Severe Frame Rust is Not Acceptable

[BillIam]

makes me wanna detail mine tomorrow, but the OP did have it at that same toyota dealership "one year prior" to the recent inspection. and it was "ok at this time" checked off on the under vehicle inspection then i would be kind of pissed off myself.. i mean toyota is buying back all those older tacomas, i would have pressed Toyota US for a reasonable trade in value on a new one..

 

[Doc2012]

Chronicled my severe frame rust at Home Page since it became really dangerous, Toyota never warned me (even though they inspected the vehicle during service). Totally unacceptable that it killed my car at 101,872 miles. Just lucky it didn't kill someone. Toyota needs to accept this as a problem, it's not 1960 anymore --- frames do not need to rot like this.

Getting the word out. Let me know if you have stories or resources.

www.deadrunner.org

First off, that is NOT "chronicling" the rust.

You should've taken pics from the day you bought it.

It's your own damn fault. Should've gotten UNDER the truck more often, and not been so lazy to have other people do it yourself.

 

[tee-bone]

I am in a sort of middle ground here. On the one hand, these trucks are what, 11-17 years old now? And for the most part they are rock solid.

On the other had, that rock solid reliability is exactly why we buy Toyotas. It is also why we paid a premium for them - both when they were new and if we bought it on the resale market.

I also believe that while yes, we have responsibility to understand what salt does and to wash off the undercarriage, most of the rot I've seen has been from the inside of the frame members. Not sure a wash is going to fix that. It does not seem like that is designed to the standards that we expect (and pay for) of Toyota. Or that they didn't do a good enough job at remediation, either through TSBs that actually get the dealer to check it thoroughly, or something equivalent to POR installed inside the rails, or a whole drilled to let fluid drain - or whatever it would take.

Also keep in mind that it is not just enthusiast car guys who buy these. Picture this conversation: "Gee Mom, I know you took it to the dealer for an inspection a year ago and they said that it was fine, but this is your fault. If you weren't too lazy to get under there and inspect it yourself, this wouldn't have happened. Oh, and did you finish my laundry?"

So is it, as the OP claims, "unacceptable"? No, I don't think so. While I believe Toyota could have done a better job here I don't think it is something they should be compensating owners for at this point. But do I think this is 100% the owner's fault? No, for the reasons I state above.

Done - fire away, I can take it.

 

[Lowriderman234]

"Well maintained and kept in a garage" ...sounds BS to me.

 

[bandman659]

My 2000 is at 217k miles with zero frame rust, but that's mostly because I'm in Georgia and not the Rust Belt. There's a reason your part of the country has that nickname and it's why you should pretty much expect every car to return from whence it came unless you never take it out in the winter or are really on top of keeping the underside clean. I've seen a 2004 Subaru Impreza owned by a guy in Canada that had to replace the rear subframe because it was rusted beyond repair. The fault there lay with the previous owner, but since you owned yours from new, the only direction you can point your finger is back at yourself. Maybe the frames are a bit more susceptible to rust than some other trucks, but you can bet that if you don't keep the underside clean, any other truck wouldn't be far behind that for frame rust.

We bought our 4Runner with 78k miles on it in June 2006 and in the time we've had it, I've spent $420 on it for repairs that weren't wear items. $120 for a new MAF and $300 for a used axle when either the front or rear pinion bearing went south on the original diff. It's like it was hewn from a solid block of granite.

 

[mikebontoft]

Unfortunately this happens far too often. People expect to just get an oil change and a rotation and everything else is good. The responsibility to understand just what all goes into a major purchase like a car or a home falls on the buyer... but you get someone that doesn't understand much more than that and this is the result. If you spent half a much time just taking a peek under the hood and under the car as you did on this blog, I think your daughter would be driving that thing.

Too many people take cars lightly. This is why you see overloaded minivans with donut spares on all four sides... and people wondering why they went off the side of a cliff.

 

[rjaudi]

My 4runner was from MD and had some winters with snow and salt. My dad is not dumb to vehicle maintenance and would wash it frequently during the winter. My 4runner has had slight frame perforation to the rail near the muffler. Am I upset? No, the car is 16 plus years old and I spent a couple hundred bucks and some elbow grease to repair any issues under the car. I should be good for years to come.

