Safety considerations with steel bumper

[Morphyne]

I am planning on give my 4runner to my son. We don't off road but I like the looks of a three hoop steel bumper and I am giving serious credence to putting one on before he takes over. The idea would be that a 3 hoop steel bumper will provide more safety. And also lesd repairs on minor fender benders (on my end).

Thoughts?

 

[KidVermicious]

You've got it backwards. The front bumper is an integral part of how the truck protects it's occupants in a crash. Putting a blingy bumper on to satisfy your vanity will be less safety for your son, not more.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Having seen a few pictures of our tricks with steel bumpers getting into front end collisions, the front bumpers stay intact very well and usually protects our trucks from a lot of damage. I would guess that would come at a cost of a harsher impact or more damage to the other vehicle since you eliminated any crumple effect of your flimsy stock bumper.

 

[bamma]

I researched this quite a bit before putting a heavy steel bumper (Expedition One) on my Tundra. Every accident I could find with the steel bumper looked like it helped the car, but often damages the other car more. 4R frames themselves have crumple zones, having a steel bumper won't affect that. I could see in a very high speed impact situation where you would get more whiplash due to the steel bumper not absorbing as much impact.

Overall I think it would be safer, as you will tend to go through whatever car you hit (more dangerous for other driver).

Also, if you were to hit a tree or stationary object at high speed, a steel bumper may be worse (but if you hit a stationary object at high speed you are probably screwed either way. I saw a 4R that completely disintegrated after hitting a tree.

 

[Trumpet]

Want him to be safe? Leave the stock bumper in place, and put a restrictor on the ignition until he learns to drive.

Modern bumpers are designed to absorb and dissipate impacts, transferring less energy to the cabin occupants. A all steel bumper rigidly mounted to the frame, that's gonna hurt.

 

[bamma]

Want him to be safe? Leave the stock bumper in place, and put a restrictor on the ignition until he learns to drive.

Modern bumpers are designed to absorb and dissipate impacts, transferring less energy to the cabin occupants. A all steel bumper rigidly mounted to the frame, that's gonna hurt.

Unless you hit a solid object (tree, barrier, etc.) you still have a very large crumple zone. The other car. I have never seen any evidence that an aftermarket bumper has killed or injured an occupant (of the car with the bumper) where they would have otherwise been OK.

 

[alhang]

I've had a few friends in accidents with heavy steel bumpers. Like the others have said, for low speed crashes they do pretty well. But for anything that would be considered life threatening, the bumper may cause issues with air bags not going off and crumple zones not absorbing enough of the impact. If you do plan on getting one, I'd probably get an ARB, they're the only ones I know of that rate their bumpers as air-bag compatible.

Bull Bars / Bumpers & Tire Carriers

 

[bamma]

I've had a few friends in accidents with heavy steel bumpers. Like the others have said, for low speed crashes they do pretty well. But for anything that would be considered life threatening, the bumper may cause issues with air bags not going off and crumple zones not absorbing enough of the impact. If you do plan on getting one, I'd probably get an ARB, they're the only ones I know of that rate their bumpers as air-bag compatible.

Bull Bars / Bumpers & Tire Carriers

ARB are airbag "tested", but airbags go off based on changes in speed, not the impact itself. A steel bumper shouldn't make a difference in regards to airbags.

 

[m85476585]

Unless you hit a solid object (tree, barrier, etc.) you still have a very large crumple zone. The other car. I have never seen any evidence that an aftermarket bumper has killed or injured an occupant (of the car with the bumper) where they would have otherwise been OK.

Yeah, but if your truck doesn't crumple at all and you're relying on the other car, you only have half as much crumple zone.

 

[KidVermicious]

Pretty sure the deal with airbag compatibility isn't that they won't go off, it's that they go off at lower speed impacts because the rigid bumper doesn't suck up any of the force.

All the ARB bumpers I've installed had little wrinkly bits in the frame mounts, that appear to be meant to squish in case of an impact and absorb some of that force.

 

[Trumpet]

Unless you hit a solid object (tree, barrier, etc.) you still have a very large crumple zone. The other car. I have never seen any evidence that an aftermarket bumper has killed or injured an occupant (of the car with the bumper) where they would have otherwise been OK.

If I was building a dedicated off road rig, I'd roll with different bumpers. For street use, well I'm not a poseur, so I'd stick with what came from the factory.

More mass means more damage, less yield, means more energy dissipated elsewhere in the vehicle. Adding weight to the Front will change how the sensors respond. IMO.

Also IMO There's a lot of Kool-aid involved in modern safety design, I survived a accident with serious injury even though the air bags didn't deploy, nor the On-star work as advertised. 45mph T-bone into a Jeep Liberty, that rolled a stop sign. Totaled both vehicles.

 

[bamma]

If I was building a dedicated off road rig, I'd roll with different bumpers. For street use, well I'm not a poseur, so I'd stick with what came from the factory.

More mass means more damage, less yield, means more energy dissipated elsewhere in the vehicle. Adding weight to the Front will change how the sensors respond. IMO.

Also IMO There's a lot of Kool-aid involved in modern safety design, I survived a accident with serious injury even though the air bags didn't deploy, nor the On-star work as advertised. 45mph T-bone into a Jeep Liberty, that rolled a stop sign. Totaled both vehicles.

Well, I don't have the cash or space for a dedicated off-road rig. But my Tundra with Demello sliders and Exp One bumper was great on and off road. I ended up selling it and now drive a 200 series Land Cruiser (without armor for now).

I think the biggest downside is in a low speed impact with a large object (F-250, tree, etc.) you are more likely to get frame damage as you don't have the super low impact crush cans to project the frame (crush cans don't protect you, and were not designed to do so). Modern frames are designed to crumple. The biggest safety factor on impact to you is letting the frame dissipate the load and an aftermarket bumper won't change that. Again, the other issue is hitting a stationary object that has no give. In that scenario, I agree you could get hurt more. But when you have more mass, you may crumple slightly less, but the car you hit will crumple more.

