"Sealed" transmission service observation

[WXman]

I drained my trans. pan when I bought this 4R at 104,300 miles. Fluid looked horrible.

Put 3.5 quarts back in through the fill hole, ran it and warmed it up some, pulled the check plug and fluid gushed out!

This was a month or two ago. Out of curiosity, I pulled the check plug again last night while the fluid was around 115 degrees and fluid gushed out.

According to what I'm reading...if fluid gushes out of the check hole then it's overfilled. But...I only put 3.5 quarts in to begin with. Something seems odd.

So I stumbled upon this .pdf on the forum today, and if I'm reading it correctly, this pan only holds 1.37 quarts of fluid. It says for a "pan or drain plug repair" to add 1.37 quarts to the fill hole.

If that is the case, then no wonder fluid gushes out of my check plug! It's been way overfilled!

I will drain and refill again tonight with less fluid....and I'll be sure to try and do it right this time.

 

[JB.]

Going through the document line by line is confusing (See this thread for an updated version that revises the temperature range) but nearly everyone gets between 3 and 4 quarts when draining the pan.

In my case, all I know is that fluid level checks confirm that I'm still at factory fill level after multiple drains and fills that replaced the same amount that came out. The amount that came out was always at least 3.5 quarts and on one occasion, slightly over 4.

 

[RPS13]

BTW - does the sealed trans have a drain plug? From reading through the FSM it almost seemed like it had a "fill level tube" that drains from a higher level (i.e. not the bottom of the pan), but that didn't make much sense with also having a fill plug on the side.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

BTW - does the sealed trans have a drain plug? From reading through the FSM it almost seemed like it had a "fill level tube" that drains from a higher level (i.e. not the bottom of the pan), but that didn't make much sense with also having a fill plug on the side.

There are two plugs on the oil pan, there is a drain plug and an inspection port. The inspection port tube sits roughly where the fluid should be at a given temperature range; it will usually, if not always gush fluid when you remove it (unless underfilled) because fluid will spill into the inspection tube in various conditions.

The way to check the fluid temperature between the range specified (95*~110* IIRC) and then remove the inspection plug. Let the fluid drain from the inspection tube and after a short while you should only have "drips" from the inspection tube, not a stream but a slight drip. No drip indicates underfilled, a stream indicates overfilled. There is a fill plug located on the side of the transmission as you pointed out.

 

[WXman]

Well I made up a jumper wire with some pieces I found in my toolbox and I was able to get the AT temp light to go into check mode.

Even with the transmission at 115 I didn't get anything to come out of the check hole this time. Odd. So 3.5 was too much the first time, and 3.0 wasn't enough the second time. WTH?

Guess I will put in two more quarts tomorrow and try the process again. What a PITA.

 

[RPS13]

So the "drain and fill" method is to overfill the pan then get the trans to the right temp and open the inspection port?

I'm contemplating pulling the ATF cooler return and doing it that way. Got 10 quarts of Redline D4 ATF to try to freshen up the fluid as much as possible.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So the "drain and fill" method is to overfill the pan then get the trans to the right temp and open the inspection port?

I'm contemplating pulling the ATF cooler return and doing it that way. Got 10 quarts of Redline D4 ATF to try to freshen up the fluid as much as possible.

Pretty much... when I do it I leave the inspection plug off so I know when it starts gushin' out the inspection tube I'm maybe in the overfilled side, then close it up, get it to temp and check fluid level then and adjust accordingly.

 

[WXman]

Here is the problem.. the fill plug is way up high. You can only get to it by reaching around the exhaust, and, you can only fill it by using a hand pump. So if the engine is hot you can't add fluid unless you don't care about the skin on your arms.

So the only way I can see to do this job safely at home is to purposefully overfill the pan while the vehicle is cool, then put the fill plug back in. Then warm the trans. to proper temp and pull the check plug.

