Soliciting opinions/facts re major fluid changes

[philsey]

2010 with 58K on it. Driving style is normal, city 70%/highway 30%. Never tow, load heavy, or off road - basically it's my car.

Starting to think abt doing some major fluid changes (trans, diffs, coolant, brake), so I got out my Toyota Maintenance Guide.

This booklet runs out to 120K/144 mos, and never under "normal" usage are any of these fluid changes listed. Interestingly, under "Special Operating Conditions" (towing etc), some start as early as 30K.

Curious about other opinions, since it seems Toyota apparently deems these unnecessary under normal conditions.

- frt diff
- rr diff
- trans
- xfr case
- brake
- coolant

 

[marshal]

i did my front and rear diffs, t-case, and transmission at 50k. i'll do them again and coolant when i hit 100k. brakes are whatever IMO

 

[1engineer]

2010 with 58K on it. Driving style is normal, city 70%/highway 30%. Never tow, load heavy, or off road - basically it's my car.

Starting to think abt doing some major fluid changes (trans, diffs, coolant, brake), so I got out my Toyota Maintenance Guide.

This booklet runs out to 120K/144 mos, and never under "normal" usage are any of these fluid changes listed. Interestingly, under "Special Operating Conditions" (towing etc), some start as early as 30K.

Curious about other opinions, since it seems Toyota apparently deems these unnecessary under normal conditions.

- frt diff
- rr diff
- trans
- xfr case
- brake
- coolant

Geez, Phil. Here is what you are going to get:
- 70% of the responses will claim they are under the "severe duty" section because they pulled a trailer once or went down a dirt road a few months ago.
- 20% of the responses will be the 'ol "Toyota engineers don't know anything so I use my own schedule" bull.
- 5% of the responses will claim they had a "friend of a friend" or a "tech" or someone with some knowledge tell them the correct duty cycle.
- 3% will be off the wall comments (like this) and
- 2% will actually help you with their opinions.

Read this Stop Changing Your Oil! | Edmunds.com to start.


100K-125K transmission fluid
10K oil
75K Diffs and Transfer case.
5 years engine coolant.
5 years brake fluid.
Grease every 10K.

Why?
80% of my miles are interstate.
I go off road often but not a lot of miles.
I am not even close to "severe duty" nor are most people.
I drive 20K-25K a year.

 

[marshal]

Geez, Phil. Here is what you are going to get:
- 70% of the responses will claim they are under the "severe duty" section because they pulled a trailer once or went down a dirt road a few months ago.
- 20% of the responses will be the 'ol "Toyota engineers don't know anything so I use my own schedule" bull.
- 5% of the responses will claim they had a "friend of a friend" or a "tech" or someone with some knowledge tell them the correct duty cycle.
- 3% will be off the wall comments (like this) and
- 2% will actually help you with their opinions.

Read this Stop Changing Your Oil! | Edmunds.com to start.

i have no idea what toyota's recommended oil interval is for full synthetic, but i generally do 10-12,000 miles

 

[Jhalko]

Geez, Phil. Here is what you are going to get:
- 70% of the responses will claim they are under the "severe duty" section because they pulled a trailer once or went down a dirt road a few months ago.
- 20% of the responses will be the 'ol "Toyota engineers don't know anything so I use my own schedule" bull.
- 5% of the responses will claim they had a "friend of a friend" or a "tech" or someone with some knowledge tell them the correct duty cycle.
- 3% will be off the wall comments (like this) and
- 2% will actually help you with their opinions.

Read this Stop Changing Your Oil! | Edmunds.com to start.


100K-125K transmission fluid
10K oil
75K Diffs and Transfer case.
5 years engine coolant.
5 years brake fluid.
Grease every 10K.

Why?
80% of my miles are interstate.
I go off road often but not a lot of miles.
I am not even close to "severe duty" nor are most people.
I drive 20K-25K a year.

Can I get that in spreadsheet format with some charts please?

Phil I was thinking about this the other day, I spend a decent amount of time in stop and go which I Assume to be worse than the easy-moderate offroading I do every week or two. I was still just going to use the regular schedule. I like to give Toyota the benefit of the doubt since I know no better.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

I've seen posts on the 2nd Gen Tacomaworld.com forum indicating people have gone 175K-200K w/o changing transmission fluid. Pretty much the same tranny as 5th Gen 4 Runner.

In reality you could likely drive your 5th Gen 200K w/o doing anything but changing oil, air filter; cabin filter at the scheduled time outlined in owners manual.

One thing that might bite a person trying to do this is the serpentine belt and coolant hoses. You'd have to keep an eye on them for tell-tale signs of wear.

To me, your vehicle is low mileage and does not need tranny fluid/coolant/power steering.

