Spark Plug Grommet Torn During Installation? Still usable?

[atalarico]

Hey all,

It's been a long day of valve cover gasket replacement death march. I have two questions about the spark plug grommet installation process.

1.) How flush are they supposed to be with the inside of the valve cover? Some are completely flush and some are just a micron above flush. Keep pounding?

2.) On that note of pounding...I was using a 32mm impact socket to install the spark plug grommets. All of them went fine except for this one I'm attaching a photo of. I managed to tear a bit of the rubber...and I'm reallllly hoping I don't need to go get a new grommet and that I have to wait until Monday to do it because no dealership parts department is going to be open on a Sunday.

Thanks in advance! If anyone in Denver feels like lending a hand, holler!

Edited to add: I forgot to get new cam plug seals. Am I going to regret this? Can I just remove the existing seals and clean them off and apply another layer of FIPG and get by OK?

 

[atalarico]

Bump?

 

[area51]

You should be okay with that tear. You might want to cut that piece off in case it drops into the valve train area. The critical part is the inner seal that the boot is up against. I would be more concerned with cam plug seals. 4Runners are famous for oil leaking from those plug seals. I would purchase new cam plug seals and install them the right way. I know it is going to be another PITA, however you just did it so you should be a little better and have a bit more tolerance to it the second time around.

 

[atalarico]

You should be okay with that tear. You might want to cut that piece off in case it drops into the valve train area. The critical part is the inner seal that the boot is up against. I would be more concerned with cam plug seals. 4Runners are famous for oil leaking from those plug seals. I would purchase new cam plug seals and install them the right way. I know it is going to be another PITA, however you just did it so you should be a little better and have a bit more tolerance to it the second time around.

Well, that's good news and bad news. I'm wondering if I can't just leave it until Monday and go get the cam seals with a Car2Go or something. I could do everything else tomorrow that was getting done to the truck (oil change, etc.) and do a more thorough cleaning of the engine since I have an extra day to kill.

Or I could just put it back together tomorrow and drive to get the cam seals, and do it again. This really isn't a "two hour job" when done right though, and the amount of hoses and brittle plastic in the way is absurd.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[atalarico]

Does anyone think it would be good enough to just remove the cam seals, clean them, and apply FIPG to them? I don't have a way to get to the dealership parts department because this is my only car, and I *really* don't want to have to do this one again just to get at the cam seals.

Is there any way I can look around the outside of the cam seals area and check for signs of leaks and gauge whether or not they really do need replacement?

Also, is there any way parts can get delivered to my house locally from a dealership? Does NAPA stock things like this? They're a bit closer anyway.

Thanks for the help!

 

[bama16]

mine were all pretty flush but i had the blue felpro. As long as it seals around the tube the spark plug is in you should be ok. you can tell it's sealed when putting the valve cover back on. when i did mine, i didn't have the other pars. I checked for leaks and reinstalled. I figured that if it ever becomes an issues, the job isn't *too difficult.

 

[nissanh]

cam seals

Does anyone think it would be good enough to just remove the cam seals, clean them, and apply FIPG to them? I don't have a way to get to the dealership parts department because this is my only car, and I *really* don't want to have to do this one again just to get at the cam seals.

Is there any way I can look around the outside of the cam seals area and check for signs of leaks and gauge whether or not they really do need replacement?

Also, is there any way parts can get delivered to my house locally from a dealership? Does NAPA stock things like this? They're a bit closer anyway.

Thanks for the help!

Yeah I guess you should be ok if you get a good FIPG layer around the cam seals. I installed the valve cover gaskets, cam seals on Friday. I made a mistake by inserting the cam seals in the opposite direction. So far so good no leaks. I don't see a reason for it to leak if inserted in the opposite direction (opposite direction: metal faces the outside of the engine)

Did you by any chance get the spark plug tube seals inserted into the valve cover wrong side? I remember when I took the old seals off, the spring inside the seal was facing out-side of the engine.