If nothing comes out, which is what happened to me this time, then you have to let it cool all the way down, add more fluid, and start all over.

I will say...the first time I drained the pan the fluid was NASTY. Black milkshake. I added 3.5 quarts. Here we are two months later and I drain the pan and the fluid looks pink still. How the hell did 3.5 quarts mixed into 8.5 quarts of dirty fluid result in everything coming from the pan looking clean now?

This job is just a PITA and in hindsight I think the proper thing to do is flush all the fluid out through the cooler lines and replace it all at the same time and be done with it.

 

[Gatafly]

Here is the problem.. the fill plug is way up high. You can only get to it by reaching around the exhaust, and, you can only fill it by using a hand pump. So if the engine is hot you can't add fluid unless you don't care about the skin on your arms.

So the only way I can see to do this job safely at home is to purposefully overfill the pan while the vehicle is cool, then put the fill plug back in. Then warm the trans. to proper temp and pull the check plug.

If nothing comes out, which is what happened to me this time, then you have to let it cool all the way down, add more fluid, and start all over.

I will say...the first time I drained the pan the fluid was NASTY. Black milkshake. I added 3.5 quarts. Here we are two months later and I drain the pan and the fluid looks pink still. How the hell did 3.5 quarts mixed into 8.5 quarts of dirty fluid result in everything coming from the pan looking clean now?

This job is just a PITA and in hindsight I think the proper thing to do is flush all the fluid out through the cooler lines and replace it all at the same time and be done with it.

Thats what I did. Pulled the lines and had the one line dump into a bucket and put a funnel on the other line. Started it up and had my buddy pour new fluid into the return line. When the fluid coming out was the new fluid he stopped pouring in and I shut it down. Then put a rag over the exhaust so I could add fluid to the fill port until it came out the check hole. Fluid was cold so I knew it would be a little too much. Ran it until the temp hit 105 then shut down and pulled the check plug. I think about 1/2 qt or less came out. Drove it a couple days and checked level again. Full fluid exchange took about 30-45 minutes. I think I used a little over 13 qts total because some went back into the bucket and some drained out the check hole. Takes 2 people to do it, but only cost me burgers on the grill and a beer. . . . . and the fluid of course.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Mine does not have the sealed trans but if it did and I was draining the pan I would measure how much I took out and put that much new fluid back in. That should get it back to the factory level assuming there are no leaks.

 

[WXman]

Yeah, assuming the factory filled it properly, which they might not have.

Here's another observation: The updated temperature specs. for checking the fluid are 97-115°F. My assumption is they lowered that threshold to prevent people from getting burned by the fluid but that's just a guess. Anyway... yesterday when I was working on mine the ambient temp was 90°F. So what that means is that even if my vehicle had been sitting shut off all day long, I would almost be inside the range for checking the fluid. All I'd have to do is start the engine, cycle through the gears, and it would instantly have the fluid inside that range.

Just something to think about if you're doing this service in a warm climate.

 

[wadle5]

Yeah, assuming the factory filled it properly, which they might not have.

Here's another observation: The updated temperature specs. for checking the fluid are 97-115°F. My assumption is they lowered that threshold to prevent people from getting burned by the fluid but that's just a guess. Anyway... yesterday when I was working on mine the ambient temp was 90°F. So what that means is that even if my vehicle had been sitting shut off all day long, I would almost be inside the range for checking the fluid. All I'd have to do is start the engine, cycle through the gears, and it would instantly have the fluid inside that range.

Just something to think about if you're doing this service in a warm climate.

Yeah plan on doing it this weekend and getting nervous. First fluid exchange for me. Have my 7 qts of synthetic sitting in my garage.
So if I read right loosen fill plug, pull drain plug, put drain plug back in, fill up to fill plug. Plug diff. Turn on vehicle and cycle through. Then pull fill plug and check level? Seems somewhat easy I just get nervous when dealing with something as vital as my diff fluid

Looks like I"ll need to break out the PB Blaster as well.....

