Snowflake Symbol

[HB 4X4]

So I was just curious. Does the Snowflake symbol on some tires actually help sales? I know the symbol is meaningless since all they have to do is pay for the rights to print the symbol. Some companies simply do not care about it, but does this have any real purpose other than a nice silver lining for marketing?

BFG AT KO for example, is alright in snow for the first few thousand miles, but after that it's like walking onto an ice rink with your bare feet. So what's the point in paying $$ for a symbol, when they could put that money in actually helping their design for better traction?

Has anyone had positive experiences with snow traction from a tire that has the snowflake symbol?

 

[icantsee]

It's just all marketing technique.

It's like when you see oranges at a supermarket, one has a sunkist sticker & the others don't...take off the sticker & they're all the same.

When I use to work at Wheel Works...I just listen to the customer, seeing what they will be doing.

Some just wanted cheap tires, because they are selling the vehicle & have (4) tires that are new AND matches will help w/ their sale.

 

[HB 4X4]

It's just all marketing technique.

It's like when you see oranges at a supermarket, one has a sunkist sticker & the others don't...take off the sticker & they're all the same.

When I use to work at Wheel Works...I just listen to the customer, seeing what they will be doing.

Some just wanted cheap tires, because they are selling the vehicle & have (4) tires that are new AND matches will help w/ their sale.

That's what I figured. However, some members on here, who I will not mention, value the symbol very highly, so I was hoping to get their inputs on this.

I almost feel like it's being misleading to the buyer. Someone who doesn't know a whole lot about tires might buy one because of the "better snow traction" and find out that they have worse traction in snow than any other brand that they could have chosen.

 

[MikesToy]

It's just all marketing technique.

It's like when you see oranges at a supermarket, one has a sunkist sticker & the others don't...take off the sticker & they're all the same.

:lmao:

 

[CJ3Flyr]

That's what I figured. However, some members on here, who I will not mention, value the symbol very highly, so I was hoping to get their inputs on this.

I almost feel like it's being misleading to the buyer. Someone who doesn't know a whole lot about tires might buy one because of the "better snow traction" and find out that they have worse traction in snow than any other brand that they could have chosen.

Doesn't it boil down to ignorance and the government (as usual)?:upset: The good performing snow tires may or may not have the flake. The government run chain inspection stations in some places don't care, all they know about is the flake. God forbid that common sense and capability win over bureaucracy and the lobbyists for the snowflake people. :bash:

A certain percentage of the snowflake tires employ some incredible technology for maintaining traction in the very cold and icy conditions, others do not. I believe in pure snowtires for those that need/want them or those who run in very cold temps. I also accept that in places like Commyfornia you must have your proper documents/stamps to get by the inspections stations and it has little to do with what's right.

Bottom line is I think everbody is right (those who say it's a 'must' and those who say it's 'no big deal'). I think it's no different than any other tire choice, it's a matter of location and personal taste.
:cheers:


:cheers:

 

[jharris2]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=21210

Moving thread to appropriate forum.

 

[Thai]

You guys are pretty funny. I wish that a few of us would do more research instead of making wild speculations! :

Recently, a member (p nut) noted how superior the BFG AT KO were in the snow vs. Nitto Terra Grappler...on two equivalent vehicle under the same conditions at the same time.

Do most (if not all) snow tires have the snowflake symbol? Yupe. Although it may be marketing to those tires that do qualify, it is still a standard that some tires do not meet. For most (if not all) tire companies, paying a few $$ to see if their tire qualify for the symbol is like pissing in the ocean for them. In other words, IF a tire does qualify for the symbol, then i am 100% sure that any tire company would jump for it...it's good for business and it's relatively cheap to have the tire tested. Why would you think otherwise??

This symbol is recognized WORLDWIDE, not just in US and Canada!! WORLDWIDE.

Josh, do your research carefully. Remember, everyone has a story to tell about tires. This is why i appreciate the snowflake symbol...it is a standard that all tires with this symbol must pass. Does this symbol gaurantee that a tire with it is the best?? No. But, it gives me peace of mind that this tire has pass at least some control testing to assure that it is not a bad tire in the snow.

 

[Thai]

I almost feel like it's being misleading to the buyer. Someone who doesn't know a whole lot about tires might buy one because of the "better snow traction" and find out that they have worse traction in snow than any other brand that they could have chosen.

You mean...someone like YOU?!! Lets see...you bought a tire that some (including me) recommended against based on your useage. You bought a tire that many of us (including me) recommended against due to the load rating. Hmmm, now, you are in the tire market again shortly after finding out the shortcomings of your recent purchase.

Things that make you go...HMMMMM.

 

[Thai]

So what's the point in paying $$ for a symbol, when they could put that money in actually helping their design for better traction?

Are we talking about Nitto TG vs. BFG AT KO?? If you think the price difference between the two tire is simply because of the snowflake symbol, then you have not done your homework!!

To get you started, here is an interesting thread for you to read: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41859

 

[flipmode]

Just noticed, the REVOs are not snowflake rated but (at least according to Tirerack's survey) perform better in winter conditions than other tires that are snowflake rated.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Do most (if not all) snow tires have the snowflake symbol? Yupe. Although it may be marketing to those tires that do qualify, it is still a standard that some tires do not meet. For most (if not all) tire companies, paying a few $$ to see if their tire qualify for the symbol is like pissing in the ocean for them. In other words, IF a tire does qualify for the symbol, then i am 100% sure that any tire company would jump for it...it's good for business and it's relatively cheap to have the tire tested. Why would you think otherwise??

Thai, I respectfully disagree. Let

 

[HB 4X4]

You mean...someone like YOU?!! Lets see...you bought a tire that some (including me) recommended against based on your useage. You bought a tire that many of us (including me) recommended against due to the load rating. Hmmm, now, you are in the tire market again shortly after finding out the shortcomings of your recent purchase.

Things that make you go...HMMMMM.

Then why am I buying another set of Nitto's when I go up to 285's shortly? (As soon as I find a tire carrier I like).

I do not make excuses to justify my purchases, I go out and fix it.

And obviously the Nitto's aren't an unpopular choice since they beat BFG AT KO's in my poll. :lmao:

 

[HB 4X4]

Do most (if not all) snow tires have the snowflake symbol? Yupe. Although it may be marketing to those tires that do qualify, it is still a standard that some tires do not meet. For most (if not all) tire companies, paying a few $$ to see if their tire qualify for the symbol is like pissing in the ocean for them. In other words, IF a tire does qualify for the symbol, then i am 100% sure that any tire company would jump for it...it's good for business and it's relatively cheap to have the tire tested. Why would you think otherwise??

Nope, you are misled if you believe 100% that ANY company would see it as "worth it."

Oddly enough, you were one of the main people I wanted input on, and I got the response I suspected. Aside from you, and the few others who take this view, I hold my current opinions on BFG's from both reviews, opinions on "other forums" as well as experience on both my past vehicles, as well as on my step fathers vehicle.

Believe what you want. I know that there is no force on this earth that will ever change your opinion about your beloved BFG's or the all mighty Snowflake. This is why I wanted your input. I was seeking the most radical believer.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

My Nittos didn't have a snowflake symbol on them when i bought them 3 years ago but in my personal experiences vs my friend's '00 Runner shod with BFGs and actually driving his 4Runner my Nittos seemed to have much better turn-in bite and the Nittos seme to do a bit better job keeping the rearend where it was supposed to be.

Yes,p nut observed the BFGs doing better (off road) but I actually had experience on both and from my point of view the Nittos did better (on-road). So,who's right? Nobody since conditions will vary from different vehicles to the situation they are being used and that's why I'd like to see a controlled test by some truck rag to actually the two head to head. .

On road is where I want better snow performance from my Nittos and from what I experienced the Nittos had a slight edge;off road I simply cannot have an opinion since I've never compared the two.

 

[Thai]

Then why am I buying another set of Nitto's when I go up to 285's shortly? (As soon as I find a tire carrier I like).

I do not make excuses to justify my purchases, I go out and fix it.

Well, some people need a few more mistakes before realizing their flawed logic. :

Are you planning to AIR DOWN your new Nittos? If so, then you better read the link i posted above.

 

[HB 4X4]

My Nittos didn't have a snowflake symbol on them when i bought them 3 years ago but in my personal experiences vs my friend's '00 Runner shod with BFGs and actually driving his 4Runner my Nittos seemed to have much better turn-in bite and the Nittos seme to do a bit better job keeping the rearend where it was supposed to be.

Yes,p nut observed the BFGs doing better (off road) but I actually had experience on both and from my point of view the Nittos did better (on-road). So,who's right? Nobody since conditions will vary from different vehicles to the situation they are being used and that's why I'd like to see a controlled test by some truck rag to actually the two head to head. .

On road is where I want better snow performance from my Nittos and from what I experienced the Nittos had a slight edge;off road I simply cannot have an opinion since I've never compared the two.

I've had similar comparisons. On road, the difference is night/day. Offroad there wasn't much difference other than the BFGs kicking up 10 times more debris. The only advantage I'd give the BFGs is their sidewall. Otherwise I'd give nittos the overall better performance. Good luck In snow with BFGs after 10%-15% of tread Is worn. The nittos bit into the snow/ice. BFGs just give you a nice fun slip 'n' slide.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I air mine down on most of my off road trips and I've never had an issue so I'm not sure what is the negative part of this is with Nittos.

 

[Falls]

Luckily the new bailout plan has $1,500,000 slotted for the mountain/snowflake research in it.

Ok I could not resist putting a little humor into this .

Tires: Get what you like and what works best for your situation/terrain , thats the only way to get the best tire.

 

[Thai]

In the case of Yok, Bridgestone, Nokian and even Goodyear they have models of tires that perform well in the snow and are in all likelihood worthy of the snowflake.

With that as the backdrop it would make no sense to pursue a snowflake on certain, worthy tires.
:cheers:

Here is a link that i have ALREADY posted in the main thread about this topic...but here we go again.

Link: http://www.meadowcreektire.com/severeservic.html

"In the future, all Nokian Tyres will bear a snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol denoting that they are suitable for use in severe snow conditions."

So, apparently, Nokian is quite aware of the snowflake testing and its tires do meet the standard. (Yes, some of the older Nokian tires do not have the symbol but are still excellent...these tires were designed/manufactured BEFORE the snowflake symbol came about.)

So, again, this snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol is LEGIT and is RESPECTED by everyone around the world, including the major snow tire manufacturers.

And just for kicks, here is the info on Bridgestone Blizzaks: http://productcat.bridgestonetire.com/exports/pp_910153.pdf

Do you notice something on the sidewall?? Yes, it the snowflake symbol!!

 

[Thai]

More info from Bridgestones regarding the snowflake symbol...so, BFS (Bridgestone Firestone) respects the symbol too.

Link: http://www.moderntiredealer.com/t_print.cfm?action=art_det&storyID=1372

All-season vs. winter

What is the difference between a snow tire and a winter tire? William