So a lift kit and maybe a bumper?

[Flyer]

I am trying to decide between the Overland Warehouse 2.0” and 2.5” kit (or a custom 2.5 with 2.0 coils?) for my V8 4R. I currently have the FJ TRD Bilstein full setup (coilovers, coils, shocks) and I like the ride. The rear is a bit stiff when unloaded (most of the time). However, I can live with it just fine. The key is that I do not want the rear to get even stiffer. Since the front is heavier than the V6 4R by ~150 lbs, I am not concerned much about the front.

So, should I go for:

1. OW 2.5” kit
2. OW 2.0” kit
3. A combo (2.5” with softer coils maybe?)

Some things to note:
While it’s not always a daily driver, it is a trip/weekend vehicle- esp long trips.
We are usually just my GF and me….and a Shih Tzu. I had my 80 lb Boxer in back but I lost her recently. Ugh, that makes me sad.

Anyway, I was just thinking and if I need a bumper and winch soon, here is one idea:

Get the 2.0 front Coilovers and ONLY the rear shocks since I can use the FJ rear coils with the 2.0 kit. That would be slightly cheaper than the 2.0 kit. If I get the full 2.5 kit, no bumper and winch for a year. I’m still open to that.

Then I’d get a bumper (don’t worry, I’ll start another bumper thread ) and a winch. If exploring CO and UT, don’t you guys think a bumper and winch is pretty essential? I wouldn’t know, being new to off-road adventure. However, I have seen pictures guys trying to shovel their vehicles out of sand. I like the light weight of the Demello bumper, though water bottle relocation does not sound like a lot of fun.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Have you read the info on their site? It very well sums up the differences. For me, milder off road use = 2.0, or more intense = 2.5. Either will handle the weight, 2.5 will handle a little better.

Pulled from the OW FAQ page.
Suspension

Q: Why would I choose a 2.5 Suspension kit?
A: The 2.5 kits were designed for people looking to build up a very capable rig and potentially add some heavy accessories like bumpers, skids, etc. The 2.5 kits were set up to provide excellent control offroad for rigs carrying extra weight, while maintaining good on road manners and ride quality. Although the kit was designed for heavier vehicles a number of customers have found it very pleasant to use on road with a stock weight vehicle. The best way to describe the on road ride on a stock truck is that small road irregularities tend to be felt in the cabin more than the stock suspension, but large potholes, bumps, etc get soaked up much better than the stock suspension. Also even with the increased ride height customers find nose dive and body roll much better than the stock suspension.

Q: Why would I choose a 2.0 Suspension kit?
A: The 2.0 kits were designed for people looking to modify their daily driver to be trail capable. The 2.0 kits were set up to provide great on road ride, while maintaining great off road control and capability. Although the kit was designed for stock weight vehicles it is still capable of carrying the extra weight of accessories, but won't do it as well as the 2.5 kits (specifically when it comes to control offroad). As with the 2.5 kits, the best way to describe the 2.0 kits on road ride on a stock truck is that small road irregularities tend to be felt in the cabin more than the stock suspension, but large potholes, bumps, etc get soaked up much better than the stock suspension, although on the 2.0 kit the on road manners will be even better than on the 2.5 kits when it comes to the small bumps. Again even with the increased ride height customers find nose dive and body roll much better than the stock suspension.

Q: What are the differences between the 2.5 and 2.0 kits?
A: The 2.0 kits use 2.0" diameter shocks & use 650lbs/in coils on the front coilovers. The kit provides 0-3.5" of adjustable front lift pending & approx 2" of non adjustable rear lift. The 2.0 kit provides a more compliant on road ride for a stock weight vehicle and is a more economical suspension upgrade than the 2.5 kit. Ideal for a daily driver that does not plan a heavy future build or the most demanding offroad performance.

