Roof rack controversy. Gobi Vs Whitson

[Thai]

Look Thai, other then trying to hash this out on T4R night court we are just trying to show our support for the little guy. He was just trying to provide a product for fellow members and it grew to a little more then that just recently. I think most of us are tired of the big box stores so to speak and would rather get a hand made product that you know goes to providing for his family. I commend your effort in support for Gobi, they need a few men like you that stick up for them, I however will side with the Josh's of America. Because in the end we all know who the losers are, it will be the fellow members who might not have spent so much for a rack but decided it went to a member that had the skills and ability to build them a product that was built with appreciation of their trust in his work.
And yes, that's what's wrong with America these days, we are all to dam sue happy when a good'ol stern warning would have done the job.

Does it matter who David is or who Goliath it? I care more about who is right and who is wrong. You're saying that the big box stores never get screwed by the little guys? Or that simply because you're a big box store that you should take it in the ass all day long and keep quiet?

I fail to see the reason behind the rash judgment that i see here. I am apparently in the minority.

 

[CPT2nr88]

Here are picturs of both companies 4th gen racks(stealth for gobi)
Whitson:

Gobi:

They are very different once you look at the actual details. The gobi rack has 6 mounting points compared to WMW's 4. The WMW has its tabs welded to the rack not separate bolt on pieces like gobi.

Both use expanded metal for their floor structure. But Gobi has theirs in 2 pieces with a break where there is a cross member attached to the higher members. WMW has all of his cross members across the bottom under the expanded metal grate.

Also you will see that the back of the gobi rack isn't square. The upper cross member doesn't extend as far back as the lower one does.(This is sort of their trademark for their stealth roof racks) the WMW is square and extends just as far back.

I can't speak to the wall thickness of the tubing that each use since I would have to cut one in half to do so.(anyone want to let me cut one in half?)

Also on the subject of the cross members gobi does a square cut on the ends and then pinches them and welds them to the round tube. Where as It looks like WMW fish mouths them and welds the entire area. WMW's method is much stronger, but the gobi method is designed for commercial production.

Also I can't exactly see where the seams are for the WMW rack. I'm guessing it is made in 2 pieces and then has a plug matching the ID of the tube inserted and then welded and ground so it looks like a continuous tube. You can see the gobi rack bends the outter profile in 2 halves and then slips a coupler over the tubes OD and welds it, to make it one piece. Not quite as nice of a finished product but from a production standpoint its much cheaper to manufacture.

Also the front braces on the gobi rack don't really allow for a large LED bar to be mounded across the front.

 

[Thai]

BTW, WM can easily counter-sue Gobi for financial losses if Gobi claims are false. And yes, i am sure lawyer fees are covered for WM if Gobi is found to be the dumbass here.

 

[wadle5]

I never said that WM blatantly copied Gobi. But IF he did, then Gobi has the right to take action. I could care less who wins this "battle."
An objective person would stand above this and take a step back. You're letting your canceled order of WM rack cloud your judgment.

Persistence plays both ways here....:thumb3:

And yes, i am no good at keeping promises....

But you did actually say blatantly copied?! Thats why I posted that. Also objective?! You seem to be calling the kettle back? Since the beginning you haven't been objective, while you have intermittently said let the legal system work here and there, you have been contradicting anything about WM argument. Also if you truly understand the legal system you realize that with enough money and the right lawyer, the thief can always trump the righteous(case in point OJ Simpson. As for the personal attack on me. . .my rack ordered was not cancelled as I have had it for a while now, but thanks.

Of course, but then why have forum discussion then, right? Why even create this thread? You're a moderator...LOCK THE THREAD THEN!

Knock myself out? OK...thanks. I did look. I am no rack expert to make judgment nor do i have the details of the lawsuit to make judgment. Just because i want to wait for the judgement...that makes me wrong? Really momo.75?!

As it stands, plenty of folks have ALREADY made up their mind...and apparently have taken actions thru social media to bully the Complaint.

Strange...some of us are no different than the folks we criticize for jumping to conclusion (see Trayvon, Brown, etc. supporters). :fear:

There is a difference between discussion and mindless bantering. And for you to finally say I'm no expert racks, your past posts made seemed to infer otherwise about your vast knowledge of the sorts.
Also the belittling and mindset you have comparing this to Trayvon is beyond. Although your trigger words and jumping all over the realm in a single argument and in multiple other examples all over the forum does explain the high number of posts you have. Although not very insightful for some I apologize that you feel threatened when some logically refutes your stance, and you then resort to playing the victim card.

 

[Nyc-Runner]

This is very unfortunate! Like a lot of you i planned on owning a WMW rack some day in the future also. I hope this gets resolved as quickly as possible for you and you come out on top! You would think they would go after Perkins performance for they're roof rack? I think Perkins is identical looking to Gobi rather than WMW! But at the end of the day i bet you Perkins isn't pushing out anything near as many racks as WMW so Gobi's going after the bigger threat!

