Request to create a new section has been submitted

[BrianSD_42]

Hello,

This post is an FYI that I have requested a new forum section be created. Will it go anywhere? Maybe. Maybe not.

There certainly is demand. What do you guys think?

/Politics/

For years until recently people discussed news items and stuff that could be construed as politics in /Off-Topic/.

In the recent months the mod team in Off-Topic has been enforcing a no politics rule of any kind. No jokes, no memes, no commentary, nothing. Suspensions have been given out for those violating the hard line in the sand.

This is a pretty big curtail on freedom of speech and frankly in 2016 nearly anything can be considered political.

Many forum members like to joke amongst each other about politics and share news articles.

Under the current rules nearly all news discussion is now banned in off topic. How is that a free exchange of ideas? I know there are other forums out there but many of these guys would prefer to discuss some of these things with their fellow Toyota owners.

My request is that if off topic is to be an area free of anything political (again this is basically all current events) then create a /Politics/ section and be done with it.

Thank you

Brian

 

[Koko4]

You've got my vote!

 

[Yukon4Runner]

They could add a second click to get to the forum with something like:

Avast ye matey! Ye are entering a no whiner zone! Ye must agree there is in fact no constitutional right to be not offended.

Turn back ye snowflakes!

 

[stphnman20]

Give me a few beers and i'll talk politics.

 

[Bodie the Dog]

This stuff does affect us, so should be discussed

I hate that term, "politics." It's so subjective and generally used in a dismissive, "your opinion doesn't count" kind of way. Some of us think this crap is important, and if we can't discuss it with fellow adults, than who with? Our kids?

There are currently three bills going through the process to become law which will sell off large portions of the National Parks, Monuments, and Forests. Is this not something we can discuss on an outdoor-oriented board?

Yes, there will be people who RANT IN ALL CAPS! But I view this place as a campsite with multiple campfires. If you don't like the conversation around one fire, go walk over to another. No need to get triggered.

 

[T4R2014]

You have my support. The off topic section has been ruined and I'd like to have it back to the way it used to be.

Let's make off topic great again.

 

[1engineer]

It has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with starting flame wars. Every political post pisses someone off. That is truth. In addition to that [MENTION=5653]admin[/MENTION] knows that there have actually been real threats to people who posted about certain politicians. Sure, there are three or four of you can discuss it rationally and the others just talk trash and bluster.
Also it would still have to be moderated or else it would just turn into a spam forum.

 

[BrianSD_42]

It has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with starting flame wars.

I disagree. Since the rules clearly being enforced in /Off-Topic/ are now strictly no politics (as stated by you, multiple times) then it absolutely has to do with politics and not flame wars.

There has always been rules against flame wars and trolling but it was only in 2016 that Mods in off topic started explicitly banning politics.

Since nearly all news is political you have effectively banned discussing current events. Maybe the new section should be called /News & Politics/.

 

[1engineer]

I disagree. Since the rules clearly being enforced in /Off-Topic/ are now strictly no politics (as stated by you, multiple times) then it absolutely has to do with politics and not flame wars.

There has always been rules against flame wars and trolling but it was only in 2016 that Mods in off topic started explicitly banning politics.

Since nearly all news is political you have effectively banned discussing current events. Maybe the new section should be called /News & Politics/.

Do you know who complained to the mods the most about the political comments??? The guys who were posting in the threads!!! Dude, I gave the half dozen or so who really want to say the same crap about the same topics several chances. I gave warnings when they should have been banned. It didn't work. One guy threatened another to make a visit to their house with a gun! All over a political comment! You can say what you want but, contrary to popular belief, politics is not the only current events or news out there. Kids got killed on a school bus. The Dow is at an all time high. Google EMDRIVE if you want your mind to be blown. All those things could be discussed but no, the same old tired guys want to bash Clinton or Trump. Newsflash: There is more to the world than politics.

Again, there are hundreds of political forums out there that focus solely on politics. Go there! Please! And before you make the argument that I am running off members who are customers of our sponsors, you have maybe 10 guys who think like you. You have hundreds that come here to get AWAY from politics and talk about modding 4Runners!

Political comments ALWAYS piss someone off! How do they respond? With a crap comment of their own! You see, most people can't grasp the difference between the content of a post and the poster themselves so instead of attacking the content they attack the poster.

Also this is not just my idea. Ask the other mods. Ask [MENTION=5653]admin[/MENTION]. Religion and politics are trouble.

Personally, I would love to discuss politics with some of you guys and guess what... I do. Through pm's because in a pm you can't just be a smart ass with a one line insult, you actually have to know something.

If you truly want to discuss politics Brian, pm me. I don't care which side you are on even! I'll take the opposite just for stimulating conversation. Pretty sure you won't do that though because you really don't want to seriously talk about politics. You would rather just make fun of others right?

 

[-JD-]

Do you know who complained to the mods the most about the political comments??? The guys who were posting in the threads!!! Dude, I gave the half dozen or so who really want to say the same crap about the same topics several chances. I gave warnings when they should have been banned. It didn't work. One guy threatened another to make a visit to their house with a gun! All over a political comment! You can say what you want but, contrary to popular belief, politics is not the only current events or news out there. Kids got killed on a school bus. The Dow is at an all time high. Google EMDRIVE if you want your mind to be blown. All those things could be discussed but no, the same old tired guys want to bash Clinton or Trump. Newsflash: There is more to the world than politics.

Again, there are hundreds of political forums out there that focus solely on politics. Go there! Please! And before you make the argument that I am running off members who are customers of our sponsors, you have maybe 10 guys who think like you. You have hundreds that come here to get AWAY from politics and talk about modding 4Runners!

Political comments ALWAYS piss someone off! How do they respond? With a crap comment of their own! You see, most people can't grasp the difference between the content of a post and the poster themselves so instead of attacking the content they attack the poster.

Also this is not just my idea. Ask the other mods. Ask [MENTION=5653]admin[/MENTION]. Religion and politics are trouble.

Personally, I would love to discuss politics with some of you guys and guess what... I do. Through pm's because in a pm you can't just be a smart ass with a one line insult, you actually have to know something.

If you truly want to discuss politics Brian, pm me. I don't care which side you are on even! I'll take the opposite just for stimulating conversation. Pretty sure you won't do that though because you really don't want to seriously talk about politics. You would rather just make fun of others right?

Was discussing the EM drive in the thread you locked. As for the rest of it, I politely disagree.

I don't see what the big deal is about a political section nor the threads made up until this point. No one expects you to be responsible for the content of others posts. Nor do I think you are under any legal obligation to maintain the safety of the people who visit this website. Why choose to take on that responsibility.

 

[BrianSD_42]

:hand:

What isn't clear to me is why it would be a problem to have a section where talking about politics and news is allowed.

The history here is that you (Greg) took over modding Off-Topic in 2016 and several months ago instituted a hard ban (for reasons stated above) on mentioning anything political, even a snarky comment.

Before 2016 discussing these things was not banned. HOWEVER DID THE FORUM SURVIVE? The answer is obvious. It survived just fine over the last ten plus years without a ban on these subjects. You don't like getting PMs from whiners. I get it. But that has nothing to do with my request for a new section, where you will not be the mod and therefore it won't be your problem.

Pretty sure you won't do that though because you really don't want to seriously talk about politics. You would rather just make fun of others right?

The reason why I have not PMd you to discuss politics is because PMing someone is a terrible medium for a conversation. If I had something to say that truly warranted your consult or attention I definitely would have contacted you. Generally I don't personally pm anyone here to discuss much of anything. I prefer open posts with links and the exchange of ideas in the open.

 

[ndcent]

I would welcome a bias free moderated politics forum. Refreshing.

 

[DZNUTS]

Do you know who complained to the mods the most about the political comments??? The guys who were posting in the threads!!! Dude, I gave the half dozen or so who really want to say the same crap about the same topics several chances. I gave warnings when they should have been banned. It didn't work. One guy threatened another to make a visit to their house with a gun! All over a political comment! You can say what you want but, contrary to popular belief, politics is not the only current events or news out there. Kids got killed on a school bus. The Dow is at an all time high. Google EMDRIVE if you want your mind to be blown. All those things could be discussed but no, the same old tired guys want to bash Clinton or Trump. Newsflash: There is more to the world than politics.

Again, there are hundreds of political forums out there that focus solely on politics. Go there! Please! And before you make the argument that I am running off members who are customers of our sponsors, you have maybe 10 guys who think like you. You have hundreds that come here to get AWAY from politics and talk about modding 4Runners!

Political comments ALWAYS piss someone off! How do they respond? With a crap comment of their own! You see, most people can't grasp the difference between the content of a post and the poster themselves so instead of attacking the content they attack the poster.

Also this is not just my idea. Ask the other mods. Ask [MENTION=5653]admin[/MENTION]. Religion and politics are trouble.

Personally, I would love to discuss politics with some of you guys and guess what... I do. Through pm's because in a pm you can't just be a smart ass with a one line insult, you actually have to know something.

If you truly want to discuss politics Brian, pm me. I don't care which side you are on even! I'll take the opposite just for stimulating conversation. Pretty sure you won't do that though because you really don't want to seriously talk about politics. You would rather just make fun of others right?

I agree with this sentiment. While I have not been active in any political threads, we log on to this forum for the sole purpose of either sharing or obtaining information that is some how car/truck/SUV related. If one wishes to discuss politics, there a plenty of venues for that conversation.