The 2.5 kits use 2.5" diameter shocks & use 700lbs/in coils on the front coilovers. This provides more fluid and surface area for cooling and also larger piston surface area for more valving options. The kit provides 1-3.5" of adjustable front lift & approx 2-2.5" of non adjustable rear lift. (Please note that the front lift is closer to 2.5-3.5" on stock weight vehicles). The 2.5 kit provides a great platform for nice future offroad vehicle build & great offroad control and performance. The ride is firmer on road than the 2.0 kit for a stock weight vehicle, but not overly so.

Q: What makes the Overland Warehouse 2.5 and 2.0 kits different?
A: Overland Warehouse spend considerable time designing & testing the suspension kits for the specific platforms listed. For the 2.5 & 2.0 kits we worked in partnership with Radflo Suspension Technologies to produce the front coilovers and rear shock absorbers to Overland Warehouses specification in both dimension as well as valving.

We pair the front and rear suspension kits with similar valving and performance characteristics to give consistent ride and endurance capabilities, using the high end rebuildable & revalveable Radflo shock absorbers. In most cases OW designed and had the coilsprings build to our specifications to provide the performance characteristics desired for each kit & platform.

The front coilovers are adjustable with notch collars and a swivel hook wrench at the top of the coilover, which makes adjustment much easier and also far more durable than pin style adjustment setups.

Q: What on road ride can I expect with the Overland Warehouse 2.5 and 2.0 kits?
A: The best way to describe the on road ride on a stock weight vehicle is that small road irregularities tend to be felt in the cabin more than the stock suspension, but large potholes, bumps, etc get soaked up much better than the stock suspension. Also even with the increased ride height customers find nose dive and body roll much better than the stock suspension. Needless to say, the offroad ride and performance is substantially improved.

 

[Flyer]

Hey bud, I did read these and also some comparos between the two but was looking for any recent experiences and possibly any mix-and-match options. I looked at threads on Toyota120 as well. I'm still pretty torn so was looking for info that would push me one was or another. The key is I do not want an overly stiff and skittish rear...my primary concern with the 2.5s. If the spring is not much heavier than the FJ TRD spring, it will be fine.

Pretty soon, I will be well on my way with mods and exploring CO, UT, and AZ. Can hardly wait...

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Hey bud, I did read these and also some comparos between the two but was looking for any recent experiences and possibly any mix-and-match options. I looked at threads on Toyota120 as well. I'm still pretty torn so was looking for info that would push me one was or another. The key is I do not want an overly stiff and skittish rear...my primary concern with the 2.5s. If the spring is not much heavier than the FJ TRD spring, it will be fine.

Pretty soon, I will be well on my way with mods and exploring CO, UT, and AZ. Can hardly wait...

I would choose one or the other, I wouldn't try mixing. You may want to shoot them a message at [email protected]. They're excellent to work with and can probably give you a much better answer. I can't think of anyone who's had experience with both kits, so I doubt you'll get a definitive answer unless you talk to them. I've dealt with Andries multiple times and always had excellent feedback, I'm sure either him or Mark can steer you in the right direction.

I would venture to say that you'd be best to go ahead and get the 2.5 kit. If you're already planning on adding some weight, my guess is that in time you'll probably be doing more with it and the 2.5 will be a better fit at that point. From what I've read, folks seem to love the 2.5's even at stock weight. With your current plans, you'd be pushing the 2.0, but you'd be in the low range for the 2.5's. This would give you room to grow, which is most likely going to happen. I've seen it countless times and done it myself, folks buy for their needs today and don't fully consider what tomorrow may hold.

 

[Flyer]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the 2.5 at this point. Managed to speak with Mark for a while too. They can put 25# lighter springs in the back but I may just go with the package setup and not over-analyze this. I'll see if I can find out what the FJ TRD spring rate is versus what the OW 2.5 comes with.

Now I need to see if I need the LR control arms. I have not figured that out yet. I also need to see how complicated relocating the water bottle is, since I do like the Demello bumper the most.

 

[gaterose]

I'm not 100% sure but I think FJ coils spring rate is 570 or something for the front, the OW stuff comes with 650 lb coils but can be ordered with 600 (for 2.0) or 700 lb (for the 2.5) coils. I believe 4R OEM coils are 540 lbs.