 

[Stick Figure]

"Well maintained and kept in a garage" ...sounds BS to me.

I've actually heard garage kept is worse for salt. My dad bought a Chevy truck new in 89, we junked it with around 120k miles on it because the entire truck was covered in rust down to the point that i could lean into the bedside with a screwdriver and go straight through it. Frame wasn't far behind that. It was always garage kept. The problem is that the warm garage melts the snow and salt mix and allows it to eat into the vehicle. When its still frozen it can't do as much damage. When I was in the midwest I knew enough to buy a winter beater every year and even that got washed and then hit w/ the spray on wax usually twice a week at minimum.

 

[t4r4life]

So after reading his post I've concluded that OP is a moron.

 

[Singtoe]

Look at all this frame rot - 99 limited

Love living in the south. No rust, no frozen bolts and no broken shock mounts .

I remember (when I was a Yankee) that most dealerships sold a rust preventative undercoating. I am sure that when that if it was applied, the damage would have not been so severe.

 

[Lowriderman234]

warm garage melts the snow and salt mix and allows it to eat into the vehicle.

Just learned something new... :thanks: Good thing I don't store my cars in the garage after its been driven on those roads with salt applied.

 

[white_n_slow]

Wrong, you must have not much work with rotted frames, I've looked at many land rovers I could stick my hand through the frame in most of it and it was far beyond a state of repair despite the fact that it was still holding the vehicle up.

I think it all depends on your dedication to the vehicle and your fabrication skills. I have seen a complete frame rebuild on a truck that had sentimental value and a frame that consisted of more mud and debris than actual steel.

 

[deadrunner.org]

I did personally care for it

I did wash often, including using hand sprayer under the vehicle, wheel wells, etc... Fine, don't believe me then look at the condition of the exterior and interior of the truck. And look at the other areas under the truck. The frame rotted from the inside out, or so it appeared. I posted those pics too. Sanctimonious reply is, of course, yours to post.

I don't service, fix, or extend trucks. So I did take the extra step of periodically asking Toyota to inspect it for safety and under carriage and other problems --- like they did last year when replacing the rear seal in the vehicle. Tansky Toyota came back with no problems. And I posted that inspection.

I'm glad for you that you've been fortunate. But I've owned other cars that did better. I expect better from Toyota. Like the Tacoma, they seem to be hiding from the problem.

 

[deadrunner.org]

Those who looked at it said, too difficult to fix. Interestingly enough multiple parties said the frames all go on gas tank side first.

 

[Hepar]

I don't service, fix, or extend trucks. So I did take the extra step of periodically asking Toyota to inspect it for safety and under carriage and other problems --- like they did last year when replacing the rear seal in the vehicle. Tansky Toyota came back with no problems. And I posted that inspection.

I will agree with this part of it. If you had it regularly inspected, then I do feel like they should have informed you to any potential problems they may see. I know that if you asked all of my friends, probably less than half would say they know what the condition of the underside of their vehicles looks like. What infuriates me are those who take advantage of that and sell vehicles from rusty areas in areas without rust issues, knowing people won't check.

If there was negligence on any party, I would put some of it on the dealership itself and not with Toyota.

 

[deadrunner.org]

I can appreciate the stories of 4runners lasting 200k miles, good for you. I can't attest to the situation with every 4runner only mine and how badly it turned out. My belief is this is just like the Tacoma where there is a latent defect for that year and Toyota is hoping to ignore it.

Reasonable reactions from this type of crowd --- did I wash the exterior and underbody often because I live in Ohio and we have snow? --- yes I did (personally I think the photos of the great body condition demonstrate that but believe what you will). Did I do more than oil changes and hope --- yes, I followed the maintenance schedule because I'd planned to have the car a long time (and had repairs that were done). Did I inspect it regularly --- yes, but I requested Toyota do it while they were doing various service believing they'd be better at it than me (in my story I stopped at Midas when the car started shaking because they were the closest place ... the Toyota dealer was another 5 miles away and I was worried going even that far. All they did was look and say "yeah, you're done".).

