotive parts things go wrong all the time.

I forgot to address this part specifically. I'm not expecting anything for free, I'm just expecting to be billed honestly. If the part costs $X and the labor to install costs $Y and the shop wants to charge $Z for ordering and handling the part, and they're upfront about it when they quote me itemized charges prior to doing the work, that's all on the up and up and I've got no quibble. Or if the shop charges a labor rate high enough to cover the parts handling and a straight retail price for the part, that's cool too. What I'm objecting to is the practice of overcharging for a part and not telling the customer they're doing it. That's completely unethical, and I'm pretty black and white on that stuff - if they're going to lie to me about how much they're charging and why, what else will they lie to me about? I'll take my business to a shop that charges me honestly, because they're much more likely to do the work honestly as well.

Again, not trying to point any fingers, and if you're running a business and my opinion is hurtful then I apologize for that. Maybe it will be helpful to you to know that there are customers out there explicitly avoiding business run as described? Or maybe not, whichever.

 

[jeremyc74]

I forgot to address this part specifically. I'm not expecting anything for free, I'm just expecting to be billed honestly. If the part costs $X and the labor to install costs $Y and the shop wants to charge $Z for ordering and handling the part, and they're upfront about it when they quote me itemized charges prior to doing the work, that's all on the up and up and I've got no quibble. Or if the shop charges a labor rate high enough to cover the parts handling and a straight retail price for the part, that's cool too. What I'm objecting to is the practice of overcharging for a part and not telling the customer they're doing it. That's completely unethical, and I'm pretty black and white on that stuff - if they're going to lie to me about how much they're charging and why, what else will they lie to me about? I'll take my business to a shop that charges me honestly, because they're much more likely to do the work honestly as well.

Again, not trying to point any fingers, and if you're running a business and my opinion is hurtful then I apologize for that. Maybe it will be helpful to you to know that there are customers out there explicitly avoiding business run as described? Or maybe not, whichever.

We're discussing a case where the customer has a solid quote up front and knows he can buy the parts cheaper on line. Not a case where a shop is slipping expensive parts in after the work has started. Two completely different scenarios.

 

[KidVermicious]

Why would I include the cost of ordering parts into my labor rate? That makes no sense at all. They're two different profit centers. The actual retail cost of the part is whatever I want it to be. I'm the one selling it! NO ONE is charging customers at cost for parts. NO ONE. They wouldn't be in business if they were.

Because it's overhead. And your last statement is factually incorrect - I've had a couple different install jobs done at commercial shops, and I've NEVER been charged over retail for the parts they ordered and installed. Not once.

In fact, the last time I had a shop order and install parts for, the shop got a discount on the parts in question because they were a high volume orderer and they charged me less because of it. I got the parts themselves at exactly the shop's cost, under retail. The only other item on the bill was the shop's labor rate. And they're a big shop - I'm not going to name drop because I happen to be working there now (I didn't at the time), but we're not talking some no-name back alley garage here. This is a major industry player, doing business exactly like you say NO ONE does, and being super profitable about it at that.

So yeah, if you're padding your customer's bills on parts because you think everyone else is doing it, you might wanna think again. There are still customers that value honesty in business practices, and if they know you're padding your bill, they're avoiding you and you're losing business. Something to think about, huh?

 

[98OzarksRunner]

Exactly what I'm saying. It doesn't cost the tile contractor or auto garage any extra to get those, and so there should be no charge passed on to the customer. A tire shop is a different matter, because they are both a retail outlet and a service outlet. I don't have to have bought tires there to get tires installed there, and if I buy their tires I'm not required to have them install them too, I can take them anywhere I want. See the difference?