I had FJ coils front & rear + bilstein 5100s setup at .85 and it was pretty level and rode well IMO. I switched the rear coils to SAW coils and and eventually upgraded to the OW 2.0 kit with 600 lb front springs and rear shocks only (the mix n match kit). For reference the SAW coils are slightly softer than the OW rear coils.

If you don't want much stiffer than FJ stuff, stick with it.

I'm going to (this weekend) lower my front coil overs back down to 1" or so to level with the back and put OEM coils back in the rear until I can find another set of FJ rear coils. This is because I talked myself into more lift then realized I don't care for anything stiffer than the FJ stuff was. The front COs are also still much stiffer than the FJ coils but I think lowering them a bit will releive some of that.

edit - for the rear FJ coils are 190 lb SAW are ~213 lb. I'm not sure what the radflo is but I believe it's around 230 lb.

 

[steveni70]

I haven't been able to find info on the front FJ coils, but the 4R fronts are 580 lbs. The FJ rears are 190 compared to 180 for the 4R. I'm considering OW coilovers, but I'll probably get the SAW rear coils or the Toytec superflex. I don't know if they're available through OW, but you can get the 2.5s with 600 or 650 lb coils through Toytec.
edit: too slow for gaterose

 

[Flyer]

Thanks guys, this is great information. Would be nice to get the 2.5s with 600-625 coils, I suppose. If valved nicely, they would still feel great.

 

[steveni70]

Toytec says the superflex are 10% stiffer than stock, but it says that in reference to the 4R and the FJ, so I'm not sure which one to base it on.

Gaterose, I'm trying to find where I got the 580 lbs figure
edit: here we go http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1678&highlight=front+spring

 

[Flyer]

Just guessing here but since the FJ is what most stuff is based on, I'll guess the FJ.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I'm not 100% sure but I think FJ coils spring rate is 570 or something for the front, the OW stuff comes with 650 lb coils but can be ordered with 600 (for 2.0) or 700 lb (for the 2.5) coils. I believe 4R OEM coils are 540 lbs.

I had FJ coils front & rear + bilstein 5100s setup at .85 and it was pretty level and rode well IMO. I switched the rear coils to SAW coils and and eventually upgraded to the OW 2.0 kit with 600 lb front springs and rear shocks only (the mix n match kit). For reference the SAW coils are slightly softer than the OW rear coils.

If you don't want much stiffer than FJ stuff, stick with it.

I'm going to (this weekend) lower my front coil overs back down to 1" or so to level with the back and put OEM coils back in the rear until I can find another set of FJ rear coils. This is because I talked myself into more lift then realized I don't care for anything stiffer than the FJ stuff was. The front COs are also still much stiffer than the FJ coils but I think lowering them a bit will releive some of that.

edit - for the rear FJ coils are 190 lb SAW are ~213 lb. I'm not sure what the radflo is but I believe it's around 230 lb.

Great info, I didn't realize they offered different coil options. That would have been nice to know about a week ago. From the sound of it, the 2.0 may be a better option for the OP.

 

[gaterose]

Flyer- I originally didn't read that you were thinking about adding a bumper, if so you should probably go for the 650 but I don't think you need the 2.5s unless you're planning to add a lot more weight and do a lot of high speed stuff. And don't worry, they will valve them well for you I'm sure.

Also - If you're thinking about UCAs, I got some Specialty Products Company control arms for $407 shipped from Amazon. SPC is the company who makes the arms for LR, I'm not sure why they're $100 more expensive everywhere but they're the same arms.

Gaterose, I'm trying to find where I got the 580 lbs figure
edit: here we go Coil Rates - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

I see, not sure where I got my numbers from then but I have a feeling its the same page and I had the FJ and 4R numbers confused.

Great info, I didn't realize they offered different coil options. That would have been nice to know about a week ago. From the sound of it, the 2.0 may be a better option for the OP.

Yeah they offer different options you just have to ask, I think I had to wait an extra week or 10 days because my COs had to be assembled by Radflo, not just something Andres had on the shelf. They only keep 650 lb on the shelves but will gladly get you 600 lb springs.