Perkins Performance roof rack

 

[Thai]

Since the beginning you haven't been objective, while you have intermittently said let the legal system work here and there, you have been contradicting anything about WM argument.

And for you to finally say I'm no expert racks, your past posts made seemed to infer otherwise about your vast knowledge of the sorts.

Hey dude...here is a quote from my FIRST post in this thread: (top of page 4)

I do not think that it is wise to make judgment so soon without hearing the OTHER side (Gobi's side).

I am sure that Whitson is a stand up guy with great customer service...but IF he did steal some design features, then he is guilty as the next *******.

I have no idea about these racks nor claim to be on either side...but objectivity is needed and we need to wait for the last bell before making judgment.

Just my opinion.

Please don't let personal feelings get in the way of objectivity.

 

[wadle5]

Apparently, you missed the boat...hell, you miss the exit to the dock!

IF...please re-read my post and pay attention to that 2-letter word.

Has Gobi made an argument here? Did i miss it? You're basing your judgment on what? On WM's arguments only? Forgot if it was you, but someone wanted to spam Gobi on social media. Please point out where Gobi has stated its side of the story.

Infer that i am an expert ? I have stated from beginning dude. Re-read my posts.

Ahh, now shitting on my post count! That's just wrong! Maybe you should UNLIKE my multiple posts throughout the forum first.... You seem to LIKE my posts often...just saying.

Play victim? Not me...never have. Are you reading the right thread? You LOGICALLY refuting me? You are kidding!! Whew, i thought that you were serious there for a moment! :thumb3:

Again in my entire counter you ignore several critical points. So lets make this clear for you:
The actual facts from post#51 as stated by you
"Should it not be WM's job to come up with a better design to beat Gobi than (blatantly) copy an existing one????? "

So again your ranting is fruitless and I dont see how you could come out of this one. But again I'm sure your back pedaling will prove to further delineate from what this original thread is for and instead make it about self.
Cheers to boosting your eliteness :fear:

Somehow every other posts consists of you saying "dont let personal feelings get in the way". Again seems like that is all that you do and you are always right in your arguments/discussions and it is never due to personal but clearly stated scientific fact.

 

[Thai]

Again in my entire counter you ignore several critical points. So lets make this clear for you:
The actual facts from post#51 as stated by you
"Should it not be WM's job to come up with a better design to beat Gobi than (blatantly) copy an existing one????? "

Oh never mind. I now know what i am dealing with. Geez dude open your mind. Good talking to you. :brick:

 

[wadle5]

Oh never mind. I now know what i am dealing with. Geez dude open your mind. Good talking to you. :brick:

What your own words proving several of your past posts invalid, and again only taking part of my posts to refute?
Good luck out there kid


Likewise :ranger:

 

[goughy]

You would think they would go after Perkins performance for they're roof rack?

Perhaps they did.

I tried looking up Perkins Performance, Puyallup WA. An entry on Yelp from 2013 claims it is closed.

Norton blocked access to their website perkinsperformance.com and flagged it as a malicious website.

Anybody had contact with them lately?

 

[TiN]

Here are picturs of both companies 4th gen racks(stealth for gobi)
Whitson:

Gobi:

They are very different once you look at the actual details. The gobi rack has 6 mounting points compared to WMW's 4. The WMW has its tabs welded to the rack not separate bolt on pieces like gobi.

Both use expanded metal for their floor structure. But Gobi has theirs in 2 pieces with a break where there is a cross member attached to the higher members. WMW has all of his cross members across the bottom under the expanded metal grate.

Also you will see that the back of the gobi rack isn't square. The upper cross member doesn't extend as far back as the lower one does.(This is sort of their trademark for their stealth roof racks) the WMW is square and extends just as far back.

I can't speak to the wall thickness of the tubing that each use since I would have to cut one in half to do so.(anyone want to let me cut one in half?)

Also on the subject of the cross members gobi does a square cut on the ends and then pinches them and welds them to the round tube. Where as It looks like WMW fish mouths them and welds the entire area. WMW's method is much stronger, but the gobi method is designed for commercial production.

Also I can't exactly see where the seams are for the WMW rack. I'm guessing it is made in 2 pieces and then has a plug matching the ID of the tube inserted and then welded and ground so it looks like a continuous tube. You can see the gobi rack bends the outter profile in 2 halves and then slips a coupler over the tubes OD and welds it, to make it one piece. Not quite as nice of a finished product but from a production standpoint its much cheaper to manufacture.

Also the front braces on the gobi rack don't really allow for a large LED bar to be mounded across the front.