Call up your local tile contractor and see if he'll work that deal for you. Tell them you want them to special order some tile but you're only willing to pay their cost, but you'll pay full price for installation. Since they're making money on the installation and not stocking the tile, it's only fair. I'm guessing they'll tell you that's not how their business works. Go to the Toyota dealer and tell their service department you are only willing to pay cost for the parts but you'll pay full for the labor. They make plenty of money selling cars so labor only for service work is only fair. They'll probably tell you that's now how their business works. (For that matter, tell Toyota you're willing to buy their new 4Runner but you're only willing to pay for the cost of materials, labor, engineering and other real costs - that's all [since that's only fair - those are the real costs and charging more than that is not fair] - they will probably suggest you contact Nissan.) Ask a contractor to build you a house and tell him you'll pay full labor but only his cost for materials. I'm guessing you won't find many contractors (still in business) who do that. I could go on and on - roofing contractors, HVAC contractors, etc. That's not how most auto shops work either. They are a retailer (sell parts) who does service and installs parts (he sells). That's why they buy parts at wholesale and mark them up. They have to make profit (and should) on everything that comes through their shop. If you don't like that, or like their price, you can go somewhere else. That's the free market.

Every business has costs and is in business to make profits. The gross profits (markup on parts) cover things like administrative costs (as jeremyc74 pointed out) and other overhead (light bills, tools, rent). And above all, a business is in business to make a profit. A shop may choose to make all its money on labor, but that would be the RARE shop (and they will probably stay a small struggling business since the owner doesn't understand much about business, though he may know a lot about fixing cars).

And that (and this conversation) is why most small business fail. The typical auto shop is started by a guy who loves what he does and figures he can make it on his own. He's a good mechanic and does good work. He charges fair prices for his labor and keeps busy. He really sees his business as a job - his wages are paid by the customer rather than an employer. Before long he finds out two things. First, he's always busy but can't make any money. That is mainly because he can only charge what the market will bear and it isn't enough to cover all the overhead he now has (that his employer paid before) - labor isn't enough. Second, he's a good mechanic but a lousy businessman, so he spends too much time doing business stuff (which he isn't good at) and not enough time fixing cars (which he is good at). If he's going to make it, he needs someone to do the business stuff so he can fix cars. But he can't cover the overhead now (with just labor charges). So how does he come up with enough to pay for the person to run the business part - profit on parts. It's just about that simple, and why shops mark up parts. And the reason this type of business usually doesn't make it is because the business owner doesn't see his business as a 'business' (retailer) but only as a source of labor. In other words, he's still an employee, working by the hour. It sounds like that is the real problem - you think the business should be in business just to provide labor and that profit on materials is a bad thing. That business model is a formula for failure.

 

[KidVermicious]

We're discussing a case where the customer has a solid quote up front and knows he can buy the parts cheaper on line. Not a case where a shop is slipping expensive parts in after the work has started. Two completely different scenarios.

He knows now, because posters here told him. He didn't know when he was provided the quote because the shop he went to didn't disclose it (or maybe they did? I haven't seen the work order they gave him). That's the part that you're missing, the part that I'm objecting to. If the part costs $X at retail and the shop tells the customer it costs $Y, they're lying to them. We're not quibbling over how much the shop wants to charge, that's entirely up to the shop. We're quibbling over how the shop wants to itemize those charges, and you appear to be defending the practice of lying to your customers. If that's not the case and we're talking past eachother, please let me know so we can stop fighting.

 

[KidVermicious]

Call up your local tile contractor and see if he'll work that deal for you. Tell them you want them to special order some carpet but you're only willing to pay their cost, but you'll pay full price for installation. Since they're making money on the installation and not stocking the carpet, it's only fair. I'm guessing they'll tell you that's not how their business works. Go to the Toyota dealer and tell their service department you are only willing to pay cost for the parts but you'll pay full for the labor. They make plenty of money selling cars so labor only for service work is only fair. They'll probably tell you that's now how their business works. (For that matter, tell Toyota you're willing to buy their new 4Runner but you're only willing to pay for the cost of materials, labor, engineering and other real costs - that's all [since that's only fair - those are the real costs and charging more than that is not fair] - they will probably suggest you contact Nissan.) Ask a contractor to build you a house and tell him you'll pay full labor but only his cost for materials. I'm guessing you won't find many contractors (still in business) who do that. I could go on and on - roofing contractors, HVAC contractors, etc. That's not how most auto shops work either. They are a retailer (sell parts) who does service and installs parts (he sells). That's why they buy parts at wholesale and mark them up. They have to make profit (and should) on everything that comes through their shop. If you don't like that, or like their price, you can go somewhere else. That's the free market.

