Shut down.......

[00Sebby]

If I picked a side the dems are to blame on this one. DACA takes a back seat to the legal residents and the needs of people here the right way. When did the word illegal mean anything but wrong? I get it families can be torn apart, but they did the wrong thing.

Brother, I hear yeah. And I don't disagree. But it's not as simple as they're 'illegals' and we're not. This is really complicated and people's lives I think are legit in the balance here. Nut to just say what you did above, and leave it at that I think does a great disservice to the problem.

I may sound and actually be a bit callous here, but breaking the law has consequences for almost every situation except for, some reason, illegal immigration. As for the families and children that will pay a price if all of a sudden they are held accountable to the law, that may be the case. However, it happens everyday. Poor decision-making by parents and breaking laws affect families and children all the time. A dad drunk-drives and kills someone, he is likely going to jail regardless of the impact on his family. Meth and pill heads, white caller crime, whatever the bad decision, families are impacted. People come into the country illegally, they should never feel comfortable or have the expectation that everything is going to be great. Only the people coming in through legal channels should have that security.

 

[simple]

I may sound and actually be a bit callous here, but breaking the law has consequences for almost every situation except for, some reason, illegal immigration. As for the families and children that will pay a price if all of a sudden they are held accountable to the law, that may be the case. However, it happens everyday. Poor decision-making by parents and breaking laws affect families and children all the time. A dad drunk-drives and kills someone, he is likely going to jail regardless of the impact on his family. Meth and pill heads, white caller crime, whatever the bad decision, families are impacted. People come into the country illegally, they should never feel comfortable or have the expectation that everything is going to be great. Only the people coming in through legal channels should have that security.

It’s hard to argue with the breaking the law. Makes sense to me. But when you break it down, it gets complicated. In your example of drunk driving, that’s true, but the children aren’t left in the cold, or deported. They still have their life with the mother, or become a ward of the state. It’s also a little bit apples to oranges. The police aren’t going to come arrest you and your family because they got a tip you drunk drove 15yrs ago.

Additionally, I 100% agree that people should be coming in legally. But the legal immigration system is broken. It’s probably the only thing worse than the mother****ing DMV (atleast in CA). You’re talking in the excess of 6yrs to get a visa. If you’re a parent that wants your child to have a better life, it’s easier to give them that life and assimilate them if you bring over a 5yr old not a 12yr old. Not to mention the President’s new merit based system that he wants to implement. There’s TENS of MILLIONS of Americans that wouldn’t come close to qualifying.

Fortune favors the bold. Sometimes if you want something, you have to seize it. I’m not condoning illegal immigration, but I am acknowledging that for many, it’s the only option. DACA to me, is the most puzzling immigration program to go after because these are people that came over illegally and when given the option, said ‘Yes, Uncle Sam, I’m here and I want to try for my American Dream’. DACA recipients are working or are in school. Which means they pay taxes and contribute to society. I saw a figure that said DACA recipients payed over 2Bil in taxes, and they don’t qualify for some gov programs such as Medicare or Obamacare. DACA recipients aren’t MS-13, they’re not drug runners, they’re not *******s. They’re people who didn’t have the fortune in their life that they wanted and made a choice. And when given the opportunity to make it right, they took it.

I would also argue that President Trump or his base wouldn’t have a clue a program like DACA existed if it didn’t have the name Obama on it. I had no idea until the President said, ‘wtf is this, cancel it’.

 

[Hepar]

Republicans? Really? Huh, looks like more DemocRAT BS to me.......

When you've got the majority, those 5 votes carry far more weight than those 44.

 

[Bodhi327]

Illegal is illegal

It needs to be fixed, but they are all separate issues. Hate when it’s lumped together. But that’s the logic of the leverage game. We are all immigrants to this country. Somewhere along the way we lost control of it along with just about everything else. It’s just nice to see these problems being mentioned instead of just pushed aside. There will be a daca deal and a wall.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

When you've got the majority, those 5 votes carry far more weight than those 44.