Some would say that brake fluid absorbs moisture and needs to be flushed every 2 yrs., but that may be another "upsell" story.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I am no expert but I will give advice based on what I did in my 4th gen. I changed the front, rear dif and transfer case at around 30k miles. The transfer case and front dif fluid looked like new. The rear diff was definitely dirty looking. I changed the brake fluid every 3 years or so just because it looks dirty and the brake systems are very expensive on the 4runners (master cylinder). I also changed the power steering fluid when it looked dirty. I used synthetic fluid in the front rear dif and transfer case. I do not know if the synthetic fluid caused it but shortly after switching to synthetic fluid the transfer case actuator started to leak (a relatively common 4th gen problem and an expensive repair). With that history and the 5th gen being very similar the rear axle oil would probably need the most changes followed by the brake fluid and power steering fluid. When you change the front dif oil make sure you can get the fill plug out before draining the oil. 4th gens on the forum have had problems of people draining the oil and then not being able to get the fill plug out. My 03 did not have the newer longer life antifreeze so I changed it every 3 years or so but I did not drive it as many miles as most people do. . My 03 did not have the sealed transmission so I would drain and fill it once in a while. I am not sure what I will do with the trans fluid on my 14 yet.

 

[Rmack]

I do all of my fluids at 50k unless specified earlier in the manual. Once changed at 50k I can diagnose the look / feel and even smell to see if it is warranted at another 50k. I also pull the fill plug to top off if needed and wet my finger to see the color of the fluid to check for milky looking or dark.

It is not necessary, and I do not fret if I miss the mark. It is just how I do it and it has served me well. I keep my vehicles and put a lot of miles on them, tow a lot, and run them hard when needed.

With your use, I see no need to be concerned. If you do change them, you can check the condition of the fluid (color, odor etc.) and know if you are good for another 75 - 100k

As a guy who has been wrenching on cars for over 35 years, I would be more concerned with the transmission fluid and rear diff way before PS, brake fluid, front diff etc. It is an automatic transmission with a torque converter and clutches that wear. Although it is probably negligible wear, the clutch material is in fact in the transmission fluid.

There are many opinions just like 1engineer said. It is always safest to go by the owners manual on suggested intervals unless you are ADD and OCD like me

 

[philsey]

..... I was still just going to use the regular schedule. I like to give Toyota the benefit of the doubt since I know no better.

..... It is always safest to go by the owners manual on suggested intervals ....

See guys, this is why I started this thread; there IS NO maintenance schedule for fluids for normal driving conditions (as I stated in the OP).

 

[Lester Lugnut]

See guys, this is why I started this thread; there IS NO maintenance schedule for fluids for normal driving conditions (as I stated in the OP).

My guess is a lot has to do with the fact that most people don't keep their vehicles all that long. A guy who drives anything for 100K; then trades it in can get away with just the 3 things I listed above and in reality, maybe never do any of them. [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] reported awhile back that an engineer friend of his drove a Honda just over 100K and did noting but put gas in it. He may have had to do a tire change.

By keeping the list of things-to-do at a minimum, Toyota offers a lower total-cost-of-ownership.

You need to follow whatever maint. schedule makes you feel comfortable.

 

[wanderMT]

I believe in initial change of oils at about 25-30k. And, maybe never again, but consider at about 100k depending on use and if I plan on keeping.
Brake and coolant at about 7 years or when system is opened/worked on for other issues.

 

[spooln30]

You definitely shouldn't over look changing your brake fluid. Most people say "whatever" but down the line you will regret saying that. The main problem is moisture which will destroy the brake components. Take this for example. Have you ever seen a Toyota with the coated brake lines, which is like a plastic coating, rusted and started leaking. Well how did the line rust if it's coated? It started rusting from the inside out from moisture in the fluid. I've ran across this many of times at my shop and laugh because Toyota helped us out by installing coated lines on our vehicles. We should never have to replace a brake or fuel line on a Toyota because of the coating. American vehicles really only started using coated lines maybe 5 to 8 years ago where Toyota has been doing this since the 80s. Heck the brake lines on my 89 Supra still look brand new because of this coating. Just saying.
I would say 30k for diff fluid and around the same for the transfer case but if your running synthetic you can go longer under normal driving. The WS trans fluid is still a mystery to me. Toyota states it's a lifetime fluid but I wouldn't take that chance. I've done drain and fills on Toyotas using WS fluid and found some almost burnt at 50-60k and some still red. I'm going to do all of my 12 Limiteds fluids in the next week or so before my atv trip and I'm thinking of putting a better trans fluid instead of the WS stuff. Something that is synthetic maybe.

 

[4RnR Grl]

Geez, Phil. Here is what you are going to get:
- 70% of the responses will claim they are under the "severe duty" section because they pulled a trailer once or went down a dirt road a few months ago.
- 20% of the responses will be the 'ol "Toyota engineers don't know anything so I use my own schedule" bull.
- 5% of the responses will claim they had a "friend of a friend" or a "tech" or someone with some knowledge tell them the correct duty cycle.
- 3% will be off the wall comments (like this) and
- 2% will actually help you with their opinions.

Read this Stop Changing Your Oil! | Edmunds.com to start.


100K-125K transmission fluid
10K oil
75K Diffs and Transfer case.
5 years engine coolant.
5 years brake fluid.
Grease every 10K.

