Sensitive Braking - nose duck, tail swerve

fishnyc22 · Jul 21, 2019

Hey there. A couple of months ago I re-joined the 4runner community buying a 1y year old 2018 SR5. I previously had a 1997 and a 2000. I sold the 2000 a couple of years ago after moving to Colorado from NY and with the east-coast caused rust it would not have made the trek.

Anyway... I love the 2018 (except for the horrific Entune system, awaiting the T9 reviews!). The engine could be a bit more powerful... but I got a great deal on it and it's pretty sweet.

The car has a 3" ReadyLift that was installed by the dealer prior to being sold new to the first owner. I know people have mixed reviews on those kind of lifts, but I don't mind it.

I have one issue I'm trying to figure out. I had to hit the brakes pretty hard one day and I felt like the nose went down and the tail came around a bit. It made me feel a bit sketchy for sure.

It felt like the back brakes maybe aren't doing their job as much as the front brakes.

This is my first car with a lift so maybe this is normal. But wondering if there's a way to improve it.

Or maybe installing in tighter TRD springs may help....
Or maybe I have no idea what talking about (likely).

The brakes are very different from my Highlander (which I just sold). They are a more sensitive for sure and engage a bit later when pressing the brake pedal. I am getting use to it though. Clearly different technology, but wondering if there's a way to improve it and make it less sensitive.

Anyway. That's my story. Hoping you fine folks can help me out. Cheers!

Fish

PS, here's my rig.

<a href="http://fischetti.co/4runner/IMG_0072.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://fischetti.co/4runner/IMG_0072_th.jpg" alt=""></a><a href="http://fischetti.co/4runner/IMG_0246.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://fischetti.co/4runner/IMG_0246_th.jpg" alt=""></a><a href="http://fischetti.co/4runner/IMG_5882.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://fischetti.co/4runner/IMG_5882_th.jpg" alt=""></a>

kernel.panik · Jul 21, 2019

fishnyc22 said:
The car has a 3" ReadyLift that was installed by the dealer prior to being sold new to the first owner. I know people have mixed reviews on those kind of lifts, but I don't mind it.

I have one issue I'm trying to figure out. I had to hit the brakes pretty hard one day and I felt like the nose went down and the tail came around a bit. It made me feel a bit sketchy for sure.

It felt like the back brakes maybe aren't doing their job as much as the front brakes.

I take it the "readylift" is just a spacer lift and not a true lift?
If that is the case, then YES, you'll have a ton of nose dive when braking. I would ditch the spacer lift and go with a real suspension lift for your truck. There are tons of options if you look through the forum. I have the Bilstein 5100 shocks all around. The fronts can be set at 4 different heights up to 2.5 inches in the front and the rear shocks will accommodate up to 2 inches of extra spring height.... all this for about $400 plus installation. First thing I noticed was the stability of the truck increased without the suspension being too stiff.

Factory 4runner suspension is pretty soft and fluffy. Adding the extra height of the spacer lift and the soft suspension is what is making your truck nose dive that much more. If there's a winch in that bumper of yours it will make it worse. Not sure about the back end swerving, maybe doing it if the truck is nose diving too much or the back end is lifting under braking and causing the axle to shift...(panard bar being at a wrong angle because of the lift, etc..)

Good Luck, nice rig, welcome back!

kp

waypoint · Jul 21, 2019

On my 4th gen, this symptom was an early warning sign that I missed...one of the rubber brake hoses on the front end (passenger front) had failed internally and was creating a 1-way valve, keeping the caliper pistons partially pressurized and dragging the brake pads. I didn't catch it until it completely failed after a hard panic stop and destroyed that wheel's pads, rotor, and caliper rubber boots.

The behavior sounds like yours...overly sensitive brakes, and yawing under hard braking especially during rain when the other brakes were getting wet/sprayed.

If you can get an infrared temp gun, check rotor and caliper temps after a normal drive. If you see one rotor/caliper that is significantly hotter than the rest, that's your suspect.

fishnyc22 · Jul 21, 2019

Thank you both for the replies. I really appreciate it.

KP: Yes, the ReadyLift is a spacer lift. I have previous read up suspension lifts. I am not fully following how the suspension lift is only $400+installation. Aren't those kits like $1300?

Waypoint: Interesting. I will try to test that. Thanks for giving me a reason to buy an infrared temp gun

. I did read that someone found an issue with the back brakes needing bleeding helped them engage better and helped with the ducking.

Thanks again for the replies.

fishnyc22 · Jul 21, 2019

This is the lift that I have:

3"F / 2"R SST LIFT KIT - TOYOTA FJ CRUISER / 4RUNNER 2003-2019
ReadyLIFT | FJ Cruiser/4Runner Lift Kit

waypoint · Jul 21, 2019

fishnyc22 said:
Waypoint: Interesting. I will try to test that. Thanks for giving me a reason to buy an infrared temp gun . I did read that someone found an issue with the back brakes needing bleeding helped them engage better and helped with the ducking.

The temp gun will help w/ rear brakes also, the caliper with air in it will show cooler temp at the rotor surface after braking.

Charlievee · Jul 21, 2019

Soft factory springs create crazy nose dive, even under normal conditions. Wait until your sitting at a light, the ac compressor kicks in and you start rolling forward. Drive by wire is so much fun.