Just more brain dead liberals trying to blame republicans as always. Nothing new, no one listens to liberals anymore anyway. After throwing temper tantrums, looting, crying like little *****es after the election, the world saw them for their true colors. Nothing but a bunch of pussified, anti American, self entitled, cowards.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

It needs to be fixed, but they are all separate issues. Hate when it’s lumped together. But that’s the logic of the leverage game. We are all immigrants to this country. Somewhere along the way we lost control of it along with just about everything else. It’s just nice to see these problems being mentioned instead of just pushed aside. There will be a daca deal and a wall.

Friend of mine brought a very valid point that I had not thought of. Trump said he wants a wall, he never said what kind of wall. Block wall, human wall, guard towers....... There is a very simple and not nearly as costly solution to the problem of border jumpers. Set up guard towers (only cost and employing the American people) and have AMERICAN people volunteer. We use our weapons, our ammo, our time, and secure our borders. The line of volunteer's will be out the door and the issue will be resolved. No 2nd chances, no being deported a dozen times, just one shot, one kill. Maybe then these people will think twice. If not, that's ok, vultures need to eat too.

 

[simple]

Friend of mine brought a very valid point that I had not thought of. Trump said he wants a wall, he never said what kind of wall. Block wall, human wall, guard towers....... There is a very simple and not nearly as costly solution to the problem of border jumpers. Set up guard towers (only cost and employing the American people) and have AMERICAN people volunteer. We use our weapons, our ammo, our time, and secure our borders. The line of volunteer's will be out the door and the issue will be resolved. No 2nd chances, no being deported a dozen times, just one shot, one kill. Maybe then these people will think twice. If not, that's ok, vultures need to eat too.

Jimminy Christmas, dude. Why don't you leave Maryland and join the Border Patrol. I'm sure there's a ton of slots open in Laredo for you. Or will you leave that to the tens of thousands of other, mostly notional, Americans who will volunteer their lives, free of charge, to man guard towers along the 2000 mile border?

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

Jimminy Christmas, dude. Why don't you leave Maryland and join the Border Patrol. I'm sure there's a ton of slots open in Laredo for you. Or will you leave that to the tens of thousands of other, mostly notional, Americans who will volunteer their lives, free of charge, to man guard towers along the 2000 mile border?

So are you saying you are all for open borders and you support illegals and feel they have rights?

I fully intend to leave MD, way too many brain dead liberals here, just like Cali. One of the big reasons I left NY, working my way down south with my job. I'm MORE than happy to donate my time and ammo to secure the AMERICAN border. Can you say the same?

Illegals have ZERO rights, do nothing for this country, and need to be removed by any and all means. Do your homework, sanctuary cities tell the story, no one can argue that no matter what side you're on. Now, I do 100% support anyone from anywhere that wants to make a fetter life for their family. Come here LEGALLY, work ON THE BOOKS and pay taxes just like the rest of us. Don't expect American to turn into Mexico, don't expect us to learn Spanish for you either. Come here, become an American, I completely support and respect that. Come here illegally and it's a totally different story.

 

[ndcent]

Illegal border crossings are at a 40 year low.

Mexico’s paying for it.

401k.

 

[Bodhi327]

I hear ya

But to get a daca deal wall of some sort is what it will take. Our government spending our money.

 

[MN4runnerman]

Friend of mine brought a very valid point that I had not thought of. Trump said he wants a wall, he never said what kind of wall. Block wall, human wall, guard towers....... There is a very simple and not nearly as costly solution to the problem of border jumpers. Set up guard towers (only cost and employing the American people) and have AMERICAN people volunteer. We use our weapons, our ammo, our time, and secure our borders. The line of volunteer's will be out the door and the issue will be resolved. No 2nd chances, no being deported a dozen times, just one shot, one kill. Maybe then these people will think twice. If not, that's ok, vultures need to eat too.

Yeah let’s not condone killing of people. These are people your talking about whether they are a citizen of this country or not. They deserve human rights. And there are human rights laws on the book that you’d be breaking.

Full disclosure I voted for trump. Also how does your statement pertain to anything about the government shutdown?

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

Yeah let’s not condone killing of people. These are people your talking about whether they are a citizen of this country or not. They deserve human rights. And there are human rights laws on the book that you’d be breaking.

Full disclosure I voted for trump. Also how does your statement pertain to anything about the government shutdown?