And you are correct, more mass=more damage, but for the other driver. The more weight you add to your car makes it more likely that the other car will get damaged more.

Take crash test rating. I'd take a 4 star rated Tundra at 5700 lbs vs a 5 star rated honda civic at 2700 lbs any day of the week.

I know there aren't enough studies on this, but understanding physics and how crumple zones work, I'd be fine with a family member adding armor, and if I had to take a frontal impact, I'd take armor over non-armor 10 times out of 10.

A good buddy of mine is an EMT, and he told me he would never own a truck without a front armored bumper. Obviously that is just an opinion, but after some of the accidents he has seen, I will give it some deference.

 

[bamma]

Also, if you worry a steel bumper is going to kill you, you should remove your tow hitch if you have one, as they are more stout that most aftermarket bumpers, and would have the same effect on impact pushing force into the frame...

 

[frodiesel]

Airbag sensors do not change when you put a different bumper on these rigs. Other cars may be different, but it is not a mystery how the sensor works. Sheesh, yall are drinking the kool-aid on that one. But seriously so many factors in a crash. Think if it this way, if you are a 250lb guy vs a 130 drunk girl in terrible wreck the chick usually survives, depending on what she runs her porche into, but force =mass x acceleration. The sensor uses a change in momentum to activate the bag, not a carefully place sensor on the stock bumper. Maybe those who are afraid an airbag wont go off will enlighten me with their 'alternative facts' of wizard physics. [MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION] on points of vainity from mount 'Utard' is it?

 

[frodiesel]

I've had a few friends in accidents with heavy steel bumpers. Like the others have said, for low speed crashes they do pretty well. But for anything that would be considered life threatening, the bumper may cause issues with air bags not going off and crumple zones not absorbing enough of the impact. If you do plan on getting one, I'd probably get an ARB, they're the only ones I know of that rate their bumpers as air-bag compatible.

Bull Bars / Bumpers & Tire Carriers

Also, my ARB bumper clearly states the opposite of what you proclaim. How much they paying you?? So much misinformation and hearsay in this thread. You seem to have the most factual info to offer but devulge none.

If it was my son i would be more worried he would roll the beast due to inexperience. I would never put a new driver in a vehicle with rear wheel drive and a high center of gravity. They drive too fast and do not Accurately understand risk until they are 25-30.

Were you going to put a new set of OEM ball joints on before or after the bumper?

 

[Doozi]

Maybe something worth looking into.

In the event of an accident involving another vehicle you may be more liable for any injuries sustained by the other vehicle's occupants. I don't know the details, but a friend of mine was told that after a crash so that might be worth looking into with a younger/less experienced driver behind the wheel.

 

[frodiesel]

In the event of an accident involving another vehicle you may be more liable for any injuries sustained by the other vehicle's occupants. I don't know the details, but a friend of mine was told that after a crash so that might be worth looking into with a younger/less experienced driver behind the wheel.

So your friend was 'Told' something after a crash. Again with the basic request for facts we get none. If you dont know, why are you talking about it. I dont see how any of that is true. So if i get in a wreck with a semi, how is it different. Its not like arb sells it with a bayonet attachment....good gravey do we all live in sue-ville or alternate fact land?

And by liable, you mean my insurance company. Not me actually. The bumper doesnt assume fault because of its material makeup. Is anyone here and actual underwriter so we can get some facts by page three.

 

[NinjaOne]

In the event of an accident involving another vehicle you may be more liable for any injuries sustained by the other vehicle's occupants. I don't know the details, but a friend of mine was told that after a crash so that might be worth looking into with a younger/less experienced driver behind the wheel.

This should be true regardless of what bumper/mods you have done if you are determined to be at fault. If your mods cause more extensive injuries, even if the injuries are not linked to those mods, you/your insurance are still on the hook + compensation for lost wages etc etc

Disclaimer: I am not an insurance adjuster/lawyer etc. This is based off my family experience with a minivan and jaywalker

 

[alhang]

Also, my ARB bumper clearly states the opposite of what you proclaim. How much they paying you?? So much misinformation and hearsay in this thread. You seem to have the most factual info to offer but devulge none.

If it was my son i would be more worried he would roll the beast due to inexperience. I would never put a new driver in a vehicle with rear wheel drive and a high center of gravity. They drive too fast and do not Accurately understand risk until they are 25-30.

Were you going to put a new set of OEM ball joints on before or after the bumper?

Here's what I got from actual experience, not something read elsewhere or from youtube. ARB makes non-air bag compatible and Air-bag compatible bumpers. I modified a non-air bag compatible one with some friends to mount my Warn M12000 on my old truck. The mounts are different, because I've installed a few I know the ARB air-bag compatible mounts have crumple zones. Pics attached of the non-air bag solid mounts. The other pic I've attached is one of the vehicles that I know had a front end collision and tore the front end off a honda civic. The air bags did not go off, it was a safari-gard bumper. The civic was totaled, and the front end damage caused the insurance company to total the rover too, where it was bought by another friend and repaired in Maryland.

The civic was t-boned cause he ran a red light and broke in half, the rover suffered hood, frame, and fender damage. The driver of the rover had back issues for quite some time.

frodiesel if you got any other questions just let me know, i got no idea why my opinion counts any less than yours. I don't work for ARB, I'm a network engineer so I only do this stuff for fun.

 

[KidVermicious]

[MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION] on points of vainity from mount 'Utard' is it?

Not as Utarded as you, apparently. I have no idea what you're trying to say here but if it's anything like the rest of your post I'm not missing much.