Veridian · Jul 21, 2019

I'm still getting used to the breaking on my 2019 4runner, I find the breaking to be really sensitive, coming from a 20 year old dodge durango. What used to be a foot depression point of gentle yet linear breaking expectation, now gets me a rather aggressive breaking, and nose duck. Thankfully no tail swerve though.

fishnyc22 · Jul 21, 2019

Charlievee said:
Soft factory springs create crazy nose dive, even under normal conditions. Wait until your sitting at a light, the ac compressor kicks in and you start rolling forward. Drive by wire is so much fun.

Thanks for the reply Charlievee. I had read that using TRD springs can help tighten things up a bit. Seems like the least expensive option. But maybe it's not going to be the best route to go here. Hoping for the best cost effective solution.

Deep_palancar · Jul 21, 2019

After any lift that changes the front->rear angle you need to perform a Zero Point calibration. Assume that it was not done in conjunction with your current lift.

Re-setting the vehicles electronic 'Level bubble' really makes a big difference in the reaction of the VSC and ABS.

There are plenty of threads on this forum with instructions for this DIY.

Here is one.

LandCruiser · Jul 21, 2019

You have a crap dealer lift.

You will not be satisfied until you have a proper (read: non-spacer) lift installed by a professional shop.

Attempting to half-ass it spending a few hundred bucks here and there will just be a waste of time and money.

mteolus · Jul 22, 2019

The brakes are my biggest complaint in my 2017. If you are in rush hour traffic and you need to stop pretty fast but not really fast, you can't, the brakes just grab. Then when you let off it lets off too much. Dangerous in my opinion but that's just something you'll have to live with and get used to.

And as others have said, I would loose the spacer lift and get a real suspension lift.

Toffees · Jul 22, 2019

fishnyc22 said:
Thank you both for the replies. I really appreciate it.

KP: Yes, the ReadyLift is a spacer lift. I have previous read up suspension lifts. I am not fully following how the suspension lift is only $400+installation. Aren't those kits like $1300?

Waypoint: Interesting. I will try to test that. Thanks for giving me a reason to buy an infrared temp gun . I did read that someone found an issue with the back brakes needing bleeding helped them engage better and helped with the ducking.

Thanks again for the replies.

Maybe stating the obvious, but a spacer lift works by reducing suspension travel--so by default you should expect *worse* handling with spacers than without. That's before you factor in the changed geometry, etc.

I would ditch the spacers entirely and run stock until you decide your next option. Your rig won't look as nice, but if it really handles that poorly, you won't miss it if you swap ends once.

Stephencovar · Jul 22, 2019

I am going to recommend the Eibach Pro Truck Lift Kit (Stage 1). It as practically eliminated the nose dive when braking and my rig handles so much better. I am able to drive with more confidence. I live in LA myself and I do 90-95% of my driving on LA roads with the other 5-10% off road. You get a 2.75" life up front and a 1" lift in the rear. It comes with shocks and springs for the front and back They're located in Corona and will do the install for you!

Stephencovar · Jul 22, 2019

Here, check out this thread. I am telling you, this is by far the best thing I've done to my rig so far. There's a picture of my rig in there somewhere towards the end.

Eibach Pro-truck lift

Compromised4Runner · Jul 22, 2019

[MENTION=8505]fishnyc22[/MENTION]

People on here advising to just ditch the spacers and go back to stock aren't looking at your tires... From the pics, they look bigger than the stock 265/70/17. So if you go back to stock height, those tires are going to rub!

When you decide to get rid of the spacer lift, have your "proper" lift done at the same time.

azflyfisher · Jul 22, 2019

fishnyc22 said:
This is the lift that I have:

3"F / 2"R SST LIFT KIT - TOYOTA FJ CRUISER / 4RUNNER 2003-2019
ReadyLIFT | FJ Cruiser/4Runner Lift Kit

I had that exact same lift, and my brakes worked exactly like you describe. I did get used to them pretty quickly however. Just had to tweak driving habits a bit. Anyhow, once black friday rolled around, I was able to get an Icon Stage 2 lift with SPC uppers for a good deal, and the brake problems are gone. No more dive.

kenwilliams0803 · Jul 22, 2019

I put Akebono pads on the front of mine and it brakes almost like a normal vehicle now. Much more progressive.

fishnyc22 · Jul 22, 2019

Thank you all for the replies and feedback. I definitely want to keep the lift. Not going back to stock height as I really like the look and I live in an area where the lift will be very fun and functional to have. I am definitely open to removing the spacers and getting a real lift. Can't go crazy with something too expensive.

I'm a bit confused as to what I actually need for a full kit. Earlier in the thread kernel.panik replied about Blitzen 5100s for $400. But thats just the shocks. Don't I need a full kit with springs such as

TTHA-CK-RCC - 3" Lift W/ Bilstein 5100 Front Coilovers (FJ/4Runner/GX)

or

TTBOSS-4R210 - ToyTec BOSS Suspension System for 10+ 4Runner and GX460

The price of those are a bit out of my price range right now. Can you guys help me understand what needs to be done so I can wrap my head around what I need.

thank you again. Appreciate you helping a noob.

Charlievee · Jul 22, 2019

This is what i run and cant be happier.
E80-82-071-01-22-KIT - Eibach Pro Truck Lift System (Stage 1) - 10+4Runner

You may just want to remove the spacers and see what that does for you.

Sensitive Braking - nose duck, tail swerve

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