Did I get 100k ? Yes --- 101,872 to be exact. Although it appears this vehicle became a danger to me and others sometime in the last year, so in the 90k mile range.

I realize I'm not going to get much sympathy from a crowd that's capable of just installing a new frame. Maybe I just lost the Toyota 4Runner lottery with the model year having a defect but I expected better from a Toyota product. The dealer threatened to start charging me fees for it sitting on their lot while I sorted out a direction, so I sold it at a loss and moved on.

For me, the Toyota experience was not the durability I expected and I'm no longer their customer. I'm not trying to hold Toyota accountable for wearing paint, brake rotors, a radiator hole, or even the rear seal failing --- that stuff happens in the life of a car. But a frame having a defect such that it dissolves in 90k miles --- yeah, I have a problem with that.

 

[woodro]

I also had frame rot prob on my 99 limited , po epoxied the frame rot then under coated the complete undercarriage so I did not see it when I purchased the truck . I cut the rot out and welded new steel in , a lot of work but its now like new .
I have had a lot of trucks and lived in New York my whole life . I also own a 91 Toyota pickup that my father bought new and the frame is perfect . I had a 77 blazer that never had any special care and was driven on the beach and when I sold it it the frame was perfect .but I have a 99 4 runner that the frame was rotted completely . I'm sorry but I have a problem with that .rear diffs that rust so bad that they leak is crazy !
I love toyota but they have problems with their frames ! If you want proof of that I will post pics of the stacks of frames behind my local dealership from Tacoma's and tundras ! And don't try to tell me it's a isolated problem .
My frame rotted from the inside out so tell me how washing the down the undercarriage of the truck would have stopped it ?
Did I cry about my frame ? No did I try to call Toyota ? No I just fixed it and will keep a eye on it .

 

[gotopless]

I'm with woodro on this one. [MENTION=88189]woodro[/MENTION] you and I both had to go through the same thing

 

[Hepar]

I can appreciate the stories of 4runners lasting 200k miles, good for you. I can't attest to the situation with every 4runner only mine and how badly it turned out. My belief is this is just like the Tacoma where there is a latent defect for that year and Toyota is hoping to ignore it.

Reasonable reactions from this type of crowd --- did I wash the exterior and underbody often because I live in Ohio and we have snow? --- yes I did (personally I think the photos of the great body condition demonstrate that but believe what you will). Did I do more than oil changes and hope --- yes, I followed the maintenance schedule because I'd planned to have the car a long time (and had repairs that were done). Did I inspect it regularly --- yes, but I requested Toyota do it while they were doing various service believing they'd be better at it than me (in my story I stopped at Midas when the car started shaking because they were the closest place ... the Toyota dealer was another 5 miles away and I was worried going even that far. All they did was look and say "yeah, you're done".).

Did I get 100k ? Yes --- 101,872 to be exact. Although it appears this vehicle became a danger to me and others sometime in the last year, so in the 90k mile range.

I realize I'm not going to get much sympathy from a crowd that's capable of just installing a new frame. Maybe I just lost the Toyota 4Runner lottery with the model year having a defect but I expected better from a Toyota product. The dealer threatened to start charging me fees for it sitting on their lot while I sorted out a direction, so I sold it at a loss and moved on.

For me, the Toyota experience was not the durability I expected and I'm no longer their customer. I'm not trying to hold Toyota accountable for wearing paint, brake rotors, a radiator hole, or even the rear seal failing --- that stuff happens in the life of a car. But a frame having a defect such that it dissolves in 90k miles --- yeah, I have a problem with that.

Sorry, but here's where you lost me. There's no way that rust just showed up instantly. Even if it's from the inside. If you were as diligent as you said and checked the frame regularly, then you would have seen signs that rust may be an issue. I would like to see some pics of your rear diff housing. I bet it showed signs of rust as well.

 

[woodro]

Frames rotting completely out , rear diff rusting to the point there is no metal left and fluid leaks out . Any body that thinks this should happen on a 12 year old truck because it wasn't washed all the time is nuts or has never lived cold climates with harsh winters . For work I had a 96 ford f350 that was also used for plowing snow and had a salt sander on the back , never washed the undercarriage and it looks 1000 times better than my 4runner !