LawnDart
Senior Member
Do you have a cool rig? Do you take photos of said rig and put them in the interwebz? Well hey, this post applies to YOU.
I wanted to pass along some advice that will either inform you, and make you think, "Damn, LawnDart is looking out for me, and is an okay dude!" or you'll grumble and have your opinion of me reinforced, "Ugh, that guy is a douche, die in a fire." Spoilers: I'm not a complete douche.
Back to the matter of photography, it doesn't matter if you're a professional or an amateur, because on the internet no one can tell you're a dog. The separation between professional and dude with an iphone really doesn't apply anymore. And because of that everyone is able to generate some pretty stunning content. The only difference is professionals can do so repeatedly, on schedule, for clients. Some of us pay our bills making pretty imagery. It's how I support myself, as do a lot of other people who combine our tradecraft with our hobbies.
The off-road world is small and yet expansive. There's a lot of off-road companies out there, but they're all pretty tiny, and if you asked them what their marketing budgets are they'd probably point to an employee with a camera, or their friend of a friend who's kid is rad with a DSLR. Basically they don't have a ton of budget. As a result they reach out to people on IG, Facebook, etc, and use user generated content.
That means YOU. Yes you, on the other side of the screen. What's important to know is understanding usage rights, and permissions. A lot of us, myself included, allow companies the use of our photos to assist companies or people we know, free of charge, because what's easy for us (taking decent photos) is actually hard and time consuming for companies that are too busy steeped in another task: making awesome shit for our rigs.
The relationship you want to maintain is one where a company ASKS in the use of your photos, and you grant it. Remember, your truck is your investment. The minute you snap that shutter you own that image. There's a misconception that if you put it on the internet it's fair game. That's not true. Even services like Instagram have TOS's that state that they can use your content for their own advertising, but they can't SELL your photos as you still own them even having uploaded them to their service.
This leads to something I've wanted to discuss for a year now: what happens when a big company takes your photos. What do you do? Who do you talk to? Why is it worth caring about?
A year and a half ago Toyota took one of my photos of my truck, and used it in a presentation at the Chicago Auto Show, during their opening keynote. It wasn't huge on screen, but it was there. As a photographer you quickly run the emotional gamut of "oh cool" to "hey...wait a minute" really quickly. Here's a company I love, taking my work, and using it for their own profit, when I'm writing checks each month to pay off my lien. In fact I'd be willing to bet a lot of users on this forum, and on IG, have had their work used by Toyota without asking simply because they didn't spot them.
Now there's a lot of people who'd look at this situation and say, "But I love Toyota, I'd be honored if they used my photo in a major venue's keynote, you're a massive douche to get upset!" The issue is that companies operate to make profit. They're using photography they didn't pay for to sell a product. Toyota isn't a mom and pop company that has no marketing budget, or legal department. This simply shouldn't have happened from a company that is as structured as Toyota USA.
The problem with intellectual property is that if you don't assign a value to something, and defend that value, it has no value. This is why defending IP is extremely hard.
Let me be frank and upfront, that I dislike litigious people. I think we make it far too easy to sue people in this country. It was implied a few weeks back via rumor that I sued Toyota. I did not. I've never sued or been sued by anyone. What actually happened is I spent 2 weeks writing emails, sending calls, and working with Toyota's social media venues to finally contact someone to say, "Hey, you used my photo without asking, STOP!"
I didn't want to contact them over paying for the image, but rather to stop using that image without permission. Anyways, 2 weeks go by and I finally get a call from Toyota's legal department. Having talked with lawyers before, it's an odd call because they didn't want to admit any fault, yet they wanted to apologize. Since they didn't want to discuss how it happened I'll present my theory, that some social media intern for Toyota's marketing department basically searched #trdpro or #4runner, and basically downloaded a few hundred images off Instagram. Maybe they didn't know better, or didn't expect anyone would care, but they screwed up. They screwed up big time. Had they reached out to each and every photo source and asked for permission, they'd likely have gotten the same photos without any headache. I know I'd have likely said sure, and it'd have never been an issue.
