Roof rack controversy. Gobi Vs Whitson

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No, we shouldn't. That's not going to do any good for Whitson and his defense. There's a line between being informative and having a dialog versus attacking them, and we should not be crossing it. Crusading against them like that can only do more harm than good for Josh.

I said nothing of attacking. Bombarding them asking to drop the suit is far from attacking. It does however send a message that this tight community doesn't stand for eating its own. Whitson has done plenty for this community as has Gobi, but each's character is shining true right now. Josh him self stated that Gobi's patent is different down to the very bends. Unless Gobi has a patent on roof racks in general this whole thing is crap (and still would be if they did) and IMHO they need a little community directive.
 
Nope. Its the selling a patent protected product that puts one in jeopardy. And then I think its only the profits that can be gone after unless selling it also hurt the patent holder - in that case damages can be sought too.

I realize. I just was making an jack ass statement that mirrors this jack ass lawsuit.
 
If WMW set up his business correctly its a llc. Meaning that if we give Josh the money directly to support him and his family in this time of need, then no one including Gobi can touch that money, even if they win and get a damages award... If there is no llc, then the GFM account would have to be managed by a trusted 3rd party and "backdoored" to Josh. And that could get dicey and be construed wrong by a lot of people -kinda in the same way as Gobi is wording their lawsuit.

You still have to be careful with being an LLC. Just because one of the benefits to having an LLC is that your personal assets can't be touched isn't entirely true. Some states will go after person assets from individuals that own LLC's. So many people are lead into thinking that just because they're an LLC that they can't be touched.

You should looking into something called veil piercing or corporate veil piercing. Veil piercing is something that effects LLC owners in some situations where the court feels an LLC member(s) are to be held responsible. These are things that any good lawyer would inform clients of while getting business information, or at least mine did.
 
I realize. I just was making an jack ass statement that mirrors this jack ass lawsuit.

oh sorry, didn't realize :)

But the verdict is still out if the lawsuit has any merit or not. We have laws exactly because we don't want to be ruled by emotion or by what's popular.

IF the patent is valid.
IF the other product infringes on the patent.
If the infringed product was sold for profit

Then, Gobi has a righteous claim. Not liking it makes no difference to the law.

But even IF all of the above is true they do seem willing to discuss and maybe settle so the ball seems to be in Whitson's court.
 
You still have to be careful with being an LLC. Just because one of the benefits to having an LLC is that your personal assets can't be touched isn't entirely true. Some states will go after person assets from individuals that own LLC's. So many people are lead into thinking that just because they're an LLC that they can't be touched.

You should looking into something called veil piercing or corporate veil piercing. Veil piercing is something that effects LLC owners in some situations where the court feels an LLC member(s) are to be held responsible. These are things that any good lawyer would inform clients of while getting business information, or at least mine did.

I think to pierce the veil there has to be some extraordinary circumstances such as fraud. No evidence of that here that I can see.

Although, it may be iffy if he personally raised money to aid in defending a lawsuit against the LLC. That I don't know.

Best to keep it all above board and in the open. Again, it would not be that much money at all to just consult with a patent lawyer. However he should still first contact Paul to see what exactly they want.
 
I think to pierce the veil there has to be some extraordinary circumstances such as fraud. No evidence of that here that I can see.

Although, it may be iffy if he personally raised money to aid in defending a lawsuit against the LLC. That I don't know.

Best to keep it all above board and in the open. Again, it would not be that much money at all to just consult with a patent lawyer. However he should still first contact Paul to see what exactly they want.

It has nothing to do with fraud, but more so who is overseeing the case. Piercing the veil could be anything from fraud to design rendering. There's no scope to it, and no boundaries. However, something like this situation will more likely never see that happen, but it could. These piercings happen to smaller companies a lot more than large ones. The reason being is the fact the small LLC's don't have the assets to cover damages in most situations.

Like I said, I don't see this being that kind of situation.
 
I have been in several patent infringement suits on both sides in my career. I can tell you things are not always as they seem. I agree totally with [MENTION=6163]phillyd2[/MENTION]. Let it progress and it will sort itself out, regardless of sides. BTW what a train wreck of a thread. Those of you on both sides that think you are helping are really not. Now that it has been brought out into the public no matter who "wins" they will also lose. People (customers) now have something else to sway their opinion. Instead of just buying a roof rack based on price and quality they will now (at least for the immediate future) buy based on who they favor (and also the cheerleader's actions and words) in this suit. Remember that while some of you like the little guy there will be people that side with the big guy too. There will be no winner now. Passion is great for sporting events and relationships. Lawsuits, medicine and engineering not so much.
 