Great observations. There are definitely many design decisions made by Whitson that are not present on the Gobi rack. Whether these differences are enough to completely dispute the alleged infringements, well, time will tell.

 

[MyHigh]

Wow, amazing how much things change in just a few hours!

Some peoples kids......

Josh,

Please don't let the direction of this thread to deter you from keeping us informed on the status of your situation. I do hope that if you ever feel the need to do a go fund me page or something, to let us know, there will be people willing to do what they can however little it may be to help out.
Godspeed!

 

[Range]

I think Thai should represent Gobi and Wadle5 should represent Whitson but not in the court room.........on the trail. A battle of driving skills tested across all terrains. Winner gets bragging rights and the loser has to answer every single thread in the 5th Gen section about tires, shocks and.........roof racks for 6 months straight.

 

[wadle5]

I think Thai should represent Gobi and Wadle5 should represent Whitson but not in the court room.........on the trail. A battle of driving skills tested across all terrains. Winner gets bragging rights and the loser has to answer every single thread in the 5th Gen section about tires, shocks and.........roof racks for 6 months straight.

Answer. . .or correctly give information. Don't leave the 4th gen section out of this offer. As I can tell you right now I am not that well versed in the almighty 5th gen, except for the fact it is going to be my next vehicle.

 

[SKP-4R]

____

 

[FlipStyle54]

This is very unfortunate! Like a lot of you i planned on owning a WMW rack some day in the future also. I hope this gets resolved as quickly as possible for you and you come out on top! You would think they would go after Perkins performance for they're roof rack? I think Perkins is identical looking to Gobi rather than WMW! But at the end of the day i bet you Perkins isn't pushing out anything near as many racks as WMW so Gobi's going after the bigger threat!

Perkins Performance roof rack
View attachment 169514

Tis a shame. Other than my lift, my Whitson rack was my first major mod on my 4runner to customize it to my needs. Josh is an awesome guy and provided great customer service. Best wishes Josh

 

[MyHigh]

Yeah Josh certainly has put the time into his design to make his racks look OE. They just plain look like the 4Runner was built for his racks....

 

[Range]

Answer. . .or correctly give information. Don't leave the 4th gen section out of this offer. As I can tell you right now I am not that well versed in the almighty 5th gen, except for the fact it is going to be my next vehicle.

Lol. I think correctly giving information would be more irritating. And take back what you said about switching to a 5th Gen. Your 4Runner is the baddest thing around.....and maybe I'm saying that because ours are pretty much identical.

 

[the great him]

Good points Thai. First, I was not ever contacted by the other guys. Had I been, I very likely would have folded right up as I've sworn these racks off 20 times, at least. Now, however, I sortof have no choice but to push back since doing nothing means I'll be living on the street, based on the demands and tone of the lawsuit.

As for R&D costs: I did this in my driveway with tools most of you have. Outside of the shape and mounts, what else is there? Roof racks aren't exactly precision instruments. I hope they didn't pay engineers for crying out loud.

Theres only so many ways to slice the low profile roof rack bread. It still has to fit the same roof afterall. Even tube construction has its own "rules" if you will which somewhat sets where cross members or other parts and pieces need to be. Outside of those constraints, they're different from every angle.

Ok, I'm out again, thanks everyone!

having made quite a bit of custom stuff, and making my own roofracks (yes plural) and there is almost no cost in R&D other than the time to make a rack and use it, and the materials to do so. its not rocket science, you dont need to be a engineer to build one or a professional welder... it just takes a little patience, mechanical aptitude, creative thinking and tools. so the argument that Gobi has spent tons of money on R&D is absurd, at least they didnt have to -especially if they are such the small company they are claiming to be. -Josh im behind you every step of the way man, anyway i can help im there! -the only thing your racks have in common is they are black they both have round tubes and they go on the roof... but apparently thats enough for gobi to think they own that part of the universe

Perhaps they did.

I tried looking up Perkins Performance, Puyallup WA. An entry on Yelp from 2013 claims it is closed.

Norton blocked access to their website perkinsperformance.com and flagged it as a malicious website.

Anybody had contact with them lately?

perkins performance had a lot of other issues, their quality control was out the window, checking orders and making sure that they built the right products for their customers was lacking.... i have first hand seen and be involved with the piss poor management of them and their business... just from my experience with them im not surprised they are no longer in business. i dont think Gobi needed to help that along any.

but i would like to know more about the gobi vs baja(if it is infact legit), cause i think gobi has bitten off way more than they can chew there, baja is a much bigger company and their racks are even more variant than the WM racks... to me it sounds like gobi is hurting hard and grasping for straws to stay afloat... once again, Josh, i hope you win and this ends up sinking them. greed is the fastest way to ruin something!

 

[Twan]

I wonder how that woman is associated with Gobi, since she feels the need to respond to everyone.