 

[atalarico]

Yeah I guess you should be ok if you get a good FIPG layer around the cam seals. I installed the valve cover gaskets, cam seals on Friday. I made a mistake by inserting the cam seals in the opposite direction. So far so good no leaks. I don't see a reason for it to leak if inserted in the opposite direction (opposite direction: metal faces the outside of the engine)

Did you by any chance get the spark plug tube seals inserted into the valve cover wrong side? I remember when I took the old seals off, the spring inside the seal was facing out-side of the engine.

So, I only applied the FIPG on the cam seals where it was recommended on all of the other posts and my Haynes manual. They only tell you to apply the FIPG on the metal part that holds the cam seal in place, and I didn't see anywhere recommending to put it on the cam seal itself.

Another thing I noticed in your post that makes me wonder is about the orientation of the cup side of the cam seal. I put everything back the way I took it off, and I could have sworn that the inside of the cup of the cam seal definitely faced the engine. I'm looking at all of the pictures now and seeing that this is backwards and makes me wonder if someone has done this before on my truck and did it wrong! I basically just did what you did, I think. The description in the picture isn't super helpful because I don't know what they mean by "Facing the cup side inward". If they mean the inside of the cup, then Id it right. If they mean the bottom of the cup or outside of the cup, then I did it backwards. The picture itself makes it look like I did it backwards.

Ahhhhh I'm so frustrated now...I don't want to have to do this all over again. Sure, it'll only take a few hours this time, but god dammit all.

Also, if I have to go back in there and do the cam seals again, do I have to remove FIPG that I just applied a few days ago, or can I put a couple new dabs on there and it'll meld with the most recent stuff? If I have to remove it, is there an easier way to do that? I already had to fix one of half circle plugs after I applied the FIPG and it was such a pain to remove the new FIPG that was partially dried just to reapply it again.

I had a bit of white smoke from the engine since I did the fix, but it looked like it was caked up oil residue that I knocked loose during the job and it fell on to the exhaust manifold and is burning off now. I just did a longer road trip yesterday, so I'm going to go see if I can position a mirror to check on the cam seals.

 

[atalarico]

Actually, looking at other walkthroughs, I think I did it right.

Here's the one from Yota-Tech 5vzfe leaky valve covers fixed (56k beware) - Page 2 - YotaTech Forums

That's how I oriented mine. Looks like this guy either did it wrong too, or that diagram from Toyota sucks. Although, he says "always use a new cam plug", which I definitely didn't get...so there's that still. I'm still going to check for leaks. I feel like it would be evident after a 180 mile trip yesterday. I'm not sure why you'd need a new cam plug every time though. The thing seemed totally fine and snug still. Does anyone know where or why that cam plug would wear out? Maybe it's not flush with the engine block anymore and it sort of melts away because of the heat?

 

[atalarico]

...and to be clear, I'm pretty sure the leak on mine was the spark plug seals. I had oil in 3 of the 6 plug wells and plugs. So, hopefully the cam seals weren't the actual problem and I get away with not having to do this again.

Knowing my luck, they'll leak...and I'll be back at it again this weekend. ugh.

 

[LittleCaesar]

That pic is me, and since 2010 while using new cam plug seals, I have been leak free.

The rubber on the outside of the seal will become hard and brittle over time, ultimately shrinking just enough to possibly let some oil leak. It doesn't always occur but I like to mitigate chance to 0% occurrence.

If you can't get to the dealer for parts, order from Camelback or the like.

 

[atalarico]

That pic is me, and since 2010 while using new cam plug seals, I have been leak free.

The rubber on the outside of the seal will become hard and brittle over time, ultimately shrinking just enough to possibly let some oil leak. It doesn't always occur but I like to mitigate chance to 0% occurrence.

If you can't get to the dealer for parts, order from Camelback or the like.

Oh neat! I love the yota community!

So, I'm guessing the FSM diagram is just hard to tell which way the thing is oriented, or we all put it in wrong?