Part of the govt shutdown is due to the "rights" of illegals, ALL illegals not just Spanish, which is funny because they have none when they cross the border ILLEGALLY. I have zero issue with shooting illegals crossing the border, it happens already if you didn't know. Maybe if it happened more, they would start to think twice. Now as stated above, I have absolutely no problem with legal immigration and making a better life for yourself and your family. Come here legally, don't mooch off the system, don't expect America to turn into mexico and speak Spanish, and I will welcome you with open arms. That honestly goes for anyone from anywhere in the world,

In terms of voting for Trump, you and me both. I think even those of us that voted for him though can agree it was not because we love him, it was the lesser evil. No Clinton should ever hold office, no liberal at all for that matter. Trump was the lesser evil but not really a step ahead, more a step sideways. He's a fool, he's a child, he does care about America and our constitutional rights though. I love that he is not for open borders, I hate that he's such a child and makes such stupid comments. So far he's done some good, more good than Obama ever did so we'll see how it plays out.

 

[MN4runnerman]

Part of the govt shutdown is due to the "rights" of illegals, ALL illegals not just Spanish, which is funny because they have none when they cross the border ILLEGALLY. I have zero issue with shooting illegals crossing the border, it happens already if you didn't know. Maybe if it happened more, they would start to think twice. Now as stated above, I have absolutely no problem with legal immigration and making a better life for yourself and your family. Come here legally, don't mooch off the system, don't expect America to turn into mexico and speak Spanish, and I will welcome you with open arms. That honestly goes for anyone from anywhere in the world,

In terms of voting for Trump, you and me both. I think even those of us that voted for him though can agree it was not because we love him, it was the lesser evil. No Clinton should ever hold office, no liberal at all for that matter. Trump was the lesser evil but not really a step ahead, more a step sideways. He's a fool, he's a child, he does care about America and our constitutional rights though. I love that he is not for open borders, I hate that he's such a child and makes such stupid comments. So far he's done some good, more good than Obama ever did so we'll see how it plays out.

Yes I realize that border patrol agents do have to shoot people who cross the border illegally. In most cases those people are criminals. But look at the other picture, there are families who cross too. Should they be shot or helped? I agree that what they did is a crime but another crime is not making it easier to legally immigrate into this country. I don’t want the system to be so easy that anyone can just apply and be accepted but you have to admit that while some are criminals, most are people like you and me who want to better themselves and they can only do that here in the US. If they cross illegally and want to be here then we as country should help them. We can’t kick these people out who want to be here because they are willing to do the jobs no one else will.

 

[4Reak Show]

Hey [MENTION=153213]2016 4Runner SR5[/MENTION] how do you really feel?? Holy moly. You realize that being as far to one side as you most CERTAINLY are is equally as unhealthy for everyone as being Team Blue right? Pump your brakes a bit.

And your theory of a line of volunteers is just incorrect... Because there would be a line right now if you were so correct. Get a grip on reality homeboy. This is why the world hates America: they think we all want to use brute force to impose our will because of our arrogance.

 

[Hepar]

Just more brain dead liberals trying to blame republicans as always. Nothing new, no one listens to liberals anymore anyway. After throwing temper tantrums, looting, crying like little *****es after the election, the world saw them for their true colors. Nothing but a bunch of pussified, anti American, self entitled, cowards.

Hmmmm. I believe it was you who was blaming democrats. I didn't blame anyone at all. I was just pointing out the flaw in that picture. That with the need for 60 votes for passing, any strays on your own "side" with the majority has larger impacts than the ones you know are going to always vote against.

But, that's just with my dead brain.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

Hmmmm. I believe it was you who was blaming democrats. I didn't blame anyone at all. I was just pointing out the flaw in that picture. That with the need for 60 votes for passing, any strays on your own "side" with the majority has larger impacts than the ones you know are going to always vote against.

But, that's just with my dead brain.

You're right, I did blame dems. Dems are trying to blame republican's which is just their nature. Either way, both sides always play the blame game but this one is pretty cut and dry.

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

Hey [MENTION=153213]2016 4Runner SR5[/MENTION] how do you really feel?? Holy moly. You realize that being as far to one side as you most CERTAINLY are is equally as unhealthy for everyone as being Team Blue right? Pump your brakes a bit.