 

[oljedi11950]

Trans service

Just went thru same , almost same miles ,never been done . I knew a guy so got a break but still 239$ took em 1 1/2 hr to do it , I wasn't gonna fug with it 1st time . I don't if you can see my bill they used 17 qts to do the job , a huge improvement , almost don't even notice "the clunk"

 

[wadle5]

Just went thru same , almost same miles ,never been done . I knew a guy so got a break but still 239$ took em 1 1/2 hr to do it , I wasn't gonna fug with it 1st time . I don't if you can see my bill they used 17 qts to do the job , a huge improvement , almost don't even notice "the clunk"

Holy bejesus 17qt?!? Thats worth just having the dealer do it as the fluid is almost $10 a qt?!

 

[oljedi11950]

Yes sir what I said , that was 158.13$ @ 9.33 rip but like I said to f-n hot to mess with it plus trans kit & gasket I'm sure BWInc can comment on these 2 ? But man it shift's so much smoother , no jerks , pauses . I know all the guys that have the where withall to do this know what I'm talking about , worth it to me !

 

[WXman]

Yeah plan on doing it this weekend and getting nervous. First fluid exchange for me. Have my 7 qts of synthetic sitting in my garage.
So if I read right loosen fill plug, pull drain plug, put drain plug back in, fill up to fill plug. Plug diff. Turn on vehicle and cycle through. Then pull fill plug and check level? Seems somewhat easy I just get nervous when dealing with something as vital as my diff fluid

Looks like I"ll need to break out the PB Blaster as well.....

From what I understand, the entire system only holds 12 quarts. And the pan holds 3-4 quarts. So you might not need 7...I'd drain and then fill with 4 quarts and then bring the trans. to warm (not hot) and pull the check plug. If it runs out of the check plug after you cycle from P to 1 slowly then back to P then let it go to a trickle and put the check plug back in.

I put 3 quarts in last night, cycled from P to 1 and to P slowly, pulled the check plug and nothing came out. It's under filled. I will add 2 quarts this evening and try again.

I have noticed my trans. acting odd today.

 

[RPS13]

Yeah, assuming the factory filled it properly, which they might not have.

Here's another observation: The updated temperature specs. for checking the fluid are 97-115°F. My assumption is they lowered that threshold to prevent people from getting burned by the fluid but that's just a guess. Anyway... yesterday when I was working on mine the ambient temp was 90°F. So what that means is that even if my vehicle had been sitting shut off all day long, I would almost be inside the range for checking the fluid. All I'd have to do is start the engine, cycle through the gears, and it would instantly have the fluid inside that range.

Just something to think about if you're doing this service in a warm climate.

97-115 F, that's basically the thing sitting "cold" in my driveway in Houston. That makes it easy to hit the temp range!

 

[RPS13]

Looking at the trans, which is the return side of the cooler? I think I'll try to do the cooler flush method to get the most new fluid in there.

 

[08T4R]

Yeah, assuming the factory filled it properly, which they might not have.

Here's another observation: The updated temperature specs. for checking the fluid are 97-115°F. My assumption is they lowered that threshold to prevent people from getting burned by the fluid but that's just a guess. Anyway... yesterday when I was working on mine the ambient temp was 90°F. So what that means is that even if my vehicle had been sitting shut off all day long, I would almost be inside the range for checking the fluid. All I'd have to do is start the engine, cycle through the gears, and it would instantly have the fluid inside that range.

Just something to think about if you're doing this service in a warm climate.

Where did you find updated temp specs? The fluid will expand with heat, that's the reason it needs to be in a certain range to check the level. Its really easy to do. Park in a level spot, put in check mode. When temp is reached open the overflow. Nothing comes out, add a little til it does. If it overflows then wait for it to trickle and put the plug back in. All done.

 

[JB.]

Where did you find updated temp specs?

See post #2