Hopefully the same one as ID2000. . .. . :hungry:

You sure you want that? Lawyers ethics may not be that good...and since you all claim that Gobi has deeper pockets...you SURE that you want the same lawyer?! :noidea:

On a more serious note, this thread may be famous now...but in the end, this thread may be infamous and a prime example of how internet enthusiasm can make or destroy a company.
 
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You sure you want that? Lawyers ethics may not be that good...and since you all claim that Gobi has deeper pockets...you SURE that you want the same lawyer?! :noidea:

I apologize Thai.......that was sarcasm :rofl:
It's obviously a conflict of interest and would definitely want a different party in this matter
 
I have been in several patent infringement suits on both sides in my career. I can tell you things are not always as they seem. I agree totally with [MENTION=6163]phillyd2[/MENTION]. Let it progress and it will sort itself out, regardless of sides. BTW what a train wreck of a thread. Those of you on both sides that think you are helping are really not. Now that it has been brought out into the public no matter who "wins" they will also lose. People (customers) now have something else to sway their opinion. Instead of just buying a roof rack based on price and quality they will now (at least for the immediate future) buy based on who they favor (and also the cheerleader's actions and words) in this suit. Remember that while some of you like the little guy there will be people that side with the big guy too. There will be no winner now. Passion is great for sporting events and relationships. Lawsuits, medicine and engineering not so much.

I cannot help but disagree. Though you are right that the emotion attached to a thread like this can quickly become a witch-hunt, its still good to be informed about who you are buying from. I don't research every purchase I make out side of the product Im buying (typically), but when unasked for information crosses my path I don't ignore it. Especially when it concerns a tight knit that community that I care for and who's ethics I end up supporting. Gobi may not be that big of a guy with all things considered, but their actions are unbecoming at best...right, wrong, or indifferent. Base on WM claims their patent doesn't apply to his product, so unless they own a patent on The Roof Rack (period) then they seem to be strategically tying his hand by causing legal issues, which most small guys (like WM) just cannot afford. It is bullying.

If Gobi wanted to handle this well they should have gone straight to WM and had a chat...I can't say they didn't do this, but based on how WM described it hitting his radar, it was far from that. I also can't say that WM isn't a straight up lair either, but he has a very strong reputation here and in all the interaction he seems to be a very stand up guy.

Ive read most say essentially "lets see how the suit goes." This is bothersome because it doesn't undo the stress, headache, and complication to life the suit causes even if WM does win. Laws are meant to direct right, but all to offend they are manipulated to benefit the one that is willing to be more crafty and I simply don't agree with that and too may times hurts the one in the right and benefits the one in the wrong.

I understand stress involved with similar type business tactics and it sucks, it sucks for everyone in close proximity to you too and sometimes being on the right side of right and wrong is just plain hard.

I will have no problem standing with the guy that I perceive to be in the right, simple as that.
 
I cannot help but disagree. Though you are right that the emotion attached to a thread like this can quickly become a witch-hunt, its still good to be informed about who you are buying from. I don't research every purchase I make out side of the product Im buying (typically), but when unasked for information crosses my path I don't ignore it. Especially when it concerns a tight knit that community that I care for and who's ethics I end up supporting. Gobi may not be that big of a guy with all things considered, but their actions are unbecoming at best...right, wrong, or indifferent. Base on WM claims their patent doesn't apply to his product, so unless they own a patent on The Roof Rack (period) then they seem to be strategically tying his hand by causing legal issues, which most small guys (like WM) just cannot afford. It is bullying.

If Gobi wanted to handle this well they should have gone straight to WM and had a chat...I can't say they didn't do this, but based on how WM described it hitting his radar, it was far from that. I also can't say that WM isn't a straight up lair either, but he has a very strong reputation here and in all the interaction he seems to be a very stand up guy.

Ive read most say essentially "lets see how the suit goes." This is bothersome because it doesn't undo the stress, headache, and complication to life the suit causes even if WM does win. Laws are meant to direct right, but all to offend they are manipulated to benefit the one that is willing to be more crafty and I simply don't agree with that and too may times hurts the one in the right and benefits the one in the wrong.

I understand stress involved with similar type business tactics and it sucks, it sucks for everyone in close proximity to you too and sometimes being on the right side of right and wrong is just plain hard.