And your theory of a line of volunteers is just incorrect... Because there would be a line right now if you were so correct. Get a grip on reality homeboy. This is why the world hates America: they think we all want to use brute force to impose our will because of our arrogance.

I can tell you with 100% confidence, if there was a volunteer petition to sign, there would be a line out the door. Believe me on that one, there is absolutely no doubt. The world has hated America for a long time and that's by no means the fault of any one single party. It's because in general, America makes everyone else's battles their problem and doesn't know how to keep it's nose out of anything. For instance, who the hell cares how any other country treats their people? We have so many issues here, in so much financial debt, yet we keep aiding other countries....... Lets fix our own before we stick our nose into other peoples issues. Nigeria is a shithole, yes it is, arab countries treat their people light shit, yep, so what, is it our problem, no it's not. Never was and never should be, move on, worry about America first for once.

 

[4Reak Show]

I can tell you with 100% confidence, if there was a volunteer petition to sign, there would be a line out the door. Believe me on that one, there is absolutely no doubt. The world has hated America for a long time and that's by no means the fault of any one single party. It's because in general, America makes everyone else's battles their problem and doesn't know how to keep it's nose out of anything. For instance, who the hell cares how any other country treats their people? We have so many issues here, in so much financial debt, yet we keep aiding other countries....... Lets fix our own before we stick our nose into other peoples issues. Nigeria is a shithole, yes it is, arab countries treat their people light shit, yep, so what, is it our problem, no it's not. Never was and never should be, move on, worry about America first for once.

While I agree with your general premise and what your ultimate goal is, your theory has a couple flaws:

1) if an army of border-guarding murderous volunteers are so willing... Then why isn't anyone at the border right now? What's stopping them? The fact that it's illegal I suppose? I'm actually asking why people like you whom you claim are a-plenty and would gladly love to go stand at the border for days on end for FREE (volunteer right?) are not actually going there as we speak. Probably because it's a little unrealistic.

2) lets play the numbers: 2,000 miles of border at 5,280 feet per mile = 10,560,000 feet of border. How many feet between each person in this wall of volunteers? 100? ok so that's 105,600 people who need to be standing guard 24 hours a day, in the desert for free, with a lethal force license. Oh wait, 24 hours isn't realistic right? Ok so let's say 8 hour shifts. That's now 316,000 people. I don't know about you but I don't have 8 hours to spare. Much less 8 UNPAID hours to spare every day. Realistically, maybe 2 hours a day huh? Ok so now we're at 1,200,000 people if we all take 2 hour shifts every day, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

3) let's say there actually is 300,000-1,000,000 people willing to stand guard in the desert for free 24/7/365. Who decides to let these folks have a license to kill? Who does the vetting process and weeds out felons or undercover cartel agents or people who can be bribed? That process takes time and money. Remember you're suggesting we allow random humans to stand in the desert and shoot anyone that tries to run pass them with lethal force, for free.

4) alright, so we've now found this 1,200,000 volunteers who are sane enough to know right from wrong yadda yadda and they are expected to leave their homes from let's say a random place like Maryland and now afford to live on a zero dollar salary in the desert? Although ironically by doing this, Trumps wall would create 1,200,000 jobs from the volunteers leaving their current job to volunteer for murder. So there's that positive spin.

It's just unrealistic. Sounds good on paper and overall your intentions are good for what your goal is, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[1engineer]

Hey [MENTION=153213]2016 4Runner SR5[/MENTION] how do you really feel?? Holy moly. You realize that being as far to one side as you most CERTAINLY are is equally as unhealthy for everyone as being Team Blue right? Pump your brakes a bit.

And your theory of a line of volunteers is just incorrect... Because there would be a line right now if you were so correct. Get a grip on reality homeboy. This is why the world hates America: they think we all want to use brute force to impose our will because of our arrogance.

While countries may hate America, apparently the people of the world do not. Look up the number of people who immigrate (legally) to the US each year. Yep, we win by a big margin. Logic says if the people hated us, they wouldn't want to be here.

 

[TSGT4R]

Totally in the hands of the Republicans! Chuck and Nancy have given too much up already in the name of compromise.