Instead it became a discussion of Toyota screwing up, and wanting to make the situation right, which meant the only solution they knew how to do: pay for the photo(s). I even asked for them to take a massive chunk out of my lien, but Toyota Financial Services is not the same company as Toyota USA, so they couldn't make that happen. The point being is that I was looking for a solution that didn't involve a check.
Ultimately Toyota USA and I agreed to a price that was based upon the cost of the photo, the cost I'd have charged to make that photo for them based on permits, insurance, equipment costs, and time. And in exchange they'd ensure that they'd put checks and balances in place not to mine social media for photos without expressly acquiring permission from the sources (aka you).
No suing was involved, just some strongly worded emails. And out of the hundreds of photos used I and one other photographer were the only ones to notice and bring up the issue with Toyota. As a result of coming to a deal with Toyota, I signed a photo release that asked me to wait a year before discussing the terms of the deal. For the past year I've wanted to write this post just to let people know what happened and how it's applicable to people on this forum and social media.
There are some truly beautiful rigs online, that people have poured their heart and souls (and wallets) into, and understanding how companies appropriate those photos is critical. I want to be very clear that if a company asks to use those photos you should consider it, as long as both parties understand how they'll be used, and you're not being taken advantage of. For a lot of us we spent 4 years in college, paid a ton of that education (I finally paid off my student loans 2 years ago), and work hard for our gear (I'm not sponsored and pay for damn near everything on my rig). So having that investment in time and money be respected, is critical.
It's easy for companies to just REPOST your photo, and it takes people to say "hey that's my photo, don't just use it without asking me!" before companies learn. The saying it's better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission, should not be the modus operandi of the companies we own products from.
Ultimately the point of this thread is to just caution people in knowing how their photos are being used, and to be aware that you have rights as photographers. I love giving away my photos when and where possible to companies that could not otherwise afford the services of a photographer. That give and take is based on appreciation. If you do not keep track of your photos, and assign a value for them, they have no value.
We love our trucks, we take photos of our trucks, those photos can have real value to companies, and managing the value is important.
I wanted to pass along some advice that will either inform you, and make you think, "Damn, LawnDart is looking out for me, and is an okay dude!" or you'll grumble and have your opinion of me reinforced, "Ugh, that guy is a douche, die in a fire." Spoilers: I'm not a complete douche.
Back to the matter of photography, it doesn't matter if you're a professional or an amateur, because on the internet no one can tell you're a dog. The separation between professional and dude with an iphone really doesn't apply anymore. And because of that everyone is able to generate some pretty stunning content. The only difference is professionals can do so repeatedly, on schedule, for clients. Some of us pay our bills making pretty imagery. It's how I support myself, as do a lot of other people who combine our tradecraft with our hobbies.
The off-road world is small and yet expansive. There's a lot of off-road companies out there, but they're all pretty tiny, and if you asked them what their marketing budgets are they'd probably point to an employee with a camera, or their friend of a friend who's kid is rad with a DSLR. Basically they don't have a ton of budget. As a result they reach out to people on IG, Facebook, etc, and use user generated content.
That means YOU. Yes you, on the other side of the screen. What's important to know is understanding usage rights, and permissions. A lot of us, myself included, allow companies the use of our photos to assist companies or people we know, free of charge, because what's easy for us (taking decent photos) is actually hard and time consuming for companies that are too busy steeped in another task: making awesome shit for our rigs.
The relationship you want to maintain is one where a company ASKS in the use of your photos, and you grant it. Remember, your truck is your investment. The minute you snap that shutter you own that image. There's a misconception that if you put it on the internet it's fair game. That's not true. Even services like Instagram have TOS's that state that they can use your content for their own advertising, but they can't SELL your photos as you still own them even having uploaded them to their service.
This leads to something I've wanted to discuss for a year now: what happens when a big company takes your photos. What do you do? Who do you talk to? Why is it worth caring about?
