Solutions for no rubbing on 275 or 285 tires, without a lift

minimalist

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I'm not interested in putting a lift on my trail premium for at least 2 years because I want to see what the new 2018 4runner looks and performs like. I want to get bigger tires but really dont want to deal with any rubbing. Are there any alternatives to a lift that can be done that's relatively inexpensive and will prevent any rubbing on a stock trail premium?

I've seen variations of this questions so my apologies if it's been asked already.
 
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Lots of trimming and different offset wheels depending on the size of the 275 or 285's you're going for?

Realistically if you're not really going to go for a real lift, just have some spacers slapped on there and trim what gets in the way.
 
Lots of trimming and different offset wheels depending on the size of the 275 or 285's you're going for?

Realistically if you're not really going to go for a real lift, just have some spacers slapped on there and trim what gets in the way.

In one thread I read spacers could make rubbing worse. I know very little so bare with me.

In terms of trimming, will that effect resale value? Is it something that a dealer or installer will do? How hard is it for someone with 0 experience working on cars, like myself, to do?
 
Lots of trimming and different offset wheels depending on the size of the 275 or 285's you're going for?

Realistically if you're not really going to go for a real lift, just have some spacers slapped on there and trim what gets in the way.

Oh, and these were what I've been eyeing, BFGoodrich*All-Terrain T/A KO2

I'm mainly looking for something that won't impact my highway driving to work, usually 80mph, 44 miles each way. And that will also do well when I'm screwing around on the weekend or taking my lady and I out on a camping trip.
 
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Trimming will have a bigger impact on your resale then a lift will. A lift is reversible, trimming is not.

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Look at the BFG KO2 in 255/75R17. They are the same overall diameter as the 275/70R17 (32") but narrower and should fit without rubbing, trimming, spacers, etc. This is the route I plan to go when I get tires. These should also have less impact on fuel mileage than a wider tire. I can't say that I have them, but I've done a good bit of research.
 
Yeah I used that which is how I came up with the 275's. Definitely not doing 285 not sure why I included that. I'll try and search for cutting to make room.

There is the Harper fender mod and for those with 14+ trucks there seems to be a tighter tolerance on the bottom of the from bumper. Based on pictures on this site a very small trim may be needed. These mods are highly unlikely to even be noticed by anyone since a 275 would require so little again if any.
 
Look at the BFG KO2 in 255/75R17. They are the same overall diameter as the 275/70R17 (32") but narrower and should fit without rubbing, trimming, spacers, etc. This is the route I plan to go when I get tires. These should also have less impact on fuel mileage than a wider tire. I can't say that I have them, but I've done a good bit of research.

That's the route I'm going as well.
 
285s with some minor trimming (that would never be noticed) should fit. You just have to know what you are doing. Simple as that. Alignment is also key...

The other problem is each truck, tire, wheel is a bit different. so you have to experiment. Near stock offsets work best. The less back spacing the more fore and aft movement of the wheel edges as you turn (this is often referred to as scrub radius)

I've never understood why people think LIFTs clear bigger tires when they don't really do that once you get the suspension fully compressed. Which will happen off-road.... Suspension lifts do mask clearance problems and can sometimes be combined with longer bump stops or travel limiters to clear more tire. But what really makes room for more tire is alignment, fender trimming, body lifts.....
 
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I'm not interested in putting a lift on my trail premium for at least 2 years because I want to see what the new 2018 4runner looks and performs like. I want to get bigger tires but really dont want to deal with any rubbing. Are there any alternatives to a lift that can be done that's relatively inexpensive and will prevent any rubbing on a stock trail premium?

I've seen variations of this questions so my apologies if it's been asked already.

I just put Toyo Open Country R/T 285/70/R17 on my Trail with stock suspension. Removed the front mud flap and did the front fender liner move. I have no rubbing.
 
In one thread I read spacers could make rubbing worse. I know very little so bare with me.

In terms of trimming, will that effect resale value? Is it something that a dealer or installer will do? How hard is it for someone with 0 experience working on cars, like myself, to do?

Just to give some clarity on this - there are two different items commonly called "spacers".

One is a spacer that sits on top of your front coilover (the spring/shock unit). The purpose of this spacer is to increase your static ride height - the height the truck sits when at rest.
This is an example of a coil spring that has two spacers - one inside the coil assembly and one outside the assembly. Both styles will give you a "lift" in the front.
topplatespacer.jpg~original


The other type of spacer is a wheel spacer that bolts on between your hub and your wheel. This moves the wheel outward to give a wider stance. On many vehicles wheel spacers can move the wheel outward in such a way that the tires do not rub. On our vehicles - because of the geometry - the wheel spacers will make your interference worse, not better.