I will have no problem standing with the guy that I perceive to be in the right, simple as that.

The only issue with this is that some so far have failed to do this while also leaving emotion at the door. Support for one party does not equal attacking the opposite party

$.02
 
Support for one party does not equal attacking the opposite party

$.02

Attack, or validating fact checking? :laser:
Keeping in mind without the push that occurred we all would have started believing whohastime was a great public informant. . . but really it again just proved a company after trying to get the thread closed, threaten another individual, decided to try an infiltrate(lack of better term) the conversation and trying steering it away from the issue and towards other members. Their intimidation/immitation game is strong, but again not necessary.
And while one might argue passion and emotion, I simply would say I was stubbornly pushing logic.
 
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The only issue with this is that some so far have failed to do this while also leaving emotion at the door. Support for one party does not equal attacking the opposite party

$.02

Fair enough, however I would say it's more of an issue controlling emotion...I would consider emotional over this, because it happens that I can be very empathetic with this situation. Emotion shouldn't take over rational, however it can be a good driver for exercising good rational.
 
Base on WM claims their patent doesn't apply to his product, so unless they own a patent on The Roof Rack (period) then they seem to be strategically tying his hand by causing legal issues, which most small guys (like WM) just cannot afford. It is bullying.

Ive read most say essentially "lets see how the suit goes." This is bothersome because it doesn't undo the stress, headache, and complication to life the suit causes even if WM does win. Laws are meant to direct right, but all to offend they are manipulated to benefit the one that is willing to be more crafty and I simply don't agree with that and too may times hurts the one in the right and benefits the one in the wrong.

I will have no problem standing with the guy that I perceive to be in the right, simple as that.

I agree that Gobi's actions are really strange (and downright moronic such as double registration). 100% agree with everyone. But being a moron does not automatically mean that he/she is wrong either.

But you're basing your conclusion on an assumption...which is a bad idea IMHO. WM claims may be quite clear and he may be 100% right...but none of us are patent experts and none of us (thus far) are lawyers nor experts in the field of patents. So, drawing a conclusion already is a flawed logic...as I have explained earlier in this thread.

Where does it leave us? Jury + Judge + Executioner. Is that what we want to become? So many here say this whole Gobi suing is not American...well, frankly, what do you think is American about being the jury, judge, and executioner all in one?

This is why I would love to hear from a lawyer...ideally one in the patent field.

Bullying...that is interesting concept. So, before we know who's right, some on here have already spam Gobi social media...some on here want to spread the news of Gobi being evil everywhere to force Gobi to back down or else they suffer the consequences. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the THE DEFINITION of bullying??

Of course, being sued sucks. Of course, it costs money. Trust me, I am in a professional field that is always at risk. But I love what I do. If I wanted to avoid being sued, then I probably take a lesser job or do less with my life.

Now, WM...he seems like a great guy from basically everyone I have talked to...here or via PMs. No arguments from me.

However, here's the thing...WM should know that if he produces something and he's NOT the first to do it, then he is at risk for being sued. That comes with the territory. Hell, even if you came up with it first, but someone beat you to the patent office, then you're at risk. Whether the lawsuit is right or not, it comes with the territory. Should every manufacturer check with their lawyers about existing patents? YES!! Even then, that is not a guarantee. WM may not have the resources to check existing patents...but that does NOT excuse him from being sued by someone else. When you make something that makes a profit and you're not the first and have not patent it, then expect some heat from competitors. If you expect that competitors only would just "one up" you in design and not resort to any other method, then you are very naïve in the United States of America (or anywhere really; maybe except China!).

If you open a business whether it be your backyard or garage or business complex, then you are fair game. Patents, whether stupid or not, are there for a reason. Without them, you have China.

So, as stated before, you guys can defecate on Gobi all you want...but for the interest of parties involved (WM and Gobi), you guys need to wait for the legal system to pass judgment.

My many cents input so far....
 
Attack, or validating fact checking? :laser:
Keeping in mind without the push that occurred we all would have started believing whohastime was a great public informant. . . but really it again proved a company after trying to get the thread closed, decided to try an infiltrate(lack of better term) the conversation and trying steering it away from the issue and towards other members.

Oh I've got no qualms with the investigative aspects of whats gone on, and I don't feel too great about how Gobi ID2000 or whoever they are has gone about handling whats happened in the forum, but the Facebook aspect of whats happened and some of the more extreme responses can be embarrassing both for the forum and personally. Not talking about you personally
 
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