A year and a half ago Toyota took one of my photos of my truck, and used it in a presentation at the Chicago Auto Show, during their opening keynote. It wasn't huge on screen, but it was there. As a photographer you quickly run the emotional gamut of "oh cool" to "hey...wait a minute" really quickly. Here's a company I love, taking my work, and using it for their own profit, when I'm writing checks each month to pay off my lien. In fact I'd be willing to bet a lot of users on this forum, and on IG, have had their work used by Toyota without asking simply because they didn't spot them.
Now there's a lot of people who'd look at this situation and say, "But I love Toyota, I'd be honored if they used my photo in a major venue's keynote, you're a massive douche to get upset!" The issue is that companies operate to make profit. They're using photography they didn't pay for to sell a product. Toyota isn't a mom and pop company that has no marketing budget, or legal department. This simply shouldn't have happened from a company that is as structured as Toyota USA.
The problem with intellectual property is that if you don't assign a value to something, and defend that value, it has no value. This is why defending IP is extremely hard.
Let me be frank and upfront, that I dislike litigious people. I think we make it far too easy to sue people in this country. It was implied a few weeks back via rumor that I sued Toyota. I did not. I've never sued or been sued by anyone. What actually happened is I spent 2 weeks writing emails, sending calls, and working with Toyota's social media venues to finally contact someone to say, "Hey, you used my photo without asking, STOP!"
I didn't want to contact them over paying for the image, but rather to stop using that image without permission. Anyways, 2 weeks go by and I finally get a call from Toyota's legal department. Having talked with lawyers before, it's an odd call because they didn't want to admit any fault, yet they wanted to apologize. Since they didn't want to discuss how it happened I'll present my theory, that some social media intern for Toyota's marketing department basically searched #trdpro or #4runner, and basically downloaded a few hundred images off Instagram. Maybe they didn't know better, or didn't expect anyone would care, but they screwed up. They screwed up big time. Had they reached out to each and every photo source and asked for permission, they'd likely have gotten the same photos without any headache. I know I'd have likely said sure, and it'd have never been an issue.
Instead it became a discussion of Toyota screwing up, and wanting to make the situation right, which meant the only solution they knew how to do: pay for the photo(s). I even asked for them to take a massive chunk out of my lien, but Toyota Financial Services is not the same company as Toyota USA, so they couldn't make that happen. The point being is that I was looking for a solution that didn't involve a check.
Ultimately Toyota USA and I agreed to a price that was based upon the cost of the photo, the cost I'd have charged to make that photo for them based on permits, insurance, equipment costs, and time. And in exchange they'd ensure that they'd put checks and balances in place not to mine social media for photos without expressly acquiring permission from the sources (aka you).
No suing was involved, just some strongly worded emails. And out of the hundreds of photos used I and one other photographer were the only ones to notice and bring up the issue with Toyota. As a result of coming to a deal with Toyota, I signed a photo release that asked me to wait a year before discussing the terms of the deal. For the past year I've wanted to write this post just to let people know what happened and how it's applicable to people on this forum and social media.
There are some truly beautiful rigs online, that people have poured their heart and souls (and wallets) into, and understanding how companies appropriate those photos is critical. I want to be very clear that if a company asks to use those photos you should consider it, as long as both parties understand how they'll be used, and you're not being taken advantage of. For a lot of us we spent 4 years in college, paid a ton of that education (I finally paid off my student loans 2 years ago), and work hard for our gear (I'm not sponsored and pay for damn near everything on my rig). So having that investment in time and money be respected, is critical.
It's easy for companies to just REPOST your photo, and it takes people to say "hey that's my photo, don't just use it without asking me!" before companies learn. The saying it's better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission, should not be the modus operandi of the companies we own products from.
Ultimately the point of this thread is to just caution people in knowing how their photos are being used, and to be aware that you have rights as photographers. I love giving away my photos when and where possible to companies that could not otherwise afford the services of a photographer. That give and take is based on appreciation. If you do not keep track of your photos, and assign a value for them, they have no value.
We love our trucks, we take photos of our trucks, those photos can have real value to companies, and managing the value is important.
course when those Toyota engineers see the cup holder mod you know they are stealing it, did you patent it Jeff???