Why?
80% of my miles are interstate.
I go off road often but not a lot of miles.
I am not even close to "severe duty" nor are most people.
I drive 20K-25K a year.

[MENTION=51186]philsey[/MENTION] Beat me to the punch. I turned over 40K (yeah I know, it's 2 years old) went to the dealer for my free oil change (who btw thinks it's still 5K), and they tried to sell me a diff fluid change and tran fluid change. They must have thought it was my first go-round. I looked at the guy like he had horns growing out of his head and said "You think I can't do that myself? I sure as hell am not paying your techs to do that. I just come here for the free oil changes." SMH!

 

[Rmack]

See guys, this is why I started this thread; there IS NO maintenance schedule for fluids for normal driving conditions (as I stated in the OP).

Sorry Phil, I did not see that part. I cannot believe any automobile company would not have those intervals. There is no such thing as lifetime fluid for any system. Temperature, humidity etc. even take their toll on a fluid.

I have owned Honda accords (3) and GMC trucks for most of my daily drivers. Have owned many classic cars and hot rods. I have learned by taking engines, transmissions and differentials apart and rebuilding them. Same with power steering systems, brakes, air conditioning etc. I have seen first hand the effects of "lack of regular maintenance".

I also have been trained and have supervised oil analysis laboratories. Although really not necessary on a daily driven car, oil analysis plays a tremendous role in the prediction of a failure and when it is time to change the oil. Some of the large machinery that we tested would cost thousands for an oil change (type of fluid and quantity), so they tested it vs. a change interval. With high performance jet engines etc., the main purpose is analyzing wear metals to catch a problem prior to failure (no place to pull over at 25,000 feet).

I will go out on the flaming limb to say this; Why is it that folks will spend hundreds / thousands modifying a vehicle they love, but not spend an extra couple of hundred to "ensure" that they are operating their vehicle with fluids that are in good condition. If anyone here can guarantee me that their 50,000 mile fluid is good without draining it and inspecting it, or taking a sample and sending it to be analyzed, I know a couple of companies that will pay you six figures easily.

Yes, I am one of those who do not believe that "one size fits all" in the owners manual. I do believe that they are spot on if you have nowhere else to gain the knowledge. I also happen to believe that I personally have the knowledge / experience to use my own intervals (I do use the recommended oils as there is so much involved in that).

My recommendation. Change at 50k, if it looks good you can go 75k next time. I will have to look, but it is disappointing if there is no change interval for the automatic transmission, even manual transmissions need changing and they do not have anywhere near the friction / debris of an automatic.

 

[tH1e swiN1e]

100K-125K transmission fluid
10K oil
75K Diffs and Transfer case.
5 years engine coolant.
5 years brake fluid.
Grease every 10K.

I agree with 1eng's intervals. My interval cycles are a little sooner for my oil, diffs, and transfer case merely because of all the added weight and offroading I do.

 

[thebrandon]

Grease and oil every 1 mile in everything, coolant and washer fluid every 5-10 minutes.

You are going to get every other answer, why not this one?

 

[4string4runner]

Grease and oil every 1 mile in everything, coolant and washer fluid every 5-10 minutes.

You are going to get every other answer, why not this one?

werd ! :clap2:

 

[Bossman]

I bought my new-to-me 2011 Limited back in May 2016. The previous owner had racked up 144,000 km (89,000 miles) on it, with all regular maintenance (mainly just the 0W20 oil/filter changes and the occasional air filter) done at Toyota dealerships. Shortly after my purchase I had some brake work done and upgraded the tires - that blew my service budget!

This May at 151,000 km (94,000 miles) I decided to flush and fill the automatic transmission fluid, flush and fill the engine coolant, drain and fill the transfer case gear oil, drain and fill the front differential gear oil and rear differential gear oil. My independent mechanic did not notice any burnt smell or significant discoloration in the gear oils when he drained the t-case and differentials.

We went with Toyota Genuine ATF WS Fluid and Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. Since my local Toyota dealership gets their (75W90) gear oil in bulk, I was not able to use the recommended Toyota gear oils as specified in the owner's manual. Ended up using Lucas Synthetic 75W90 gear oil in the t-case and differentials.

Also replaced the rear differential vent.

Should be good for the next 80,000 km (50,000 miles).

After we had these fluid changes finished and my mechanic had thoroughly inspected my 4Runner I asked him if there was anything else I needed to do ... his reply - "drive and enjoy!"

 

[05Rrunner]

Use the factory Toyota fluids, at the recommended intervals . I think that's the best way to go.

 

[702_SR5]

Use the factory Toyota fluids, at the recommended intervals . I think that's the best way to go.

The OP's point was that the manual has no recommended interval for many of the fluids.

Yes, I'm bumping an old thread. I found it while searching for opinions about changing the front or rear diff fluid.

According to the MX schedule for my '18, there's no need to change it under normal use! OTOH, if you tow, use a car-top carrier, or carry heavy loads, you should change both every 15K. :noidea: