Revo's or Destination AT's

[Even Steven]

What do you guys think of the Revo\'s in the snow? I live in Colorado and will need a A/T tire that is good in the snow.

From my experience, the Revos are not that impressive in snow. They are definitely better than the stock Dunlops, but if snow traction is a big priority, then there are better choices.

I also dont buy into the snowflake-on-a-mountain symbol thing either. I understand that tires are tested to earn that snow rating, but it just does not jive with my own real world experiences. I live in the snow belt (New York), so snow traction is important to me. The main reason I chose Discoverer ATR is because of their snow traction capabilities. One of my 4Runner friends used them one winter and I went offroading in snow with him on several occasions. He seemed to have better traction than even one of the other 4Runners with the BFG AT KO, which does have the snowflake-on-a-mountain symbol. Thats why the symbol doesnt hold much value with me.

Keep in mind that there are many different types of snow conditions. Maybe some tires are better in wet snow than dry snow and vice versa. All I am saying is that in my experiences, the Discoverer ATR is one of the best non-snow tires around.

 

[Camprunner]

You may wan't to look at the Genral Grabber AT/2 ......... I hear that they are great in the snow.

As for BFG A/T's they are a great tire but they just ride to hard for me. (Maybe it's the three ply sidewall??)

 

[Thai]

Unfortunately, the snowflake symbol is the only unbias criteria that you can use. As many of you found out, TireRack's customer reviews are fairly inaccurate.

 

[Even Steven]

Unfortunately, the snowflake symbol is the only unbias criteria that you can use. As many of you found out, TireRack\'s customer reviews are fairly inaccurate.

If I had no personal experience of different tires on similar vehicles (4Runners) in the same snow conditions, then I would probably put more faith in that snowflake symbol.

Fortunately for me, I do have that real world experience, so I feel perfectly comfortable making my decisions based upon my own real world experience and knowledge.

Thai, you may not have a lot of snow experience, but you do seem to have quite a bit of offroad experience in dry conditions. If you wheeled your G with BFG KOs, Revos, and Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armors in the same conditions over the years, would you come to your own conclusions on which tire performs best in which conditions or terrain? Now what if those tires had the equivalent of the snowflake symbol for dirt conditions instead of snow, and the Goodyear was the only tire that earned the symbol, but you knew from experience that both the Revo and BFG were actually better performers in the dirt? Would you put much faith in the symbol?

That is where I am coming from.

 

[Camprunner]

The best tire results come from "You" and over time running different tires and what works.

I think this site has bin a big help as well as many of you crazy cats have posted what works and what does not.

There is no perfect tire some are better in snow but stink on dry roads some are good in the rain but may ride like poo some are quiet but stink in the rain.

Look at where you are going to drive and think of the worst conditions you will drive in and base the tire on that. I find I have to accept the fact that real quiet and good riding tires are usually not that great in the snow and that just does not work for me but it may be ok for someone ells.

Just one more point some of the best tires I have had had names most people have never herd of so if someone says hay you may wan't to try this tire and save a few $$ you never know it my be one heck of a great tire.

 

[Falls]

I agree with camp about the harder ride of the BFG , but it is a strong tire and although its a harder ride they are not bad at all and tough as hell.

As far as the Revo in the snow question , this is the first time I've ever swayed from BFG on any of my trucks. I was ready for some great snow traction from what I've read here , I was sadly very disappointed with them in snow and off road. The only thing I can say is they ride nice , and do well in wet weather. I will take mine off and get rid of them by this fall with only 30k on them. I don't think they wear very well either.

Thai , how can you tell Tirerack reviews are inaccurate ? Where do you go to get good reviews ?

Anyone have experience with the regular Bridgestone AT ? I have them on our 4x4 Escape but hard to compare that to the 4r even though they are both 4wd.

 

[Thai]

Fortunately for me, I do have that real world experience, so I feel perfectly comfortable making my decisions based upon my own real world experience and knowledge.

Thai, you may not have a lot of snow experience, but you do seem to have quite a bit of offroad experience in dry conditions. If you wheeled your G with BFG KOs, Revos, and Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armors in the same conditions over the years, would you come to your own conclusions on which tire performs best in which conditions or terrain? Now what if those tires had the equivalent of the snowflake symbol for dirt conditions instead of snow, and the Goodyear was the only tire that earned the symbol, but you knew from experience that both the Revo and BFG were actually better performers in the dirt? Would you put much faith in the symbol?

That is where I am coming from.

You're right that personal experience is important. I am NOT doubting your experience(s) with the tires. However, your friend's 4runner with BFG AT KO may not have been properly maintained, properly inflated, properly rotated, or even worn down, and so on.

All i am saying is that one person's opinion can differ with the next person. It is hard to judge a tire by one or two or three experiences. Just look at TireRack for instance...most of those reviews are by people who want to justify their own purchase...i learned the hard way with my Corolla tires (another story).

What i do know is that the snowflake symbol is a standard.