You're completely off base. When my wife takes her car in to Toyota to get work done, she gets an itemized bill with 1) the parts cost (which is the same price I can buy them for at the parts desk down the hell), 2) the labor, billed in hours, and 3) shop fees (motor oil, grease, whatever). Costs are disclosed as their actual costs. When I had my roof done, the roofing company billed me the parts cost, the labor charges we approved prior to hiring them, and a materials disposal fee, all itemized. And they included their receipts from the roofing supply and the dumpster company to show they weren't padding the bill.

I don't know what world you live in that you think it's normal or desireable for businesses to cheat their customers. Please tell us the name of your business so we all can know to never do business with you, thanks.

 

[jeremyc74]

Because it's overhead. And your last statement is factually incorrect - I've had a couple different install jobs done at commercial shops, and I've NEVER been charged over retail for the parts they ordered and installed. Not once.

In fact, the last time I had a shop order and install parts for, the shop got a discount on the parts in question because they were a high volume orderer and they charged me less because of it. I got the parts themselves at exactly the shop's cost, under retail. The only other item on the bill was the shop's labor rate. And they're a big shop - I'm not going to name drop because I happen to be working there now (I didn't at the time), but we're not talking some no-name back alley garage here. This is a major industry player, doing business exactly like you say NO ONE does, and being super profitable about it at that.

So yeah, if you're padding your customer's bills on parts because you think everyone else is doing it, you might wanna think again. There are still customers that value honesty in business practices, and if they know you're padding your bill, they're avoiding you and you're losing business. Something to think about, huh?

I don't think you know what "overhead" means. Overhead is what you pay for rent, insurance, and utilities. It's the stuff that can't be billed separately for each job, but still comes off the bottom line. The costs of ordering parts can easily be billed separately for each job. It's not overhead in any way shape or form. It's a cost center (or profit center if you're doing it right).

If you think these shops aren't marking up parts, you REALLY don't understand how this works. The retail markup over wholesale is huge. Usually 100%. When a shop is a licenses distributor for a manufacturer they get the parts at wholesale, and can still mark them up substantially and not go above retail. If a shop is doing a big job for you, or wants you to feel like you're getting a sweet deal so you come back they can cut into that profit a little

I don't know how a shop can be more honest than giving you a quote for approval up front. It's not like they're not telling him what they're charging for the parts! For you to consider a shop honest they're going to be taking a loss on every part they buy!! :crazy:

 

[jeremyc74]

You're completely off base. When my wife takes her car in to Toyota to get work done, she gets an itemized bill with 1) the parts cost (which is the same price I can buy them for at the parts desk down the hell), .

And you think they're charging you the same price they're paying for the parts?!?! :sadwave:

When you buy parts at the counter, you're paying retail. You can go buy those exact same parts online for less money ALL DAY LONG! The parts desk is making a PILE of money off you, just like the shop is!!! :frisky:

 

[jeremyc74]

He knows now, because posters here told him. He didn't know when he was provided the quote because the shop he went to didn't disclose it (or maybe they did? I haven't seen the work order they gave him). That's the part that you're missing, the part that I'm objecting to. If the part costs $X at retail and the shop tells the customer it costs $Y, they're lying to them. We're not quibbling over how much the shop wants to charge, that's entirely up to the shop. We're quibbling over how the shop wants to itemize those charges, and you appear to be defending the practice of lying to your customers. If that's not the case and we're talking past eachother, please let me know so we can stop fighting.