Me personally, I'm much happier not seeing any political discourse when I'm looking for vehicle related information. I have deliberately not signed up on some forums because they do discuss politics.

What's wrong with keeping a 4Runner forum, a 4Runner forum?

 

[-JD-]

This is a 4Runner forum. Hence the "topic" here is 4runners. This particular section is titled "off-topic", meaning non 4Runner related.

What's wrong with sticking to the on topic discussions if that's what you're here for?

 

[Yukon4Runner]

See, this is why we can't have nice things.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I agree with this sentiment. While I have not been active in any political threads, we log on to this forum for the sole purpose of either sharing or obtaining information that is some how car/truck/SUV related. If one wishes to discuss politics, there a plenty of venues for that conversation.

Me personally, I'm much happier not seeing any political discourse when I'm looking for vehicle related information. I have deliberately not signed up on some forums because they do discuss politics.

What's wrong with keeping a 4Runner forum, a 4Runner forum?

Then why even have off topic at all? This was not an issue for years and years until just recently.

 

[1engineer]

Then why even have off topic at all?

Did you not read my post man?
Bicycles
Motorcycles
Houses
Physics
Camping
Fishing
Guns
Hunting
Family
City living
Phones
Computers
Dogs
Cats
Fish
Livestock
Pottery
Model Trains
Toys
Beer
Money
Social Security
Law
Climate Change
Demographics
....

Politics and religion are a part of society. Not all encompassing as the news would suggest.

I have been thinking about starting a thread on media bias. How could I do that without bringing politics into it you ask? Glad you asked. Media bias has absolutely nothing to do with politics and everything to do with money. Everything. We could have a 100 page thread if people truly wanted to talk about the truth in media and how headlines are framed for sensationalism and bias. But people don't care about discussing the real problem right? It's easier to just blame and talk crap about the other sides politicians. It's all about the money though.

You want meaningful off topic discussion? There you go.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Did you not read my post man?

It's pretty obvious I was responding to DZNUTS

Dogs
Cats
Fish
Livestock
Pottery
Model Trains
...
...
Social Security
Law
Climate Change
Demographics

Not sure why you are listing obviously political topics as part of your post. [Social Security, Law, Climate Change, Demographics]

You want meaningful off topic discussion? There you go

How kind of our benevolent mods to determine for us what is considered a meaningful off topic discussion. We are so lucky that higher powers are here to decide what we should think and how we should speak.

Media bias has absolutely nothing to do with politics and everything to do with money. Everything

This sentence alone explains so much. YOU decide what is political. Media Bias is not political because YOU can justify logically to yourself. That does not mean that Media Bias is actually a non political subject.

I don't mean to be insulting, please understand that I am just pointing out there are serious flaws (in my opinion) to your reasoning. Politics is about more than just the two major parties and respective candidates. If you take a political science class trust me Media Bias will definitely be discussed.

 

[Thefishguy77]

So you stated the people complaining were also the people posting in the forums. But in a separate incident you stated they the people complaining were not even posting in the threads. So is it both? Is it neither? Is it just what ever the mod wants to state at the time?

Climate change really? Completely political.
Law.?I pointed out a law and got a warning for it. So again really? It sounds more like your not up to the job. We know the pay sucks no argument there. Also off topic would be one of the harder aspects to be a mod in. But you essentially created a safe space for a few that shut down the majority.

Even in the dedicated truck forums there are post to "incite a flame war". When someone post what tires fit with this lift? Or other stupid questions that get asked at least 10 times a week. Almost always there is at least one reply something like this "Did you even try to search?" Then more people pile on and such. I have even seen you post in the minimum post thread stating something to the extent and it's a brutalized paraphrase here but, we have the posts count in place so people don't just come up and start a new thread asking the same old question in a new thread. I'm not saying that's an inappropriate response but it's providing a starting point where others will come and chime in bashing the person asking the new posters question. Would that not be a flame war?

Let there be a politics section. Make it so anyone who want to enter it has to message a mod and inform the mod that they understand that it is a non PC zone. And they are taking responsibility for the fact that they may get offended by what the see. And it's up to them to remove themselves from the thread. Not ask to get the thread banned because they are offended.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1engineer]

Climate change is not political. It's climate. Now, politicians make it political but the true discussion about climate change is about carbon dioxide, radiative forcing, sunspots and the like.

Laws are just that... laws. Sure, politicians came up with them but laws, like speeding or trespassing, are not political. They are laws.

Brian, you guys are trying to read too much into this. I said I (me) was thinking about starting a thread on media bias. I did not say YOU need to talk about it or anyone else.

The truth is you can make anything political. Any subject. The truth is you can also make those same subjects non political by discussing the topics themselves.

Good luck man.