Starter Issues that I can't figure out

[weekendclimber]

So, had the dreaded "click, click" over the weekend and had to have a tow home. It's been a long time since she's stranded me and this time I'm stumped. While I was waiting for the tow truck, I ordered new starter contacts as I was certain this was the issue. Got them installed last night, but still only a "click, click" when I try to turn it over.

So, the troubleshooting begins. While I was working on getting the starter contacts changed out, I had the starter battery on a charger to rule out a bad battery. The charger tells me that the battery is good. I took the starter back out and did some testing with the battery:

1. Connected the positive of the battery to the starter motor terminal (not the normal post, but the one that comes out on the opposite side and would essentially bypass the contacts I just replaced). When I grounded the outside of the starter case, the motor spins.
2. Connected the positive side of the battery to the normal terminal. I grounded the outside of the case and then manually pushed the plunger down. The starter motor spins just fine in this case.
3. Connected a small wire to the plug on the solenoid that triggers the plunger to make contact. When I ground the outside of the case, the plunger gets pulled in to make contact with the starter contacts.
4. I hooked the battery back up and checked with a test light that I was getting power. Also showed 12+ volts with the multimeter.
5. Finally, I checked several spots around the starter to make sure I had a good ground. Also checked my engine ground under the oil filter and that looked good as well.

I was thinking after installing the new contacts and still get the "click, click" that maybe the starter motor had gone bad, but it seems the bench testing confirms that it's still spinning. When I try to turn it over when it's installed though, I don't hear it spinning at all.

I'm kind of stumped on this one.:ybrick:

 

[weekendclimber]

Looking at the diagnostics, I've pretty much covered the starter tests and everything is working as expected:

I've not done the tests to the relay, but I would think I wouldn't be hearing the "click, click" when I try to turn the engine over if it was the ignition switch or the starter relay. I'll check that to confirm later tonight that I'm getting power to the solenoid on the starter:

I've also confirmed that I've got connectivity from the battery terminal to the starter (Black-Blue wire: B-L) and a good ground:

I think I'll go over it all again this evening to double-check myself, but it totally perplexes me as to what's going on. This is a pretty simple system it seems to me, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

 

[weekendclimber]

Plan right now is to go through all the electrical to triple check that my ground is good, the starter relay is sending power to the solenoid when the ignition switch is turned on, and that I indeed have power from the battery. Tomorrow morning I've got a rebuilt Denso coming to my local Napa and I'll throw that in after work. Sucks being down to one car with the wife and kiddo needing it during the day #firstworldproblems

 

[pdaddy]

You can also try to check voltage at the starter while having someone try to crank it over. If voltage nosedives, you've got a problem with either the battery or cables.

 

[spartacus]

This thread might help
Electrical problems/Starting issue.

 

[weekendclimber]

Went through and checked all the grounds and that I had 12+ volts at the starter from the battery. Had the wife attempt to start it while checking the wire from the starter relay to the starter and was getting 12+ volts on that. That confirms the starter relay is good. It seems to me it's an internal issue with the starter other than the contacts, which seems counterintuitive since it passed all the tests from the FSM

The post that [MENTION=50279]spartacus[/MENTION] gave is interesting in that the you can shift to neutral and try starting it. The full wiring diagram for the starter system would indicate that the starter relay wouldn't be functioning if that was defective, so I think I can rule that out. Good post though!

 

[weekendclimber]

You can also try to check voltage at the starter while having someone try to crank it over. If voltage nosedives, you've got a problem with either the battery or cables.

I was initially thinking this as well, but I've got dual batteries and even with them linked or when trying to jump it from another car it still wouldn't turn over.

 

[Bill Bachman]

Windings in the solenoid defective. You can manually push plunger and it spins, but not with solenoid.

 

[weekendclimber]

Just for posterity, I also found this resource from another thread for potentially bypassing different systems in order to get the starter to fire if you end up stranded:

Toyota/Chrysler/Mitsubishi - Nippon Denso Starter Solenoid Repair

 

[weekendclimber]

Windings in the solenoid defective. You can manually push plunger and it spins, but not with solenoid.