"Working with the Rubber Association of Canada and the Rubber Manufacturers Association in the U.S., Mr. Neufeld identified a particular test procedure of the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). This test evaluates tires in real-world snow conditions.

After a lot of discussion, all the tiremakers agreed to adopt that recommended ASTM standard, along with the pictograph of a peaked mountain with a snowflake inside it. The new standard was announced in February 1999.

Today, if a tire bears the pictograph, even drivers who cannot read well will know it meets specific snow traction performance requirements and has been designed for severe snow, ice and winter conditions.

The actions of certain individual Canadians have led to improved winter driving safety for anyone in Canada and the U.S. willing to take advantage of it. And the mountain-snowflake symbol is spreading to Europe and beyond."

For more info: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21210

 

[Thai]

And from reading across the net, the snowflake symbol will allow you to pass through areas requiring snow chains...does anyone have personal experience with this??

 

[Thai]

Thai , how can you tell Tirerack reviews are inaccurate ? Where do you go to get good reviews ?

Anyone have experience with the regular Bridgestone AT ? I have them on our 4x4 Escape but hard to compare that to the 4r even though they are both 4wd.

For me, i try to read every info i can get my hands on (about whatever tire class i am interested in). Then, i come to my own conclusion. The TireRack reviews are very inconsistent...most of the reviews are glowing (even about the worst aftermarket tires)...a few are just flamers who put down the worst grades (even on the best tire in the class). And i mean "aftermarket" as a tire you buy to replace OEM tires because almost universally, all OEM tires get trashed by the reviewers who just bought replacement for them. Instead of reading the glowing positive reviews, i read the constructive negative reviews and go from there.

I would not upgrade to a Bridgestone AT...i rather get REVOs since all of them have 2-ply sidewalls. REVOs are the 2nd generation...so, why buy an oldie when the new one is better?? However, there is a special Bridgestone AT that has 3-ply sidewall which is cool...but apparently, it only comes on Hummer H3 from factory. The new Wrangler Sahara also comes with Bridgestone AT from factory, but it's the regular kind (2-ply).

 

[Camprunner]

Falls........ I had the B-stone Duller APT-3 from Sears on my Dodge two years ago and they were just "ok" The APT-3's tread is so similar to standard B-stone AT. I was not happy with them in the snow but it could have bin the truck as well. But I found that when they filled with snow they became like skate's and they would not cleen out.


Thai ....... If it costs a tire manufacture big $$ to get the Mountain on the flake test done do you think some small tire companys that have a tire that is good in the snow just won't pay for the testing? I would figure to put it on the side of a tire we are talking about a new tire mold and thats big $$

 

[Thai]

Thai ....... If it costs a tire manufacture big $$ to get the Mountain on the flake test done do you think some small tire companys that have a tire that is good in the snow just won't pay for the testing? I would figure to put it on the side of a tire we are talking about a new tire mold and thats big $$

And this is yet another reason why i don't buy tires from small company. If they will not spend the little extra $$ on this designation (if they do actually qualify), then you gotta wonder about what else they cut corners on in designing the tire. Remember, the snowflake standard is accepted by ALL tire manufacturers. And given the importance of winter traction these days and the hatred of snow chains, i doubt that any tire company will not advertise the snowflake symbol if their tire met the requirements. The little cost spent on testing will surely be covered by increased sales in the northern states.

As for mold cost, all of these tires get tested before release to public.

The way i see this symbol is like the crash testing data from NHTSA or IIHS. (Of course, unlike the snowflake symbol, these crash data comes out after the vehicle has been release.) Sure, a car that got excellent IIHS data may not do well in some real-life crash if the crash was at a different angle or with a bigger vehicle. But, some consumer (including me) still look at this data closely when buying a vehicle. Why? Because, it is a standard. It is a way to compare a vehicle across the class. It is a way to get some general idea about how a vehicle would perform in most crashes. Is it perfect?? No, but there isn't anything else out there better. Same goes for the snowflake symbol...it is a way to compare a tire's winter performance with other tires. Is it a perfect test?? Probably not, although like IIHS, the snowflake people claims that their testing protocol reflects real life traction. But, i am sure that you can find some ice or snow condition where a snowflake tire may not perform to expectations. It is still a good standard which you can use to compare tire A and tire B.

(Disclaimer: my above analogy may not make sense...it's early in the morning.)

 

[G.I.G.]

all OEM tires get trashed by the reviewers who just bought replacement for them.

It's funny you mention that Thai because I was going to ask why everyone bashes the stock Dunlop tires. Is it strickly because they are the stock tires and no one likes stock anything? I'm all for upgrading tires but I don't think I can justify buying new meats for a truck I haven't even received yet (but I pick it up of Friday ) just because other tires might be a little better.

I have a GC that came stock with the Goodyear Wrangler GSA's and they worked well, so I replaced them with another set of GSA's.