They're telling him what they are going to charge for the parts. That has nothing to do with what the retail price is. They can charge whatever the hell they want to as long as they're up front about it, and they were. A shop isn't obligated to go out and find out how much you can buy parts for off the internet and then charge you the same price. That would be absurd.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

You're completely off base. When my wife takes her car in to Toyota to get work done, she gets an itemized bill with 1) the parts cost (which is the same price I can buy them for at the parts desk down the hell), 2) the labor, billed in hours, and 3) shop fees (motor oil, grease, whatever). Costs are disclosed as their actual costs. When I had my roof done, the roofing company billed me the parts cost, the labor charges we approved prior to hiring them, and a materials disposal fee, all itemized. And they included their receipts from the roofing supply and the dumpster company to show they weren't padding the bill.

And when they list those parts and labor prices they are marked-up retail prices. They are not the dealer's (or the roofing company's) actual cost. Do you think the prices they list are what THEY pay for those parts? Do you think the labor charge they show is what THEY actually pay the technician? If so, you really don't understand this at all! (And if the roofing company charged you exactly what they paid for materials they probably aren't a very profitable [i.e. viable] business). They are making profit on the parts, the labor (and probably the disposal fee - do you think EVERY penny you pay for that fee is what it actually costs to dispose of your particular parts?), just as the OP's shop is.

He knows now, because posters here told him. He didn't know when he was provided the quote because the shop he went to didn't disclose it (or maybe they did? I haven't seen the work order they gave him). That's the part that you're missing, the part that I'm objecting to. If the part costs $X at retail and the shop tells the customer it costs $Y, they're lying to them. We're not quibbling over how much the shop wants to charge, that's entirely up to the shop. We're quibbling over how the shop wants to itemize those charges, and you appear to be defending the practice of lying to your customers. If that's not the case and we're talking past each other, please let me know so we can stop fighting.

So how did the shop lie to him or cheat him? The shop told the OP what THEY charge for those parts. The MSRP is just that 'a suggested retail price' - any given merchant is free to charge whatever they want for any product. In fact, it is illegal for a manufacturer (in most cases) to tell a retailer what they have to charge (anti-trust laws and what not). What any given merchant charges for any given product is up to them and the customer can buy it or not. If the price tag on the item in the store says $100 and when you get to the counter they charge you $150, that's dishonest. If the price tag says $100 but the MSRP is $90, that's not dishonest - that's what this retailer charges. If you don't like the price, go down the street and buy it cheaper. That's why we shop around, and why the OP asked us on here if it was a good price. For me, it wouldn't be, but he needs to have it installed and I can do it myself. Different situations.

I have been looking for a car the last couple of months. I made an offer on one and we were just too far apart. I have contacted a couple of dealers online about their price and they asked what I would give. I told them what I would give, and pointed out that a similar car sold here last month for $XXXXX and there are two more listed in another town for $XXXXX. They said have no control over what other dealers charge, but they need $YYYYY. I said, that's fine - I'll keep looking. I don't know what this dealer had to pay for the car, how much work they had to put into it, what their overhead costs are, etc. He just knows that he needs a certain amount for that car. If others have it cheaper, customers can go to the others. That's how the free market works. There is not a 'maximum legal price' for most things - it's what a given merchant needs/wants to make on a product. It might be immoral to charge exorbitant prices for some things (like price gouging in a gas shortage after a hurricane), but most of the time it's up to the market (customer) to decide if they want to pay that price. If the OP doesn't like the price (and he may not given we have told him he could buy the parts cheaper elsewhere) the OP can go elsewhere. If the OP needs to have this shop install them, and wants it done, then he'll pay the asking price.

 

[gamefreakgc]

fftopic:

I didn't respond from my post since I didn't want to derail ECT_Gumby's thread. Looks like that happened anyway. How about we go back to helping him price his install and less about hypothetical price increases for the repair shops we don't own?