They look like this:
wheel-spacers_1101-base.jpg~original


The lift spacer does not help with tire rub because the suspension geometry does not change. The location of the tire is dictated by the a-arms and spindle. If you do not change those, the tire will cycle through the same motion no matter what static or starting point you are set at.

One very common concern with the OEM suspension is that the caster angle is pretty low. Meaning that the front tires have relatively little desire to track straight and the 4runner (and all toyota IFS 4x4s) tend to wander or need constant correction when driving. Part of the problem with this is that in AWD models you would not want as much caster if the front tires are being powered, so it's a bit of a compromise. In order to add more caster you can do one of two things. The first is to adjust the lower a-arm to move the bottom pivot point of the spindle FORWARD. The result is more caster and better driving dynamics, but it also moves the center of the spindle FORWARD toward the front fender liner and tends to cause a rub there. The other preferred alternative is to move the top pivot rearward. The upper arm is not adjustable - so to do that you need to buy new upper control arms or "UCA"s. Those are not cheap. The benefit is that you can add caster where it is less prone to rubbing.

EDIT: WHAT I HAD ORIGINALLY WRITTEN ABOVE WAS EXACTLY WRONG. To increase caster the LCA needs to move the lower pivot point forward adding more rub in the front. :frusty:

The other consideration is that all of them are different. So where one vehicle may have a slight rub, another will not.

The final comment is that the rub is at the outer corner of the tire. So some tires that have more rounded outer tread will fit without rubbing where another tire with the same "size" will rub. A BFG All Terrain has a very square tread corner that may be more likely to rub than something like a Michelin M/S2. That extra area of ground pressure could be important to some and not to others. A 275/70/17 tire is a nice compromise. Another possibility would be a 265/70/18 with new wheels to have a narrower tire that's just a bit taller. Or of course stick with stock tire size.

In my opinion the difference between a 265 and 285 is more for visual benefit than any significant increase in offroad performance. There's a benefit, but I don't think it'll be a lot. The stock 4runner will be pretty capable as it is with some better stock size tires.
 
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I'm mainly looking for something that won't impact my highway driving to work, usually 80mph, 44 miles each way.

Honestly, if you're driving that much highway every day, I'd stick with stock size P rated, or at most C rated tires. These trucks are geared high with too little torque as it is, and bigger tires won't help the matter. Plus, you won't need the 1/2" of increased ground clearance from a bigger tire when you're going camping.

That being said, 275/70R17 fit on mine with no rubbing or mods at all, even when flexed.
 
In order to add more caster you can do one of two things. The first is to adjust the lower a-arm to move the bottom pivot point of the spindle rearward. The result is more caster and better driving dynamics, but it also moves the center of the spindle back toward the rear fender liner/mud flap and tends to cause a rub there. The other preferred alternative is to move the top pivot point forward. The upper arm is not adjustable - so to do that you need to buy new upper control arms or "UCA"s. Those are not cheap. The benefit is that you can add caster and move the tire slightly forward where it is less prone to rubbing.

FYI
I think you got your directions reversed there... More + caster is achieved by moving the LCA ball joint forward and the UCA ball joint back. More caster will not cause more rub in the rear. Generally, the opposite is true. Not enough caster will cause the rub.


Also. Top plate spacers discussed are not something you want to do without an aftermarket UCA. It will push the stock ball joints out of range not to mention what it can do to the CVs if you actually try to gain much of a lift that way.... It's not really a viable option for most folks.
 
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FYI
I think you got your directions reversed there... More + caster is achieved by moving the LCA ball joint forward and the UCA ball joint back. More caster will not cause more rub in the rear. Generally, the opposite is true. Not enough caster will cause the rub.


Also. Top plate spacers discussed are not something you want to do without an aftermarket UCA. It will push the stock ball joints out of range not to mention what it can do to the CVs if you actually try to gain much of a lift that way.... It's not really a viable option for most folks.

This is correct. What I wrote was exactly the opposite. Thank you for catching this! I will edit to correct.
 
I'm not interested in putting a lift on my trail premium for at least 2 years because I want to see what the new 2018 4runner looks and performs like. I want to get bigger tires but really dont want to deal with any rubbing. Are there any alternatives to a lift that can be done that's relatively inexpensive and will prevent any rubbing on a stock trail premium?

I've seen variations of this questions so my apologies if it's been asked already.


I have rubbed exactly once with 275 K0'2 in 27,000 miles, steep off camber turn with four people and a bunch of weight in the back. I would just throw 275's on there and call it a day.
 

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