Snowflake Symbol

[rook]

I think the crescent shape tread of the BFG at tread pattern is one of the features that makes it good off road, but hinders snow traction under certain conditions. There are no circumferential grooves to evac water away and minimal siping. Perhaps that is why some drivers complain about it as it wears. As Thai pointed out, having the symbol means it meets min standards, and as with any tire is not be as good with wear.

There is also the "drivers perception" factor. There are certain conditions when I am white knuckled, even with the Nokians. Other days, they make the truck feel like a tank. Take the BFG's out in fresh snow, they may be great, but a heavy wet late March storm may wreak havoc on traction. It comes down to the fact that in non-winter conditions, the road is either wet or dry. In winter, there are so many different types of snow conditions from powder to ice and every type of slush. Not to mention a temperature range of +40 to -15F. It is tough to build a tire to perform well year round in all conditions. For what BFG offers, one of the better buys.

I think Falls was referring to Nokian Vatiiva A/T. It is not severe rated. Probably, to CJ's point, not to take sales away from Nok's bread and butter Hakka line.

Pro Comp All Terrain tires are severe weather rated. Josh, the pro comps may be a good tire for you.. they are buy 3 get one free at 4 wheel parts right now

I found these (corny) videos on you tube about the pro comps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiOfRqbgMWw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV6aGWZiZzI

So, this severe weather rating is more than a marketing gimmick or a way for a corporation to boost sales. It really does provide added traction and is not meaningless.

 

[Thai]

So, this severe weather rating is more than a marketing gimmick or a way for a corporation to boost sales. It really does provide added traction and is not meaningless.

Uh-oh...so much for Josh's claim that i am the ONLY one with such strange belief!! Common sense goes a long way....

RonM, i am still waiting for some proof to back up your claims!

 

[Falls]

That tire rack link is outdated. Be interesting to see an updated list.

 

[alaskaman]

jumping into this.......the crescent shape has a ring of truth. the scorpions are essentially that, repeating small and large crescent shapes. I feel that I got lucky to plunk down a good amount of $ for them and feel secure in snow and wet.

Leaving October 29 for Bellingham WA landing November 3 in Haines Alaska. I am secretly hoping that I get to give the 4Runner and the Scorpions a true test overland 760 miles to Anchorage.

http://www.wheelselections.com/images/pereliATR.jpg

 

[Falls]

http://www.wheelselections.com/images/pereliATR.jpg

That almost looks like a Revo tread pattern . I was not sure what you guys meant by the crescent thing until I saw the pic. Thanks AM.

 

[alaskaman]

That almost looks like a Revo tread pattern . I was not sure what you guys meant by the crescent thing until I saw the pic. Thanks AM.

Yes I was struck by that when I looked at the Revo.....strong resemblance. no wonder they are so well liked.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Ok,I'm back and I do have a life away from the computer and was actually 4 wheelin' and in the light snow we got over nite at 11,000 ft and didn't encounter any issues in the 5" we encountered on the trails.

Ok,my bad as i misread something on another forum and I haven't found the snowflake symbol but it doesn't change my experiences in the snow we receive in Colorado. The snowflake symbol isn't the end to end all arguments if the tire in question still performs but it is a nice piece of recognition for a tire company. Nittos are designated M&S.

We still need a controlled test since all these tire threads are moslty opinions with no actual solid feedback and the arguments will go on and people will choose tires based on opinions and some good and some bad just like they do on the TireRack website's feedback of just general opinions.

Give me real proof that Nittos are substandard and I'll listen but until then I'll continue to drive on my TGs.

 

[Thai]

Ok,my bad as i misread something on another forum and I haven't found the snowflake symbol

Nittos are designated M&S.

Give me real proof that Nittos are substandard and I'll listen but until then I'll continue to drive on my TGs.

Hmm, you "misread" on another forum? Ok...alright, i will be nice.

M&S designation, as you know, is fairly useless and is widely recognized as such by all, including the tire manufacturers (see above links).

I don't think that anyone has said that the Nittos are "substandard." They are good tires like most other AT tires. They are nothing special in what they offer.

Remember, for one to make outrageous claims, one must also give facts/specs to back it up...otherwise, it makes for a very dull debate.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Thai,why is it you seem to harbor a "hated" for Nittos? You take one pic of a blown Nitto or one opinion of a member (p nut) that wasn't even driving on the BFGs or the Nittos and run with it and continue to use that as ammo when i've got over 3 years and 40k on mine and many off road trips and I've yet to state any real problems with them.

Do you secretly work for BFG? I don't work for Nitto but I'm one of the few on this forum that actually has experience on both tires and actually has off roaded extensively on both but my opinions don't seem to matter but I'm happy to supply them for other members.

I do notice a fair amount of members running Nittos on this forum and I've really yet to read any negativity toward them so tey obviously aren't rubbish and are a solid competitor for the BFGs.

I like our agruments but you do seem very slanted toward BFGs while I have a more middle stance on BFGs which I always have said they are great off road but on-road the Nittos are better IMO but pretty close in off roading but since most of us use our Runners as DDs the Nittos make a much better argument as an all around tire IMO.

I think from our "arguments" most people trying to decide between the two tires have plenty of info to make a choice that suits their needs.

 

[Thai]

Thai,why is it you seem to harbor a "hated" for Nittos? You take one pic of a blown Nitto or one opinion of a member (p nut) that wasn't even driving on the BFGs or the Nittos

Do you secretly work for BFG? I don't work for Nitto but I'm one of the few on this forum that actually has experience on both tires

I like our agruments but you do seem very slanted toward BFGs while I have a more middle stance on BFGs

Really?!! Are you kidding me?

Lets see...i have owned many tires in my past. Recently, i picked Firestone Destination M/T over Michelin and BFG. Did you miss the post in this thread where i wrote that you will NEVER catch me recommending any other BFG products...with maybe the exception of BFG M/T?? Or that you will NEVER catch me recommending BFG AT Ko to someone who does not off-road much?? Or that i actually am a BIG fan of Yokohama tires?? Which part of this did you miss in this thread and all our previous conversations??!! Are you freaking kidding me?!

YOU, on the other hand, is full of it...in all the tire posts that YOU have posted, how many of those posts have you ACTUALLY recommended something besides Nittos????? Hint: NONE. Have you actually look in the mirror, RonM??? For those who don't know, just search for HIS posts and you will see. And now, compare that to what i post in the tire threads and one can see a big difference!! With you, i am sure that you think that Nittos can save world hunger!

It seems like you and Josh are trying to throw me under the train because i actually back up what i talk about with FACTS.

You are one of the few?? Few of what?? I have had BOTH BFG and Nittos on the SAME rig...yes, the same Nittos that you love so much. What makes you think that you are so much more credible?? Lets get the FACTS straight!

I love how Josh started this thread by saying that "someone" is so crazy about the snowflake symbol. Well, it's maybe because i actually did some reading and research into it?!! It's a strange concept, but someone has to do it! I actually have FACTS to back up my beliefs. This is what i do with most things in my life, from work to what i type on this computer.

How about you, RonM? Where is this link that you "misread" from?? See, i did not want to push you into a corner, but you pushed me into one...so, here's back at you!

This whole thread was all about trying to prove me wrong. Boy, that has turned out embarrassing for Josh et al. :

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Ok,I'll bow out and give you the credit since I just don't have the time or caring to make this bigger than it is and yes,I was a bit in the wrong and was posting hastily but I have my experiences and opinions and people can take them for what they're worth since I really don't care what people buy in the end.

I'll stick with my Nittos and if they have any issues I'll report them but so far so good.

Sorry for the Thai bashing since it was uncalled for.

 

[HB 4X4]

Thai,
Not sure how someone can mention me so much, you must really like me a lot to talk about me so repetitively. You still have not persuaded me. Like I said, ONE person (that's you) and ONE opinion (p nut) do not persuade me. The symbol is still a marketing technique if you ask me. Do you have any links that will confirm if they do the "tests" on qualifying tires when they are brand new only, or if they do it after they have wear on them? What good is a symbol that rates a tire, but will only give those benefits for the first few months of ownership? Especially note that for the majority of people, they live in seasonal areas. Not snow 100% of the time. So if you only have snow for 4-5 months out of the year, by the next snowfall, your tires are utter junk. And honestly, you take things way to seriously, lighten up a little bit, you have turned a simple "debate" into an all-out war on humanity. No one is here to personally attack you.

 

[Thai]

Thai,
Like I said, ONE person (that's you) and ONE opinion (p nut) do not persuade me.

Add rook to your list too. Actually, you seemed pretty love-stricken with me to post this whole thread about a topic that is crystal clear and mentioning me directly too!

 

[HB 4X4]

Add rook to your list too. Actually, you seemed pretty love-stricken with me to post this whole thread about a topic that is crystal clear and mentioning me directly too!

Touche'

Haha, anyways, did you happen to have any links to the questions I asked in my last post? Shouldn't the "tests" for the symbol be performed not only when the tires are new?

 

[Thai]

Touche'

Haha, anyways, did you happen to have any links to the questions I asked in my last post? Shouldn't the "tests" for the symbol be performed not only when the tires are new?

Josh, i would email RMA and ask...i don't have an answer for you.

 

[HB 4X4]

Thai,
What good is a symbol that rates a tire, but will only give those benefits for the first few months of ownership? Especially note that for the majority of people, they live in seasonal areas. Not snow 100% of the time. So if you only have snow for 4-5 months out of the year, by the next snowfall, your tires are utter junk.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[Thai]

Any thoughts on that?

Well, your experience is your experience...you opinion is your opinion. It does NOT mean that your experience is truly the characteristic of the tire. As you can see in this thread, your posts are not well founded on fact. Obviously, the BFG AT KO has well-earned reputation for durability, reliability, decent on-road, and off-road performance.

What makes you think that your experience with BFG is the norm??? I don't get it. You claim that this snowflake symbol is junk, yet everyone in the tire industry disagrees with you (not just me and the other members here). Yet, you remain blind to facts and keep claiming the same BS. Are you even bothering to READ what is posted in this thread?? Are you even reading what other people are saying?? Honest question.

Along the same flawed logic, can you explain to me why there are people out there who found the Nittos to suck in snow?? Do you even get what i am trying to say??!!

Don't bother responding to my post...i doubt that you can comprehend what i just wrote. I am starting to think that you are either "not the sharpest pencil in the box" or you're looking for an argument.

Please direct all questions to RMA. Thanks in advance.

 

[HB 4X4]

Well, your experience is your experience...you opinion is your opinion. It does NOT mean that your experience is truly the characteristic of the tire. As you can see in this thread, your posts are not well founded on fact. Obviously, the BFG AT KO has well-earned reputation for durability, reliability, decent on-road, and off-road performance.

What makes you think that your experience with BFG is the norm??? I don't get it. You claim that this snowflake symbol is junk, yet everyone in the tire industry disagrees with you (not just me and the other members here). Yet, you remain blind to facts and keep claiming the same BS. Are you even bothering to READ what is posted in this thread?? Are you even reading what other people are saying?? Honest question.

Along the same flawed logic, can you explain to me why there are people out there who found the Nittos to suck in snow?? Do you even get what i am trying to say??!!

Don't bother responding to my post...i doubt that you can comprehend what i just wrote. I am starting to think that you are either "not the sharpest pencil in the box" or you're looking for an argument.

Please direct all questions to RMA. Thanks in advance.

Once again, you not only fail to answer the question at hand, as well as continue to make personal attacks on others. Also, referring to BFG as a great "all around" tire multiple times throughout this thread is not only redundant, but ludicrous since the thread is specifically about snow. While you were on you rant, and insulting me as usual, you failed to answer the question- if they rate it when the tire is brand new, who's to say what the symbol "stands for" when the tire is in real world situations in snow, while the performance it was rated for, is no longer available to the owner?

Also, half of your rant was attacking my "personal experiences" yet, none of that post was referencing personal experiences. Is it my own experience that different regions see multiple seasons? As far as I know, that's a pretty well known fact, especially in states like Denver.

I am done with this thread, it it pointless, as well as non-productive now that is has turned into your personal vendetta and has no way to end in a professional matter. This whole Fascist regime approach to things makes me feel like I am in my Political Science class.

 

[BlairB]

I seem to constantly find threads in which Thai is arguing with Josh...

Maybe we should just start a thread for "personal vendettas" rather than taking up all this space in the countless other threads it has spread to

 

[Thai]

I seem to constantly find threads in which Thai is arguing with Josh...

Maybe we should just start a thread for "personal vendettas" rather than taking up all this space in the countless other threads it has spread to

Strange, i once stood up for Josh against multiple request to ban him.

Facist regime?? Well, i think that RonM is part of that now! BTW, IF this was a Facist regime, then i don't think that you are still here...again. :