This is what I was thinking as well. Also, I noticed that the wires coming up out of the motor into the the solenoid where the contacts were located are a little janky as well. I'm thinking that something has come loose in there. It's odd that I can still hear the "click" when I try to turn it over thought. I would have thought it would be nothing. Isn't the "click" sound the plunger making contact with the contacts?

 

[Bill Bachman]

It is the sound of the plunger being pulled in . Since you manually activated it, it would be more like the solenoid winding are fubar, possible shorted. Seems that way to me anyway.Good luck

 

[weekendclimber]

It is the sound of the plunger being pulled in . Since you manually activated it, it would be more like the solenoid winding are fubar, possible shorted. Seems that way to me anyway.Good luck

Thanks! This is the conclusion I've arrived at. I'm going to keep the old starter and tear it apart rather than turn it in for a core. I'm befuddled as to what happened and would like to eventually rebuild it.

 

[weekendclimber]

:brick: :brick: :brick:

New starter in tonight, and same issue!! Started working up stream and checked the starter relay and am getting 72.1 ohms across pin 1 & 2. Tried jumping 3 & 5 with a wire and get the "click" from the solenoid with no turn over from the starter motor. Rechecked all the grounds and continuity and all checked out good. Pulled all the amp, inverter, and accessory wiring in anticipation of taking it to the dealership if needed:-\ I am going to leave the battery on the charger overnight and will also take it in to have it load tested tomorrow during the day. I don't believe it's the battery as when it all started on Saturday night, even trying to get a jump would not get it turned over, nor does joining the secondary battery. Going to double check that anyway to eliminate that possibility. I feel like I'm missing something really simple.

 

[MaineRunna]

:brick: :brick: :brick:

New starter in tonight, and same issue!! Started working up stream and checked the starter relay and am getting 72.1 ohms across pin 1 & 2. Tried jumping 3 & 5 with a wire and get the "click" from the solenoid with no turn over from the starter motor. Rechecked all the grounds and continuity and all checked out good. Pulled all the amp, inverter, and accessory wiring in anticipation of taking it to the dealership if needed:-\ I am going to leave the battery on the charger overnight and will also take it in to have it load tested tomorrow during the day. I don't believe it's the battery as when it all started on Saturday night, even trying to get a jump would not get it turned over, nor does joining the secondary battery. Going to double check that anyway to eliminate that possibility. I feel like I'm missing something really simple.

Have you checked to make sure the engine turns over? Maybe a head gasket blew and filled a cylinder with coolant and it's hydro-locked. Maybe the water pump or one of the accessories seized up and is locking up the engine. If the engine won't turn over you will definitely get a loud click when the starter engages the flywheel but can't turn it.

 

[weekendclimber]

Have you checked to make sure the engine turns over? Maybe a head gasket blew and filled a cylinder with coolant and it's hydro-locked. Maybe the water pump or one of the accessories seized up and is locking up the engine. If the engine won't turn over you will definitely get a loud click when the starter engages the flywheel but can't turn it.

This occurred to me last night after I headed to bed and I'd hate to think this was the problem, but I'm going to check tonight to make sure. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[weekendclimber]

Here's a dumb question (I feel like I should know this): which direction should I turn the crank bolt? I think it's clockwise, but just want to confirm.

 

[Bad Luck]

Clockwise as you look at it from the front of the vehicle. (Counter-clockwise if you are in the driver seat.)

 

[weekendclimber]

Clockwise as you look at it from the front of the vehicle. (Counter-clockwise if you are in the driver seat.)

Thanks for the confirmation! Cheers :cheers:

 

[weekendclimber]

Just had the battery checked at the local auto store (thanks to my amazing wife!!) and it checked out good. This is not looking like the outcome that I wanted. Seems odd that I really didn't have any warning if it's something like an accessory pulley or a bad HG. I'll find out tonight whether I can manually turn it over :ybrick:

 

[Bad Luck]

You're welcome. Did you check the resistance in the power wire to the starter? I remember seeing that you checked some wiring but can't recall what you checked for wiring wise. Good luck!