Good info on why the cam seal needs to get replaced due to shrinkage (I hate it when that happens). I'm going to go to the dealer and pick them up today and have them on hand if I discover a new leak and have some time.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[gamefreakgc]

I was hoping you were going to make some smart-aleck comment about the writeup being subpar or something (not that it is by any means, I've seen it) with LittleCaesar active on our forum . Too bad about Yotatech though, it used to be so active and had a lot of very knowledgeable Master Techs on there but it's slowly dying.

As long as it doesn't leak, you're good. That's what is important here. For future reference though, you cannot re-use FIPG. If you break the seal it must be removed and resealed.

 

[atalarico]

I was hoping you were going to make some smart-aleck comment about the writeup being subpar or something (not that it is by any means, I've seen it) with LittleCaesar active on our forum

As long as it doesn't leak, you're good. That's what is important here. For future reference though, you cannot re-use FIPG. If you break the seal it must be removed and resealed.

Haha, God no! It's a phenomenal write up and I wouldn't have been able to do the job without it! Honestly, I friggin love the real community here and I wish I was friends with more of you in real life.

Anyway, real question on the FIPG then, what's best method to remove it? When I had to redo the half moon, it was a bear to get all of the new stuff off! I also over applied it now that I look at the half moon FIPG recommendations now.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Haha, God no! It's a phenomenal write up and I wouldn't have been able to do the job without it! Honestly, I friggin love the real community here and I wish I was friends with more of you in real life.

Anyway, real question on the FIPG then, what's best method to remove it? When I had to redo the half moon, it was a bear to get all of the new stuff off! I also over applied it now that I look at the half moon FIPG recommendations now.

I removed it with a flat plastic surface (to prevent scoring). Anything will work really you just don't want to mess up the surface it is applied to. You've already removed some if you didn't know it, Toyota uses FIPG from the factory so when you cleaned off the cylinder head it probably just rubbed right off, it's easy to take off.

I wouldn't fret over using too much that time, it'll just bead up and eventually flush out of the engine. It's very soft so won't hurt nothing if it falls deep in the engine.

 

[atalarico]

I removed it with a flat plastic surface (to prevent scoring). Anything will work really you just don't want to mess up the surface it is applied to. You've already removed some if you didn't know it, Toyota uses FIPG from the factory so when you cleaned off the cylinder head it probably just rubbed right off, it's easy to take off.

I wouldn't fret over using too much that time, it'll just bead up and eventually flush out of the engine. It's very soft so won't hurt nothing if it falls deep in the engine.

Good and bad to know that I was doing it right then. It's bad to know because I was really hoping there was a magical solvent that I didn't have yet that would just melt the shit away. Yeah, I definitely put some pretty superficial scratches in some of the metal when I was trying to use a razorblade. Like I said though, they were superficial and none were deep enough to measure other than a micron level.

Live and learn!

 

[nissanh]

Don't worry about the direction of the cam seal. I did the wrong side getting the cup (metal surface facing the firewall). I looked at many JDM engines online and saw the cup (metal surface) faces inside the engine.
I did about 100 miles and no leaks.

The reason why you have to replace is the gasket like material can become harder and will not seal like it should leading to a leak. Since it is like $8 at Camelback I bought it and installed in the opposite direction.

 

[atalarico]

Don't worry about the direction of the cam seal. I did the wrong side getting the cup (metal surface facing the firewall). I looked at many JDM engines online and saw the cup (metal surface) faces inside the engine.
I did about 100 miles and no leaks.

The reason why you have to replace is the gasket like material can become harder and will not seal like it should leading to a leak. Since it is like $8 at Camelback I bought it and installed in the opposite direction.

Crap...then it is true. Ours are backwards! Glad to hear it's not as important though so long as the seal is made. I mean, all said and done now, it'll be a 4 hour job to do again knowing what I know now.

Oh and FWIW, if you guys have trouble removing the spark plug seals, I had the genius idea of (carefully) using a simply smaller pry bar. Worked like a charm, but you have to be sure to not scratch the surfaces.