Removed my 2"/1" spacer lift, and why

[Joewildlife]

I installed a 1" thick spacer on my front coils to try to level my 2012 4Runner, a 2" lift, and ended up chasing it with an 1" spacer/1" lift on the rear to get it to look right. I took it to a master of alignments in my area, a real pro. The guy does an alignment and tells me he maxed out the caster adjustments but with the front lift, I only had just over one degree of caster when factory is about 3 degrees if I heard him correctly. The only way to get the caster right with a lift is to put in aftermarket control arms with more caster built in. This is absolutely the best alignment shop in the region...yet he will never install a spacer lift because he knows it messes up the alignment and folks are never happy. He was right.

The truck drove terrible...wandered on the road needing constant steering wheel input to keep in a straight line.

3 hours later and the four spacers are gone. I know I got my caster back by the way it drives. It probably needs another alignment. I felt I learned the hard way.

Should I have known that a front spacer lift screws up the driveability of the 4Runner, or is this just not talked about? Do you 4Runner pros on here do super expensive lifts with new control arms to keep your 4Runners driving right? Only ignorant rookies like me do spacer lifts alone?? Go ahead, flame away.... :uzi:

 

[Humble Leader]

Do you 4Runner pros on here do super expensive lifts with new control arms to keep your 4Runners driving right? Only ignorant rookies like me do spacer lifts alone?? Go ahead, flame away.... :uzi:

basically yes lol. spacer lifts are a more cost effective way of getting a lift rather than spending $$$ on an entire set up, but there are tradeoffs. anytime you change the geometry of an automobile's components you need to be mindful. stresses are applied differently to the components, the components engineers designed to work a certain way with OEM equipment under OEM spec. on road generally a spacer lift installed properly will be ok. they aren't really that great for heavy offroad use.

I read more about folks who do rear spacer lifts rather than front spacers and that's probably why

 

[Blackwatch]

I have a 1/2" spacer ready to go in soon which will lift it one inch. A member on here recommended this and said he did it a few times without issues. Looking forward to some comments...

 

[Joewildlife]

My alignment guy said that if I wanted 1" in the front to level it up, to use Bilsteins on the first notch, and it wouldn't mess up caster as much as the 2" lift in the front did. The 1" extra in the rear adds to the reduced caster in the front as well. I didn't need lift in the rear, I just wanted to level it out after all. Probably should have used a 1/2" front spacer but honestly I don't know how they bolt up...seems like 1" thick spacer is the smallest you can use...unless the 1/2" spacer goes on top of the existing 3 bolts.

I've since read that caster is reduced .8 degrees for each 1" of front lift. 1" rear lift reduces front caster by .5 degrees. (.8*2)+.5 = 2.1 degrees lost caster in my case, which sounds right in line with the numbers he gave me. He seemed to indicate I wouldn't notice a .8 degree loss from stock. But I sure noticed a 2.1

Joe

 

[JaSC1]

Yes, new UCAs, new suspension.

'Buy once, cry once'. No flame intended

 

[Grape Ape]

1" inch spacer in the front of my TRDP, 70K miles, 295's on 17x9 -38s, no issues with stock suspension and components

 

[fkheath]

I installed a 1" thick spacer on my front coils to try to level my 2012 4Runner, a 2" lift, and ended up chasing it with an 1" spacer/1" lift on the rear to get it to look right. I took it to a master of alignments in my area, a real pro. The guy does an alignment and tells me he maxed out the caster adjustments but with the front lift, I only had just over one degree of caster when factory is about 3 degrees if I heard him correctly. The only way to get the caster right with a lift is to put in aftermarket control arms with more caster built in. This is absolutely the best alignment shop in the region...yet he will never install a spacer lift because he knows it messes up the alignment and folks are never happy. He was right.

The truck drove terrible...wandered on the road needing constant steering wheel input to keep in a straight line.

3 hours later and the four spacers are gone. I know I got my caster back by the way it drives. It probably needs another alignment. I felt I learned the hard way.

Should I have known that a front spacer lift screws up the driveability of the 4Runner, or is this just not talked about? Do you 4Runner pros on here do super expensive lifts with new control arms to keep your 4Runners driving right? Only ignorant rookies like me do spacer lifts alone?? Go ahead, flame away.... :uzi:

Maybe there is a difference in years (mine is a 2018 SR5 premium) but I installed the Rough Country leveling kit, 1" spacer in front and rear for about 2.5"/1" lift. Dealer had no problem in getting the alignment in spec. I have no driving issues you describe.

The front Rough Country spacers go on top of the strut, not on top of the spring. Perhaps that makes a difference.

 

[honda250xtitan]

get a better alignment guy. 2" of lift is fine on stock uppers.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

To be fair, even suspension lifts sometimes make use of stock UCA’s. I typically only see control arms included in long travel kits.


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[Jetboy]

The way you lift has no effect on alignment vs any other lift. The higher you go the lower the caster will be all else equal. This is inherent in the geometry of unequal length double control arm suspension. It doesn't matter if it's a lift spacer or a $$$ coilover. As you go up you lose caster and you induce negative camber. Both use the same adjustment and the negative camber also takes away from the range of adjustment to caster.

All 4runners are a little different. The general consensus is somewhere between 1 and 2 inches of front lift is where you can no longer get a good alignment. My 4R would still see about 4* caster at 1" lift. By 2.5" lift it needed upper control arms. If you're going over 2" you really need to get UCAs.

And fwiw - the lift makes no difference in tire fitment. If the tires fit with a lift, they also fit at stock height.

 

[Pedro367]

The way you lift has no effect on alignment vs any other lift. The higher you go the lower the caster will be all else equal. This is inherent in the geometry of unequal length double control arm suspension. It doesn't matter if it's a lift spacer or a $$$ coilover. As you go up you lose caster and you induce negative camber. Both use the same adjustment and the negative camber also takes away from the range of adjustment to caster.

All 4runners are a little different. The general consensus is somewhere between 1 and 2 inches of front lift is where you can no longer get a good alignment. My 4R would still see about 4* caster at 1" lift. By 2.5" lift it needed upper control arms. If you're going over 2" you really need to get UCAs.

And fwiw - the lift makes no difference in tire fitment. If the tires fit with a lift, they also fit at stock height.

Bingo. I was able to get into spec with just a 1" front level and had no issues. Decided to just do UCA's when I went to 2" and do it right. Rubbing is going to happen no matter what unless you set caster to 0. Toyota didn't design these well to fit bigger tires easily between the fender liner, mud flaps, body mount, and front bumper. My 265s even rub like crazy now that I put 1.5" wheel spacers on my TRD Pro wheels even with 2" of lift.

 

[patkelly4370]

The way you lift has no effect on alignment vs any other lift. The higher you go the lower the caster will be all else equal. This is inherent in the geometry of unequal length double control arm suspension. It doesn't matter if it's a lift spacer or a $$$ coilover. As you go up you lose caster and you induce negative camber. Both use the same adjustment and the negative camber also takes away from the range of adjustment to caster.



All 4runners are a little different. The general consensus is somewhere between 1 and 2 inches of front lift is where you can no longer get a good alignment. My 4R would still see about 4* caster at 1" lift. By 2.5" lift it needed upper control arms. If you're going over 2" you really need to get UCAs.



And fwiw - the lift makes no difference in tire fitment. If the tires fit with a lift, they also fit at stock height.

This.
I'm going through the same thing as the OP, just winding down the path a bit differently.
Mine already had the spacers and larger tires when I bought it.
Same "twitchyness" at highway speeds.
Couldn't get anymore (none?) caster, so ordered UCAs with increased caster 'built in'.
While waiting on UCAs I came across a deal on a new Eibach 2.0 Pro Truck lift.
I'm hoping for the same, or slightly less, lift as the spacers. But a bit more useable suspension travel.
Side path...
To make installation easier we had a concrete slab poured so I won't have to work in dirt/rocks on cardboard anymore. Now erecting carport so I don't sizzle on the concrete in the AZ summer.

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[Turn_down]

Not a spacer lift, but I recently had the Eibach Pro Stage 1 lift installed on my 2011 SR5. 2.75 f / 1 r. Stock UCA's. Caster is to factory spec. Drove it from Dallas to Austin and back. Zero issues doing 80 down the highway. I don't see how that would be any different from a spacer lift as far as alignment goes.

 

[USStrongman]

When you change one angle, you change them all. Remember too, not every single truck that Toyota makes will spec out the same. Some put in 3" spacers, have an alignment and have zero issues. Others like you, not so much. The industry works within "tolerances" and some of those tolerances will fall on either side of expectable.

 

[Joewildlife]

My truck does have 130K on it...any kind of suspension wear just amplifies any alignment issue.

I got it aligned again and now it drives great.

Joe

 

[hoppyjr]

I just picked up a new 2022 that had a dealer installed 3/2 Revtek lift and it seems just fine. Even on the Revtek website it shows that it’s designed to maintain stock alignment specs.

Maybe I’m missing something.

 

[patkelly4370]

My 17 4runner had 1½" front and 1" rear spacers. It too could not get caster in spec and was "twitchy" at highway speeds.
Recently removed those spacers and installed Eibach Pro Truck 2.0 suspension front and rear. Also JBL upper control arms with 'exrta' caster. And a couple of spacers, lol. On the left side to compensate for the 4runner lean. ¼" left rear and ½" left front.
Ride height is the same as the spacers. Handling is much nicer as the caster is now in spec.
Added CBI aluminum skid plates at the same time.

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[MJCIII]

I have a 1/2" spacer ready to go in soon which will lift it one inch. A member on here recommended this and said he did it a few times without issues. Looking forward to some comments...

I have a 2.5/1.5 spacer lift, only do minimal offroad due to the fact that CT sucks for offroading. I have had it in for about a year and have had zero issues with it so far. I do plan on aftermarket UCA's for better alignment and not being maxed out but other than that its good.