I've read some of the reviews about the stock 4R Dunlops on tirerack and they say things like "driving on ice with these tires is like being on a skating rink" :bash: Last time I checked the car and the driver's ability to drive in adverse weather conditions play just a big a roll as the tires do.

Don't get me wrong, I want a tire that is good in the snow. But if I wanted a tire that was AWESOME in the snow, I would buy a snow tire and know (or at least assume) that I would be giving up ride quality, tread life, or something else in return.

We had a pretty bad winter here in Denver, but even with that I probably drive on dry roads 9 times out of 10. I'm just looking for a tire with good tread life, nice ride on-road (where I spend most my time), average performance off-road (where I spend very little time in comparison), and decent in rain and snow. Am I asking too much?

 

[Thai]

Then i would recommend Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor.

 

[Falls]

Then i would recommend Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor.

I would really like to try these.

Thai , whats you thoughts on them ( from what you know ) on a all terrain basis compared to the BFG AT ?

I've also heard about poor milage with these , but who knows ......... They do look pretty aggressive .


I'll have to check on tread depth to see where they rank.

 

[Falls]

"P" rated 14/32"

"C" rated 16/32"

Anyone have experience on how the ride of the "P" is compared to the "C" ????

 

[G.I.G.]

Then i would recommend Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor.

I'm interested in these tires as well, but from what I can tell they don't make the size that would be a direct replacement for the 4R SE (265/65 R17). Does anyone know if they do make that size or if they have plans to.

I always find it interesting when a tire manufacturer does not make a tire in the size of one of the most popular SUV's on the road. Who knows, maybe it's the same reason why I can't find a replacement rear wiper blade for my Grand Cherokee anywhere. If memory serves I think Chrysler made more than a couple Grand Cherokees, but I digress. :bash:

 

[Falls]

I'm interested in these tires as well, but from what I can tell they don't make the size that would be a direct replacement for the 4R SE (265/65 R17). Does anyone know if they do make that size or if they have plans to.

I always find it interesting when a tire manufacturer does not make a tire in the size of one of the most popular SUV's on the road. Who knows, maybe it's the same reason why I can't find a replacement rear wiper blade for my Grand Cherokee anywhere. If memory serves I think Chrysler made more than a couple Grand Cherokees, but I digress. :bash:

Tires in the 65 series are pretty slim pickens , I went to 265/70/17's , much bigger selection and usually cheaper because they are more mass produced.

Sorry to the orig. poster for getting so far off the orig. question.

 

[Thai]

I would really like to try these.

Thai , whats you thoughts on them ( from what you know ) on a all terrain basis compared to the BFG AT ?

I am not sure, but i would love to try them in the future. From looking at it, i think that it ranks below BFG AT KO in off-roading, but better than REVOs and the likes. Goodyear SA has only 2-ply sidewall, but it is made of special proven tough compound (Durawall) that was first seen on the Goodyear Wrangler MT/R (3-ply sidewall + Durawall). Therefore, it is tougher than your average 2-ply sidewall, but probably weaker than a true 3-ply.

On-road, like recent Goodyear offerings, the SA has more rolling resistance than your average SUV tires. This could be due to their tread design, Kevlar reinforcement, tire weight, or something else. The tread design looks more benign than BFG AT KO, so it should be smoother than BFG AT KO on-road. I don't think that the tire weight is that much different from BFG. It could be the compound that they use which causes more rolling resistance??

Either way, i don't think that you can go wrong with either tire. Both have the snowflake symbol for the snowbelt consumers. I think that for GIG and most members, Goodyear Wrangler SA is a good alternative to the BFG, which is more off-road oriented than most want.

 

[pipspeak]

I've read some of the reviews about the stock 4R Dunlops on tirerack and they say things like "driving on ice with these tires is like being on a skating rink" :bash: Last time I checked the car and the driver's ability to drive in adverse weather conditions play just a big a roll as the tires do.

Tirerack is funny... I especially like some moron who dissed a tire cuz it was no good on "Wet grass". Well, short of having spikes, no tire will grip much on wet grass in my experience. My dunlops with 36K are starting to act up a bit but otherwise they've been fine. Not the greatest steering feel but quiet and smooth.

The only use those reviews are IMO is to see if there's any common thread in complaints (or praise) over a long period. Many reviewers seems to praise a tire after 300 miles having just replaced tires with 50K miles on them. Not exactly subjective.

I just wish there were more professional reviews. Of the few reviews I've read in mags, most have been of the "I got a free trip with a yummy lunch and chance to drive a brand new Range Rover on a carefully designed course and the tires seem great" kind. Pointless.

And then there's consumer reports which, every 2-3 years, will come out with test results that fly in the face of all tirerack reviews, just to confuse us.

 

[pipspeak]

And from reading across the net, the snowflake symbol will allow you to pass through areas requiring snow chains...does anyone have personal experience with this??

Good question... here in CA I believe the requirements are still chains or 4wd with M+S rated tires but that might have changed. I ddn't go up to the snow this last winter.

There's also the most stringent control, which is rare -- chains on all vehicles no matter what.